Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 21 to 28 of 28

Thread: Minnesota State Basketball

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Fargo
    Posts
    7,728

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Powder View Post
    One more thing to add to my previous post. When calculating the enrollment numbers, adjustments are made for the number of kids in the free-and-reduced lunch program. The MSHSL won't come out and say it in so many words but the premise is that kids that come from low income families are less likely to be involved in extra curricular activities so it lowers the number of kids available to go out for a team. If you read between the lines it's a way to try and have the private schools in a higher class than public schools with a similar number of kids.
    Boys or girls only schools also have to have their enrollment figure doubled so they are classed properly. You are right about the free lunch adjustments. If a school has more than 50% of its student in the free lunch program, it can petition to be dropped a class on athletics. There haven't been a whole lot of cases where the dropping a class has resulted in an unfair advantage for the larger school, so there is obviously some merit behind the process whether they want to come right and say it or not. There will always be an exception though.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Fargo
    Posts
    7,728

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by natstar1 View Post
    This was brought up earlier in the thread, but does anyone know how North can keep their enrollment so low? They're just crushing at A.
    Part of the answer is there has been a concerted effort over the years to break up the school to create more diversity in other schools in the area.

  3. #23
    mtoutfitter's Avatar
    mtoutfitter is online now Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Terry, Mt
    Posts
    3,720

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by natstar1 View Post
    This was brought up earlier in the thread, but does anyone know how North can keep their enrollment so low? They're just crushing at A.
    Enrollment is probably reported when "it's not Basketball season"......most "students" are probably just hanging in the hood then.
    Life is tough, but it's even tougher if you're stupid.......John Wayne

    /End Lakes. Roll Herd!

  4. #24
    natstar1's Avatar
    natstar1 is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,806

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by td577 View Post
    Boys or girls only schools also have to have their enrollment figure doubled so they are classed properly. You are right about the free lunch adjustments. If a school has more than 50% of its student in the free lunch program, it can petition to be dropped a class on athletics. There haven't been a whole lot of cases where the dropping a class has resulted in an unfair advantage for the larger school, so there is obviously some merit behind the process whether they want to come right and say it or not. There will always be an exception though.
    You sure about the doubling of enrollments for all girls or boys schools, at least for MN? I know it makes sense, but I had a very good source tell me that wasn't the case.

    Pretty sure your F&R meals take is incorrect. I think they take your actual enrollment and the number of kids on F&R meals, stuff it into a formula and it spits out an adjusted enrollment number. The classifications are based on that adjustment enrollment number.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Fargo
    Posts
    7,728

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by natstar1 View Post
    You sure about the doubling of enrollments for all girls or boys schools, at least for MN? I know it makes sense, but I had a very good source tell me that wasn't the case.

    Pretty sure your F&R meals take is incorrect. I think they take your actual enrollment and the number of kids on F&R meals, stuff it into a formula and it spits out an adjusted enrollment number. The classifications are based on that adjustment enrollment number.
    Drawn from this:

    2016-2017 MSHSL OFFICIAL HANDBOOK 400.00 Bylaws: Administration of Athletic Programs
    400.00
    ADMINISTRATION OF
    ATHLETIC PROGRAM BYLAWS

    c) Enrollments for classification shall be determined every even-numbered year by the Board of Directors using the most current
    MARRS Report to the Minnesota Department of Education (MDE) for grades 9, 10, 11 and 12. From those enrollment
    numbers the Board of Directors shall subtract 40 percent of the free/reduced lunch count reported to the MDE for each
    school for the same time period.

    e) Schools which have all male or all female students shall have their enrollments doubled.

    h) Prior to any classification determination, schools who believe their school demographics unfairly place their team sports
    (Football, Hockey, Basketball, Baseball, Lacrosse, Soccer, Softball, and Volleyball) in a larger tournament classification may
    appeal their placement to the MSHSL office provided that the criteria below is met:
    1.1 The schools’ free/reduced lunch counts provided to the League office by the Department of Education exceeds 50% of
    the school’s grade 9-12 enrollment
    .

    So according to rule c., yes the free/reduced lunch students already have an effect on the enrollment number reported by reducing the reported enrollment by 40% of the free/reduced lunch count. So if a school has 50 kids in the free/reduced lunch program, they can report 20 less students in the enrollment figures.

    According to rule h., if a school has more than 1/2 of their students on the free/reduced lunch count, they can appeal to be dropped a class regardless of their enrollment in those sports, which includes BB. There are a couple of schools in hockey, for example, that I know of for sure that have opted down by the only way you could opt down with the 50% rule c. These are schools with enrollments of like 2000 and even if all of them were of the free/reduced lunch program, they would still meet the enrollment numbers for the higher classification.

    Here is the handbook: http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/Publicati...0%20Bylaws.pdf

  6. #26
    natstar1's Avatar
    natstar1 is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    4,806

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Thanks. I questioned myself when disputing your facts since you're posts are well thought out and accurate.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    29,295

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Some amazing basketball players here, yet NDSU only has 1 recruit outta Minneapolis. a Dam shame.
    NDSU TO FBS. HAVEN'T WE WON ENOUGH?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    West Fargo
    Posts
    7,728

    Default Re: Minnesota State Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by natstar1 View Post
    Thanks. I questioned myself when disputing your facts since you're posts are well thought out and accurate.
    Yeah, don't question me.

    Seriously, while I had read the stuff about opting down before and the alll boys/girls schools, I missed the 40% count. So we were both right and both learned something. Win/win.

    Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •