ND Higher Education just got interesting

[Vet70]

What saddens me more is the ignorance of the people who willfully elect them

Don't blame me, I voted for Henry.

[The_Sicatoka]

My point was:
As much as you folks like to chirp about online students, compared to UND more of NDSU's students have taken an online class.

Does UND have far more online only students? I already said yes.
It probably comes with supporting accredited online engineering programs and teachers and nurses looking to advance while living in remote areas.

What I do wish the NDUS would publish is the actual online course credit hours also.
UND would more than likely have the larger number there (see above), but it would be interesting to see the breakdown behind the "on campus but takes at least one online course" information.

[Bison bison]

We don't chirp. We bitch.

We bitch about inequitable funding.
We bitch about inefficiency.
We bitch about hypocrisy.

NDSU does more with less. Deal with it.

[StL Bison Fan]

Listening to kfgo. If you graduate from Williston high you can go to the college in Williston for free for 2 years.
Although I like the idea, I haven't heard anyone complaining about that. Let's see, which legislator is from there? Hmmmmm

[Bison"FANatic"]

Listening to kfgo. If you graduate from Williston high you can go to the college in Williston for free for 2 years.
Although I like the idea, I haven't heard anyone complaining about that. Let's see, which legislator is from there? Hmmmmm

You might want to dig on how it is funded before slamming it. NDSU has used some of the same programs for scholarship matches.

[NDSUstudent]

Listening to kfgo. If you graduate from Williston high you can go to the college in Williston for free for 2 years.
Although I like the idea, I haven't heard anyone complaining about that. Let's see, which legislator is from there? Hmmmmm

Skarphol U can do whatever they want.

[StL Bison Fan]

You might want to dig on how it is funded before slamming it. NDSU has used some of the same programs for scholarship matches.

You notice I said I approve, I also approve of waivers as I understand how universities work and have benefited from them.
What I'm saying is this has been off my radar and no one seems to take issue with this as they have some other programs. You can bet that if ndsu had some connection with it there would be griping

[tony]

Does UND have far more online only students? I already said yes.
It probably comes with supporting accredited online engineering programs and teachers and nurses looking to advance while living in remote areas.

If you did an audit of your engineering programs, you'd probably find out that average age of the online engineering student was over 30 and they live in a remote area called California. I remember a UND press release talking about their great online nursing program - the success story they bragged on involved somebody living in the state of Washington.

As usual, you miss the obvious point. Taking online classes is not the problem. The problem is that UND (and every other institution in the NDUS) is getting rewarded for providing online education for people who will never set foot in North Dakota. Rewarded with tons of money from the state. Rewarded with infrastructure they don't need. Rewarded with headcounts that do not seem to have much connection to the number of degrees or credits granted.

Meanwhile, NDSU is criticized for bringing Minnesota kids to North Dakota when those are exactly the kinds of people North Dakota needs. NDSU is also criticized for tuition waivers that are measured in the tens of millions when the research activity they support is measured in the hundreds of millions. Well, congrats for not using tuition waivers as much as NDSU - too bad you are doing about 1/3 the research. I guess Bob Skarphol thinks that North Dakota needs a University of Phoenix competitor.

[Hammersmith]

My point was:
As much as you folks like to chirp about online students, compared to UND more of NDSU's students have taken an online class.

Does UND have far more online only students? I already said yes.
It probably comes with supporting accredited online engineering programs and teachers and nurses looking to advance while living in remote areas.

What I do wish the NDUS would publish is the actual online course credit hours also.
UND would more than likely have the larger number there (see above), but it would be interesting to see the breakdown behind the "on campus but takes at least one online course" information.

You posted a pile of rubbish, what do you expect would happen? We don't have a problem with online classes, we have a problem with online students. You know, the type that never set foot in the state. You tried to insinuate that NDSU has a bunch of students that are 99% online and only take a single credit on-campus course. You have zero facts to back that line of reasoning up. In fact, the opposite is almost certainly true. It seems like NDSU has a couple courses that students are encouraged to take online. I bet they're 100-level general-ed courses that make more sense to deliver electronically.

On the flip side, online-only students are almost always part-time. It's in the 85%-90% range. The reverse is true for traditional students. It shows up quite well when you look at the overall FT/PT breakdown between NDSU and UND. NDSU undergrads are 89.6% full-time, while UND is sitting at 78.7%. Both schools rely heavily on teachers to bolster their graduate school numbers, and those are largely part-time.



This is to everyone:

In case you didn't know, the K12 and higher-ed systems have gotten together to create a nice little racket. K12 teachers are required to take 8 credits of continuing ed classes every five years to renew their teaching licenses. The state doesn't care if those credits are for degree credit or not. But teachers automatically bump up to a better pay scale if they get their master's, so most take them for credit until they get their master's, then take the non-credit versions(they're cheaper).

Both UND and NDSU use this to their advantage in their grad school numbers. Between a third to half of NDSU's grad school students are either education or non-degree. Over a third of UND's grad school is made up of various flavors of ed or non-degree students as well. You can also see it reflected in the FT/PT breakdowns.

NDSU
FT Grad: 714 - 31.3%
PT Grad: 1569 - 68.7% (this group averages 4.1 credits/semester)

UND
FT Grad: 1208 - 42.1%
PT Grad: 1658 - 57.9% (this group averages 4.6 credits/semester)

These numbers do not include professional students(nursing/law/med).


Taking it one step further, you can also see teacher continuing-ed reflected in the online grad school numbers. (Many continuing-ed courses involve distance learning.)

NDSU
Grad online-only: 588 - 22.4%
Grad some online: 312 - 11.9%
Grad no online: 1723 - 65.7%

UND
Grad online-only: 1467 - 43.5%
Grad some online: 268 - 8.0%
Grad no online: 1634 - 48.5%

These numbers include professional students(nursing/law/med).


And this stuff doesn't even touch on non-grad, non-degree classes. Those numbers are really insane. Like 12k students at UND and 5k students at NDSU.

[tony]

Those are interesting numbers, Hammersmith. There are some entire programs in the NDUS system in which all or nearly all the students are out-of-state, online students.

Found this today:

http://www.wdaz.com/news/3745612-boa...tion-hike-ndsu

The student share differs depending on the type of school, but the system aims for students to pay 40 percent at the two research institutions. NDSU's 2.4 percent tuition increase was the rate calculated to meet that 40 percent student share.

Due to the cap, however, tuition won't cover the student share at eight other schools, including UND.

/butWaivers?