A new and better FBS thread

[MNLonghorn10]

well 2 years ago they were ranked #16 nationally.... this year the MAC records are not good.
NDSU would be walking away with the league. Toledo/Bowling Green arent too bad

Mid-American StandingsEAST CONF OVERALL
* - Bowling Green 4-1 6-3
Akron 2-3 4-5
Ohio 2-3 4-5
x - Massachusetts 2-3 2-7
x - Miami (OH) 2-4 2-8
Buffalo 1-3 3-5
x - Kent State 0-5 1-8
WEST CONF OVERALL
* - Toledo 5-0 6-3
* - Western Michigan 4-1 6-3
* - Northern Illinois 3-1 6-2
* - Central Michigan 4-2 6-4
Ball State 2-2 3-5
x - Eastern Michigan 1-4 2-7

Wow. Look at that murderous schedule. pj fleck coming to Fargo??? That demand for a ticket would be insane

[El_Chapo]

IF WE JOIN THE MAC...>WE CAN STAY IN THE DOME.

IF WE JOIN THE MWC WE NEED A NEW STADIUM.

its that simple

[NorthernBison]

Good thing there's others ranked higher then. Man that'd be fun.

You saw how stale the dome has become for the mvfc.

This team needs new blood

You have it backwards. Our schedule NOW is against higher ranked teams than we would face on the MAC.

The new blood would be bigger walkovers than we are seeing now. Not interested in the MAC competition.

[MNLonghorn10]

You have it backwards. Our schedule NOW is against higher ranked teams than we would face on the MAC.

The new blood would be bigger walkovers than we are seeing now. Not interested in the MAC competition.

This is just an anomaly. Not every year is the mvfc going to be better than the mac. Besides a lot of that has to do with ndsu.


The valley without the ndsu I bet drops off a lot

[td577]

IF WE JOIN THE MAC...>WE CAN STAY IN THE DOME.

IF WE JOIN THE MWC WE NEED A NEW STADIUM.

its that simple

If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

[Bisonville GasMan]

If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

^^^^^^^^^^I support this post.^^^^^^^^^^

[NorthernBison]

This is just an anomaly. Not every year is the mvfc going to be better than the mac. Besides a lot of that has to do with ndsu.


The valley without the ndsu I bet drops off a lot

It actually doesn't. I think it was Audit that posted the numbers if NDSU was replaced with an average FCS team. Still better than the MAC.

[The_Sicatoka]

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

This sounds an awful lot like what Nick Saban and Karl Benson (Sun Belt commish) were talking about not all that long ago. Saban said something like the top 80 or so should play each other and be at one level (think: P5). Benson then said that the "next 5 conferences" (G5) would be the next level and that's where the SBC would be; but, there'd only be about 40 or so of them after reformation of FBS. The G5 would need 40 or so from FCS to make that new tier.

I believed it then; I still believe it; but, I also wonder how this 12 year television deal (four team playoff) will affect timetables.

[missingnumber7]

If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

Great post.

Some things I am curious about:
How the Longhorn Network plays into anyones desire of Texas and how it could skew possible TV deals for any potential moves for Texas, it has already ruined the potential for a Big12 network.
Independants and their power...ok so only Notre Dame, but BYU thinks they are on the same level.
With 80 top tier teams, a 4 or 8 team playoff is not going to make people happy, I think you are looking at something closer to a 20 team playoff that includes 20% of the teams, and covers game throughout December, filling ESPN Tv slots.
Does the P5/G5 relationship stay the same scholarship # wise or do they try to introduce a wider gap. I would argue that you could keep the same # scholarships and introduce reasons for teams to move up/down such as not meeting minimum requirements, moving teams that have a sustained level of quality play up, ect ect...I think that opens up a system similar to what the euro sports leagues use.
How does this shake out for FCS schools that A)don't fully fund FB and B)don't offer FB scholarships.

[td577]

This sounds an awful lot like what Nick Saban and Karl Benson (Sun Belt commish) were talking about not all that long ago. Saban said something like the top 80 or so should play each other and be at one level (think: P5). Benson then said that the "next 5 conferences" (G5) would be the next level and that's where the SBC would be; but, there'd only be about 40 or so of them after reformation of FBS. The G5 would need 40 or so from FCS to make that new tier.

I believed it then; I still believe it; but, I also wonder how this 12 year television deal (four team playoff) will affect timetables.

I don't think the television deal affects the timetable, at all. ESPN is the one with the deal and the one with the most to gain to break the deal and write up a new one. If you look at every television deal that doesn't look like it favors a P5 division setup is pretty much owned or majority owned by ESPN. The Big 12 screwed up by letting individual schools negotiate their own tier 3 contracts, but the schools that have the Big 12 bent over are Texas and OU which ESPN are majority owner's of their networks. The Big 12 wants nothing more then to tear up those papers, start over, and have a conference network with the numbers like the Big 10 or SEC contracts. It is because of having no conference network the other 8 schools are in no position to add anyone else to share the pot. So it is in everyone's best interest now if OU and Texas leave for the SEC or blow up their TV deals. They don't have leverage anymore. The Big 12 wants to get out from underneath them and create their own huge conference network deal. The only other deal that has any impact is the Kansas basketball network and they stand to gain a lot more money if they abandon that and get into a conference network. Everything is in place for a shakeup anytime ESPN is willing to support it. Everybody except the Big 12 is about 90% up and ready for a shakeup. In fact, I would say the other four conferences are being pretty nice about holding on to the Big 12 as being relevant.

If there is a shakeup and a P5 split from everyone else, it isn't going to be 12 years from now. It is going to be sometime in the next five years. There is too much money to be had out there and they don't want to share the part they create. There isn't much fear for the next level because there is a lot of money out there for them, as well. People can't get enough of college football. In fact, it will help everyone that it is better defined. I believe the only thing slowing the P5 movement down is the Big 12. Everything they have done is messed up and it needs to be cleaned up to move forward. Texas and OU either need to let the conference look like the other conferences or get out of the way. Either way, they have to give up their own networks.