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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #101
    DePereBisonFan is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    You know, part of the fun of Bisonville is the ability to dream and make up these conference scenarios. I haven't played any college football or basketball video games, but I wonder if they have the ability to enable the user to conference-shuffle and stuff like that. Can a player ever designate themselves as a conference commissioner and work accordingly?

    Sorry...that may or may not be thread drift...

  2. #102
    zooropa is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    On travel costs:

    1 - you're replacing a bus trip for half of the Summit with a flight (Oakland out, AFA/Denver in). That's unquestionably an increase in travel costs, on a per mile/per student basis for over a hundred student athletes and staff at almost every SL school (25 WSOC, 25 softball, 25 baseball, 15 WBB, 15 MBB+coaches, SID staff, 20 VB, etc.) Even if there's no appreciable change in costs for the I-29 schools, there will be a significant change for WIU, IUPUI, IPFW.

    2 - you're imposing huge travel costs on AFA & Denver, regardless of how much you want to minimize costs to the rest of the SL.

    And finally, the WAC isn't going anywhere as long as it has an autobid so this is a more or less moot discussion. It'll almost certainly have to drop football, but the Big Sky can't absorb and the MWC/Big West/WCC don't want the remnants of the WAC.

  3. #103
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
    On travel costs:

    1 - you're replacing a bus trip for half of the Summit with a flight (Oakland out, AFA/Denver in). That's unquestionably an increase in travel costs, on a per mile/per student basis for over a hundred student athletes and staff at almost every SL school (25 WSOC, 25 softball, 25 baseball, 15 WBB, 15 MBB+coaches, SID staff, 20 VB, etc.) Even if there's no appreciable change in costs for the I-29 schools, there will be a significant change for WIU, IUPUI, IPFW.

    2 - you're imposing huge travel costs on AFA & Denver, regardless of how much you want to minimize costs to the rest of the SL.

    And finally, the WAC isn't going anywhere as long as it has an autobid so this is a more or less moot discussion. It'll almost certainly have to drop football, but the Big Sky can't absorb and the MWC/Big West/WCC don't want the remnants of the WAC.
    Huge costs for Air Force and Denver? Compared to their current travel situations I'd call it a wash.

    NDSU, SDSU, USD, UMKC and UNO don't ride a bus to Detroit. So again it is a bit of a wash. The Summit needs another baseball school if Oakland does leave, Air Force is better than adding UND and is on par with UNC.

    If Idaho joins the Big Sky(they are talking about doing so, even if it is non-football) and Boise gets into the Big West the WAC is dead. Do you really think Denver would rather be in the Summit or a WAC that is made up of a collection of misfit toys(UVU, Texas Pan America, Cal Bakersfield, etc).

  4. #104
    zooropa is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUstudent View Post
    Huge costs for Air Force and Denver? Compared to their current travel situations I'd call it a wash.

    NDSU, SDSU, USD, UMKC and UNO don't ride a bus to Detroit. So again it is a bit of a wash.

    If Idaho joins the Big Sky(they are talking about doing, even if it is non-football) and Boise gets into the Big West the WAC is dead. Do you really think Denver would rather be in the Summit or a WAC that is made up of a collection of misfit toys(UVU, Texas Pan America, Cal Bakersfield, etc).
    AFA can bus to UNM, Colorado State and Wyoming--they're the equivalent of USD, UNO and UMKC for SDSU. Toss those three schools out, and you dramatically increase your budget, because now your nearest school, apart from Denver is 600+ miles away. It's not trivial. Would it trivially increase SDSU's budget to, say, join the Horizon League along with USD?

    As far as Denver goes, maybe that *would* be a wash, but then what's your pitch to Denver? It's not like the Summit is that much more prestigious than the WAC.

    And finally, I don't think the Big Sky wants Idaho, nor do I think that the Big West wants Boise State. What do either of those schools bring to those conferences, besides further dilution to the basketball money, and even tougher access to the basketball tournament?

  5. #105
    Grizzled is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
    AFA can bus to UNM, Colorado State and Wyoming--they're the equivalent of USD, UNO and UMKC for SDSU. Toss those three schools out, and you dramatically increase your budget, because now your nearest school, apart from Denver is 600+ miles away. It's not trivial. Would it trivially increase SDSU's budget to, say, join the Horizon League along with USD?

    As far as Denver goes, maybe that *would* be a wash, but then what's your pitch to Denver? It's not like the Summit is that much more prestigious than the WAC.

    And finally, I don't think the Big Sky wants Idaho, nor do I think that the Big West wants Boise State. What do either of those schools bring to those conferences, besides further dilution to the basketball money, and even tougher access to the basketball tournament?
    The Big Sky was talking about Idaho way back when UND and SUU joined. I talked to someone in Montana with ties to the athletic program and this was part of their pitch along with San Jose St (which never worked out). I guess Fullerton is actually pretty smart when it comes to some of the conference stuff and he saw Idaho being left out on an island a year ago. I posted this way back than so to say the Big Sky doesn't want Idaho isn't accurate.

  6. #106
    zooropa is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzled View Post
    The Big Sky was talking about Idaho way back when UND and SUU joined. I talked to someone in Montana with ties to the athletic program and this was part of their pitch along with San Jose St (which never worked out). I guess Fullerton is actually pretty smart when it comes to some of the conference stuff and he saw Idaho being left out on an island a year ago. I posted this way back than so to say the Big Sky doesn't want Idaho isn't accurate.
    What does Idaho add to the conference? And please, don't tell me Fullerton's smart. They've got 11 schools competing for a single basketball bid and his solution is to make it 12? And I can't imagine that Idaho State is any too keen to let Idaho into the Big Sky, let alone Boise State. And what does the Big Sky have to offer Idaho? They've got a better shot at making the NCAAs in the remnants of the WAC plus Utah Valley.

    And again, I would like to point out that since the NCAA started awarding auto bids to conference champs only one conference has folded, and that's the Southwest Conference, and that for reasons that were unique and clearly connected to massive NCAA sanctions on their bread and butter sport.

  7. #107
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    coldspot is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    apparently, UMKC was weighing the idea of adding baseball back in 2007. The addition of them would really solidify baseball in the conference and could ease some of the concerns about the stability of the sport

    http://www.cstv.com/sports/c-rifle/s...041807aaa.html

  8. #108
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
    What does Idaho add to the conference? And please, don't tell me Fullerton's smart. They've got 11 schools competing for a single basketball bid and his solution is to make it 12? And I can't imagine that Idaho State is any too keen to let Idaho into the Big Sky, let alone Boise State. And what does the Big Sky have to offer Idaho? They've got a better shot at making the NCAAs in the remnants of the WAC plus Utah Valley.

    And again, I would like to point out that since the NCAA started awarding auto bids to conference champs only one conference has folded, and that's the Southwest Conference, and that for reasons that were unique and clearly connected to massive NCAA sanctions on their bread and butter sport.
    Getting Idaho into the Big Sky essentially means the WAC is dead which means there are two main all sports conferences in the West outside of the the PAC 10. The Big Sky and The MWC. That would elevate the profile of the Big Sky in the west and potentially mean more exposure, tv deals, etc.

  9. #109
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by zooropa View Post
    What does Idaho add to the conference? And please, don't tell me Fullerton's smart. They've got 11 schools competing for a single basketball bid and his solution is to make it 12? And I can't imagine that Idaho State is any too keen to let Idaho into the Big Sky, let alone Boise State. And what does the Big Sky have to offer Idaho? They've got a better shot at making the NCAAs in the remnants of the WAC plus Utah Valley.

    And again, I would like to point out that since the NCAA started awarding auto bids to conference champs only one conference has folded, and that's the Southwest Conference, and that for reasons that were unique and clearly connected to massive NCAA sanctions on their bread and butter sport.
    Fullerton even released a statement the Big Fluffy would take Idaho if they drpped to FCS, the Idaho President even released a letter to students and alum about possibly having to accept and take the step back to preserve the athletics at the university. The BSC wants Idaho its no secret

    http://voices.idahostatesman.com/201...thier_bottom_f
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  10. #110
    zooropa is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmksioux View Post
    Getting Idaho into the Big Sky essentially means the WAC is dead which means there are two main all sports conferences in the West outside of the the PAC 10. The Big Sky and The MWC. That would elevate the profile of the Big Sky in the west and potentially mean more exposure, tv deals, etc.
    First of all, there's no TV money for the Big Sky. None. Who in what major metro area gives a flying flapdoodle about any Big Sky school?

    Secondly, if the WAC is dead, where are these other schools going to go? You think they're all going to end up in other conferences? Independents? Really? While the WAC has a NCAA tournament auto-bid?

    Of course Doug Fullerton may be dumb enough to launch the largest single-bid basketball conference in the as yet discovered universe. He may be dumb enough to insist on an all-sports membership for Idaho, but if he does, I can guarantee you it won't last.

    Twelve teams competing for a single bid in the NCAAs. Good grief. Yeah. That's way better than staying in the WAC.

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