Pathways to Student Success

[Tatanka]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article...41/group/News/

Very interesting facts from this article:

If the admission proposal were to go through, 1900 freshmen that enrolled at NDSU (41%) and UND (46%) would not be eligible for admission.

In 2006, 41% of the freshmen at UND and 36% of the freshmen at NDSU would not have been eligible under the new standard.

The index used for the standard is based on a combination of Hs gpa, core courses, and college entrance exam scores.

It is worthy of mention that the standard is the same for NDSU and UND. That, and the numbers above, would tend to counter the myth that NDSU students are somehow inferior to those up north... Will be interesting to see how this gets spun....



Sent from somewhere using my Windows phone.

[Hansel]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article...41/group/News/

Very interesting facts from this article:

If the admission proposal were to go through, 1900 freshmen that enrolled at NDSU (41%) and UND (46%) would not be eligible for admission.

In 2006, 41% of the freshmen at UND and 36% of the freshmen at NDSU would not have been eligible under the new standard.

The index used for the standard is based on a combination of Hs gpa, core courses, and college entrance exam scores.

It is worthy of mention that the standard is the same for NDSU and UND. That, and the numbers above, would tend to counter the myth that NDSU students are somehow inferior to those up north... Will be interesting to see how this gets spun....



Sent from somewhere using my Windows phone.

NDSU's incoming classes have had slightly better metrics for at least 3-5 years, contrary to popular belief in the land of make believe.

[bisonaudit]

It all depends how this is implemented and how far below this bar incoming students actually are, today. If these standards drive the right combination of high school kids taking the right courses and getting prepared, as well as identifying and promoting the right 2 year schools to transition kids to one of the research Universities it could be a very good thing for everyone.

[Tatanka]

It all depends how this is implemented and how far below this bar incoming students actually are, today. If these standards drive the right combination of high school kids taking the right courses and getting prepared, as well as identifying and promoting the right 2 year schools to transition kids to one of the research Universities it could be a very good thing for everyone.

Absolutely agree. First and foremost this is a reflection of the state of k-12, and in the long run this could be a very good thing. Increasing the readiness of incoming students should lead to an increase in retention and graduation rates.

And Hansel, we're thinking very much alike. It would be interesting, especially since we now have comparative data on incoming students in 2006, to examine four-year graduation rates for the same era to see if there's a correlation. You know, some basic investigative reporting and analysis.

We already know another data point, and that's the disparity between funding levels for the two schools...

[BisonEngrGirl]

What is the positive side of restricting enrollment? I don't feel my education was devalued because there were dumb people in class. Either you can handle it, or you can't. I didn't have good math education in hs, but did good on my ACT and ended up getting an engineering degree. So it's not always possible to "prepare" adequately, but that doesn't mean you won't be successful.

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[bisonaudit]

What is the positive side of restricting enrollment? I don't feel my education was devalued because there were dumb people in class. Either you can handle it, or you can't. I didn't have good math education in hs, but did good on my ACT and ended up getting an engineering degree. So it's not always possible to "prepare" adequately, but that doesn't mean you won't be successful.

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NDSU dedicates resources every semester to no credit classes to get admitted students up to snuff. Move that to JuCo or community college. I personally know several extremely successful people who started their post secondary education at a 2 year school, transferred to a research university finished their undergrad and then went on to graduate or professional school. If your ACT is good enough you'll still get in anyway. It's not like they're moving to Ivy League standards or anything crazy.

If they bump it up a little bit it could drag K-12 quality up and it may help allocate resources on both research and 2 year campuses more efficiently.

[Hammersmith]

God I hope they don't dumb down the new standards. Kids coming up through the area K-12 system need a serious b**chslap. They slide by with the minimum of work(many cases far less than that) and squeak though graduation. Thanks to NDSU's & UND's standards being so low, graduating HS in ND basically qualifies you for admission. That's not right. It gives a false sense of readiness for the kids who think college will be just like high school. They need to realize that just graduating isn't enough; they have to do more than the minimum to be ready. I'm really frustrated that only a single public high school on the ND side of the metro has decent rigor among its students(Fargo North). The rest are just horrible. All those kids need a serious wake up call.

Tom Gravel* explained it much more politely in his letter to the Forum/GFH:

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/421218/

I've had a rough day with 10th graders, so I'm not nearly so polite at the moment.



*currently the principal at WF Community High, was principal at DGF before that, and was mainly responsible for changing Wahp Wops to Wahp Huskies back when he was the FB coach there

[Rockbear99]

I went to Lake Region in Devils Lake and found it easier than High School. Well that is after the first year was done and I got the taste of freedom out of my system.

[1998braves64]

I went to NDSU for one year before transferring out it wasn't because it was too hard or wasn't making the grades... I was pulling down As and Bs with minimal (at least in my mind) effort. The thing that got me was no interest in the program I was in, and what I lacked was knowing what other career paths I could have or even having an interest in. I loved drafting in HS so went to NDSCS for architectural drafting. Was not really intrigued by architecture at NDSU. Looking back probably would have liked construction management or engineering... Or business administration. Enjoyed going to school at NDSU and don't regret it at all. I think the prepping kids needs to be more career orientation than academic... If a kid is interested enough they will do whatever it takes to do that.

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[MAKBison]

ND higher ed needs an entire restructuring and yes some of the colleges need to go----way too many state funded institutions


You keep the following
NDSU- BS, MS Ph.D---all BS programs support landgrant and all other profession other than Law, Medical and Aeronautics (for the BS degree only 10% of the universities new enrollments can be admitted with a GPA under 3.0)
UNnoD- BS MS Ph.d-- All grad and Ugrad programs support law, aeronautics and Med school degrees (for the BS degree only 10% of the universities new enrollment can be admitted with a GPA under 3.0)
Minot- BS only---feeds both UNnoD and NDSU (for the BS degree only 10 of the universities new enrollment can be admitted with a GPA under 2.0)
Wil.- CC
BisM.- CC
DL- CC
Whap.- Votech