Summit Expansion?

[NDSUstudent]

Seriously? Do you actually have no idea at all of the college sports landscape? SIU-E is the only non-football OVC and that's a hard no for Summit membership. Sure, the OVC football members aren't great but they're building blocks. It's clear we don't currently have what it takes to go FBS so I'm making a roadmap for getting there, which is vastly more than your constant complaining does.

Summit football isn't any kind of roadmap unless it includes schools that could actually go FBS. You want a roadmap, join with the Montana's and maybe talk them into creating a league but playing with a bunch of puds isn't going to get us anywhere but a continued decline in ticket sales and a further weakening of our brand. Fans enjoy watching us play Valley teams. Not sure why you can't see that, just look at the dome right now and the sad state of our fanbase. The league you are talking about just furthers the decline.

[taper]

Summit football isn't any kind of roadmap unless it includes schools that could actually go FBS. You want a roadmap, join with the Montana's and maybe talk them into creating a league but playing with a bunch of puds isn't going to get us anywhere but a continued decline in ticket sales and a further weakening of our brand. Fans enjoy watching us play Valley teams. Not sure why you can't see that, just look at the dome right now and the sad state of our fanbase. The league you are talking about just furthers the decline.

If you're waiting for the Montanas to join the Summit then you're part of the fabled FCS Forever crew. Simply not going to happen. And again: SHSU, JSU, and Liberty got invites from conferences that are way more pud than Summit football would be. We currently don't have what it takes to get an FBS invite, that's absolutely clear. Waiting for fantasy world isn't going to change that.

[Professorbum]

I am not completely FBS at all costs, I don't favor FBS indpendence unless the circumstances are extreme. Even in that scenario I would be calling the Big Sky before pulling the indy route.

That said, we should by no means be placing our marquee program in an above average at best FCS conference. Sorry but SDSU, Bubba and the puds does nothing for me..we would start hemorrhaging season ticket sales in that scenario. It locks us into absolute mediocrity.

You had me at hello, but lost me at Big Sky before Independent. I'm ready for FBS independence now. Then the Summit can add whoever they want for additional stability, which would help our other sports.

Even so, I agree with you on most things. Good conversation between you and Taper.

[NDSUstudent]

If you're waiting for the Montanas to join the Summit then you're part of the fabled FCS Forever crew. Simply not going to happen. And again: SHSU, JSU, and Liberty got invites from conferences that are way more pud than Summit football would be. We currently don't have what it takes to get an FBS invite, that's absolutely clear. Waiting for fantasy world isn't going to change that.

I wasn't talking about them joining the Summit, I would take the Big Sky all day over Summit football that consists of SDSU, UND, USD, WIU, EIU and SEMO. A collection of Dakota schools and very rural Illinois and Missouri schools that are struggling to get by as is. That doesn't sound like a recipe for success or stability, I value NDSU football too much to put it in that mess.

[NDSUstudent]

You had me at hello, but lost me at Big Sky before Independent. I'm ready for FBS independence now. Then the Summit can add whoever they want for additional stability, which would help our other sports.

Even so, I agree with you on most things. Good conversation between you and Taper.

I would need to be sure we could fill out a schedule as an Indy, with CUSA sucking up most of the Indy's it gives me some concerns. I remember how awful scheduling was before the Valley came along, this would be even worse.

[Professorbum]

I would need to be sure we could fill out a schedule as an Indy, with CUSA sucking up most of the Indy's it gives me some concerns. I remember how awful scheduling was before the Valley came along, this would be even worse.

yeah, possibly. But I think as an FBS team, plenty of folks would be happy to schedule us. We'd be a good win if they beat us and not a horrible loss if they lose. Teams would relish the chance to shut us up without risking a loss to an FCS school.

[nodak651]

I would need to be sure we could fill out a schedule as an Indy, with CUSA sucking up most of the Indy's it gives me some concerns. I remember how awful scheduling was before the Valley came along, this would be even worse.

Are there any other Northern schools that want FBS? NDSU could work with a few other schools that could be interested and time the move so everyone goes FBS at the same time, then despite not having a conference, the handful of independents could form a scheduling alliance which would help a lot. Examples could be NDSU, SDSU, Montana State, Missouri State.

Edit: I kinda feel like NDSU going FBS independent could cause MVC football schools to shift their thinking a little bit in regard to football funding and prioritization. If the flagship MVFC school left, would they want to follow? This would be somewhat similar to UND and USD going D1 only after SDSU and NDSU left.

[DePereBisonFan]

I like the idea of northern schools banding together. I realize the name comes from DII days, but a north central or north western conference could work like a newer version of the mountain west. If the Idahos, Montanas, Dakotas and Northern Iowa wanted, you would have 9 teams right away.

[AKBison]

I think you guys will like Fenton. The guy is legit and he has vision - put together the NCHC pod, for example, and the NCHC platform that he put together is quality, kicks back 80% of the revenue to the schools in proportion to fan allegiance, and he was able to get a deal with CBSSN put together. He has also has been somewhat picky when it comes to expansion, as he held of on Mankato and ASU, so I think he would be resistant to adding a school like Augustana.

For the record, he was asked specifically about football during his press conference. Football would be great if it is with MVC schools. I think hockey could also be a possibility, and if he could swing that, I really think doing so would stabilize Summit membership in UST, UNO, and DU. Based on the demographics of UST students, I think hockey will be somewhat of a hot ticket, and if the Summit takes on NCHC membership it would become the best, if not the best, hockey conference in the country, and UST would have a much more difficult decision to make if they receive an MVC invite down the road, as they would basically have to sacrifice the program to do so. The same basically goes for UNO who seems to be a constant flight risk, and DU if they ever get an invite to a conference on the west coast. The Summit would obviously have greatly compounded marketing and branding power if Fenton could swing both a hockey and a football deal, or even just one of them, and it would go a long way when it comes to the perception, stability, and revenue potential of the league.

Summit Presser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xfrw3W0FZA
The Rink Live Podcast - Josh Fenton talks about taking Summit League commissioner job, helping create the NCHC, challenges, successes with the conference -- Ep. 106https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR...AAAAHQAAAAAQAQ

Summit Football would be a death blow to any FBS aspirations that NDSU has. In fact, I see it highly probable that if hockey is added as a Summit sport, NDSU will eventually try to start a program. Imagine a world 15 years from now where the football program has stagnated out. Everything during GameDay at the FFD is basically the same as it is today and the football program is similar to what it was in the mid to late 90's/early 2000's. Still capable of being very good, but not elite. At that point an FBS invite isn't coming and we have settled into a Summit league that has become a good mid major in hoops and still a power in FCS. Honestly, that scenario would be very healthy for NDSU and trying to upset the apple cart would meet strong resistance from the Admin, as it should. Eventually it becomes a "if you can't beat em, join em" scenario and bringing on hockey to play in what would be at least a top 2 conference would make a lot of sense. I'm probably in the minority here, but I really like college Hockey and wish we had it. If it turns out that this is the path we go down then I would support it.

Now, with that said, it would be heartbreaking for the football program, University, and State to endure this kind scenario. I would much prefer we do whatever it takes to go FBS with the ultimate goal of landing in the MWC. There are a ton of obstacles and risk to do so but I firmly believe that NDSU is different then the other Dakota's. We must embrace the challenge and go FBS. CUSA isn't ideal, but it's a start. When Boise went FBS they joined the Big West which had football affiliates strewn between California, Texas, Louisiana, and Illinois.

[taper]

People here are just ignoring reality. Nobody in the FBS wants us, that's a fact. P5 is simply impossible, don't be delusional. Sunbelt, ACC, CUSA didn't even give us a look when they added teams. MAC and MWC have no signs of adding and have lots of options before us. Sorry but that's the truth. Our best option is making the Summit the best we can and jumping when/if D1 changes. Remember that Liberty opened the door to teams and therefore conferences jumping without invites or face losing an antitrust suit. Matt Larson is about to start a 4 year term on the NCAA football committee so he'll be well aware of any changes and in a position to influence them. Like it or not, that's our best realistic option. All other doors are closed.