SI investigative report on OK ST football...

[tony]

Yahoo has a story now about improper benefits for 5 SEC players, also completely unsurprising. When are these stories going to stop being about the players and start being about the NCAA and it's stupid rules that make criminals out of kids instead of the cartel exploiting them.

The only reason that this is coming up is that the TV contracts are so big. If the TV contracts weren't huge, then there would be no talk about exploitation. Yeah, the member schools make buttloads of money of those TV contracts but the member schools also heavily subsidize the operations of the athletic department so it's not like we're talking about a lack of profit-sharing.

If you want full-on capitalism where boosters can hand kids $100k and new cars, then it's time to go the full monte and sever all financial and institutional ties between athletic departments and the public universities that host them. And it's also time to have the IRS crawling up these kids asses because it's one thing to say "It's the NCAA's fault for enforcing the rules that its members created" and it's a whole different animal to not report income for taxation.

If you're going to go the pro route with college athletics, then that should be the end college athletics. Public colleges weren't created to host professional franchises.

[bisonaudit]

The only reason that this is coming up is that the TV contracts are so big. If the TV contracts weren't huge, then there would be no talk about exploitation. Yeah, the member schools make buttloads of money of those TV contracts but the member schools also heavily subsidize the operations of the athletic department so it's not like we're talking about a lack of profit-sharing.

If you want full-on capitalism where boosters can hand kids $100k and new cars, then it's time to go the full monte and sever all financial and institutional ties between athletic departments and the public universities that host them. And it's also time to have the IRS crawling up these kids asses because it's one thing to say "It's the NCAA's fault for enforcing the rules that its members created" and it's a whole different animal to not report income for taxation.

If you're going to go the pro route with college athletics, then that should be the end college athletics. Public colleges weren't created to host professional franchises.

As soon as it's not against the NCAA rules to get paid for your work the IRS issue disappears because there's no longer additional incentives to not report the income.

[Mayville Bison]

As soon as it's not against the NCAA rules to get paid for your work the IRS issue disappears because there's no longer additional incentives to not report the income.

You seriously don't think that change is going to stop more behind the scene "gifts", do you? Even if they are allowed to pay a "student" $xk/year, boosters will still work to get the top recruits to their school. I think Tony's right where if you start going down that slope, you need to turn college football and basketball into a minor league system like baseball has. And if you do that, these sports will lose a lot of the appeal that's currently making them billions of dollars right now.

Something needs to change in the world of major college sports, but I don't know that a workable system has been established that benefits both the "students" and also creates a ton of cash flowing around.

[tony]

As soon as it's not against the NCAA rules to get paid for your work the IRS issue disappears because there's no longer additional incentives to not report the income.

That might makes sense if the IRS reported who pays taxes on what income. Besides, I don't think that citing an NCAA rule is a legal or ethical defense for violating federal law.

Go the professional route and I think that the BCS football players' scholarships should be considered taxable income. Donations to the athletic department should no longer be considered charitable contributions. Athletic departments should also get everything that goes with running a professional franchise: FICA match, medicare match, unemployment insurance, Workers Comp, and a corporate income tax. Moreover, players will end up filing income tax returns in every state they play games in.

[bisonaudit]

You seriously don't think that change is going to stop more behind the scene "gifts", do you? Even if they are allowed to pay a "student" $xk/year, boosters will still work to get the top recruits to their school. I think Tony's right where if you start going down that slope, you need to turn college football and basketball into a minor league system like baseball has. And if you do that, these sports will lose a lot of the appeal that's currently making them billions of dollars right now.

Something needs to change in the world of major college sports, but I don't know that a workable system has been established that benefits both the "students" and also creates a ton of cash flowing around.

I don't think you can argue both the "well the booster are going to keep cheating anyway" line of reasoning and the "it's just going to be minor league, what's the appeal?" line of reasoning at the same time. Pick one. They're mutually exclusive.

As long as we insist that they're students instead of employees, we're never going to get to a viable answer.

All of the pro leagues have salary caps. No one has tried to cheat on player compensation since the Minnesota Timberwolves.

I'm all for going down the slope toward treating these employees better. And I disagree on the booster gifts. Most of them would love to have all of that junk above board. Spin the team off into a for profit corporation owned by the university for a start. Then when T. Boone Picken's isn't getting a tax break for his zillion dollar stadium maybe he'll decide to buy the team from the state of Oklahoma instead. Privatize those assets. What could be more American.

The relationship between the athletic departments and the universities is already just a marketing relationship now. It can continue to be that and the players can get compensated.

[Mayville Bison]

I don't think you can argue both the "well the booster are going to keep cheating anyway" line of reasoning and the "it's just going to be minor league, what's the appeal?" line of reasoning at the same time. Pick one. They're mutually exclusive.

As long as we insist that they're students instead of employees, we're never going to get to a viable answer.

All of the pro leagues have salary caps. No one has tried to cheat on player compensation since the Minnesota Timberwolves.

I'm all for going down the slope toward treating these employees better. And I disagree on the booster gifts. Most of them would love to have all of that junk above board. Spin the team off into a for profit corporation owned by the university for a start. Then when T. Boone Picken's isn't getting a tax break for his zillion dollar stadium maybe he'll decide to buy the team from the state of Oklahoma instead. Privatize those assets. What could be more American.

The relationship between the athletic departments and the universities is already just a marketing relationship now. It can continue to be that and the players can get compensated.

Sure you can do both. Many people simply don't want to believe that college athletes are getting paid because it's against the rules. I was naive at one time, too.

As for the rest, it all depends on how everything is developed and each system has it's flaws. MLB doesn't have a true cap and small market teams have no shot (hopefully the Pirates win this year). NFL is all about spreading the wealth - not likely going to happen here as the big conferences don't want to share as it is and that will only get worse (do you think the SEC wants to share their recruits with the B1G?). NBA is all about expiring contracts, so it might work with the whole eligibility thing, but I don't think you can compare a roster of 12 with 85.

Will something come out that works? I hope so. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy FCS football for what it is and continue to believe that only FBS schools are giving under-the-table gifts.

[bisonaudit]

That might makes sense if the IRS reported who pays taxes on what income. Besides, I don't think that citing an NCAA rule is a legal or ethical defense for violating federal law.

Go the professional route and I think that the BCS football players' scholarships should be considered taxable income. Donations to the athletic department should no longer be considered charitable contributions. Athletic departments should also get everything that goes with running a professional franchise: FICA match, medicare match, unemployment insurance, Workers Comp, and a corporate income tax. Moreover, players will end up filing income tax returns in every state they play games in.

If players are getting paid by boosters or Universities today. They have an IRS problem today. If it weren't against NCAA regulations to pay these guys, their income wouldn't be illicit and there would be no reason to not report it. They'd be employees and they and their employer would be subject to the full suite of reporting requirements that exist for the rest of us already. I'm not sure what the treatment of their scholarship's would be. I don't think academic scholarships are treated as income, but if the athletic department is severed from the University maybe you get a different answer? I think that the tax favored status of donations to Universities is dubious to begin with, certainly for athletic departments, so I'm not going to get exercised over that tax break going away. Yes, these athletic departments are going to have employees which means they'll have to comply with the payroll tax rules and their employees will have to file tax returns where they work. These are not reasons not to do what is right.

[NorthernBison]

Yahoo has a story now about improper benefits for 5 SEC players, also completely unsurprising. When are these stories going to stop being about the players and start being about the NCAA and it's stupid rules that make criminals out of kids instead of the cartel exploiting them.

Don't forget the dirty NFL's intrusion into College football. It's their rule that athletes can't play in the NFL until their graduating class has been out of high school for 3 years. They are nearly as complicit in the exploitation as the NCAA.

[bisonaudit]

Don't forget the dirty NFL's intrusion into College football. It's their rule that athletes can't play in the NFL until their graduating class has been out of high school for 3 years. They are nearly as complicit in the exploitation as the NCAA.

I guess that makes it OK then.

But seriously, this is another problem that solves itself once you stop treating college football players like indentured servants. At that point, if they keep such a rule, is it really any worse than the current CBA which artificially holds down the wages of new union members?

[NorthernBison]

Overall, do major college Athletic Departments MAKE huge profits? Outside of football and men's basketball most sports are money pits. What has to give?

If there is not profit there, then the pot of money must grow if some athletes are going to get paid. Maybe there are many boosters out there waiting for the OK to throw money at players.