Summit Expansion?

[BigLakeBison]

I agree with you almost completely, we're just differing on the timeline and outcome. My plan is to do what it takes to improve the Summit to the point the MVC publics see us as better than the MVC privates. Improving basketball is a huge part of that, and the Summit is on the right track. In contrast, the MVC is on the decline. Their best teams have/are leaving and if both trends continue it won't be that long before Summit with the MVC publics is better than the MVC with their privates. Once that happens we have a very strong Summit football league, and since Liberty opened the door to going FBS without an invite, the entire conference moves up. While certainly not guaranteed, I see this as a much more likely possibility than waiting for an FBS invite that hasn't shown any sign of coming. Even if it never happens, improving Summit's Olympic sports is nothing but good. There's literally no downside to starting down this road.

Ok. I’ll bite. The NDSU ath. Dept. needs to show us something and start investing in basketball at a much higher level then. The MVC may have declined some with the losses of Creighton, Wichita and Loyola Chicago. That being said it is still quite a distance in front of the Summit in terms of investment. Arenas, coaching salaries, attendance and on court performance is much higher for the MVC. It’s going to take quite some time for the Summit to catch the MVC at the current pace. That needs to change quickly for your premise to make sense. I’ll also argue that NDSU needs to take the lead on this and invest in the Olympic sports faster to get on par with the MVC. The others will need to try to follow. If they don’t, then so be it and we become the Gonzaga of the Summit and give ourselves way more options when more realignment happens.

[BigLakeBison]

I agree. And the plan wouldn't be for them to move anything outside of football, which would be affiliate members of a hypothetical Summit league instead of a single sport conference (MVFC).
And your comment about the AQ is exactly why they would opt to become affiliate members of a hypothetical Summit Leage football.

Right now the MVFC is made up of:
5 Summit members (USD, SDSU, UND, NDSU, WIU)
5 MVC members (ISUb, ISUr, MSU, UNI, SIU)
1 Horizon member (YSU)

If St. Thomas ever pushed for scholarship football and one of the MVC or Horizon members went elsewhere, the dynamics would suddenly shift and the Summit schools would be in more of a position of power. And honestly, how much difference would it make for the MVC/Horizon member schools? Other than people wouldn't be able to be confused that the MVFC =/= MVC.
It would be a good way to lock in St. Thomas as a long-term member and I would assume most of the Summit schools covet the MSP market. Lots of moving parts and it isn't inevitable, but it also is something that has been tossed around as Fenton made reference to it in his first press conference.

If Fenton can encourage the summit member schools to invest enough to grow the Summit brand to the level of the MVC than that will be a success and I’d give your premise a good chance of happening. If he can’t and they don’t, than the MVC publics stay and use their leverage to keep the MVFC intact. The Summit currently has no position of leverage.

[nodak651]

If Fenton can encourage the summit member schools to invest enough to grow the Summit brand to the level of the MVC than that will be a success and I’d give your premise a good chance of happening. If he can’t and they don’t, than the MVC publics stay and use their leverage to keep the MVFC intact. The Summit currently has no position of leverage.

It will be interesting to see what direction the MVC goes with conference expansion. If they take in UIC, TA, UMKC, and shaft Murray State again, I don't think much improvement by the Summit League would even need to happen. The MVC expansion thread on the ISUr message board is interesting, as many are already suggesting that the MVC publics should join the Summit. This reminds me a hell of a lot like the split in the Big East. I think Summit Football should only be implemented if/when it can be used as a lever to tip the scales, resulting in the public MVC schools breaking away from the MVC and joining the Summit. Let's say these schools leave the MVC after the MVC accepts UMKC and WIU is encouraged to finally join the Horizon or OVC. That conference makeup wouldn't look too bad...

[Professorbum]

I agree with you almost completely, we're just differing on the timeline and outcome. My plan is to do what it takes to improve the Summit to the point the MVC publics see us as better than the MVC privates. Improving basketball is a huge part of that, and the Summit is on the right track. In contrast, the MVC is on the decline. Their best teams have/are leaving and if both trends continue it won't be that long before Summit with the MVC publics is better than the MVC with their privates. Once that happens we have a very strong Summit football league, and since Liberty opened the door to going FBS without an invite, the entire conference moves up. While certainly not guaranteed, I see this as a much more likely possibility than waiting for an FBS invite that hasn't shown any sign of coming. Even if it never happens, improving Summit's Olympic sports is nothing but good. There's literally no downside to starting down this road.

If this were to happen, I would apologize for all the eye-rolling I've ever directed toward your comments.

One thing I certainly agree with you about is basketball. I still think our highest priority should be finding, scratching, clawing a way into FBS right now. But if that's not gonna happen, then NDSU athletics needs to redirect money to basketball. If we are destined to be FCS, then I want us to be a legit mid-major basketball school.

[bruinbison]

Ok. I’ll bite. The NDSU ath. Dept. needs to show us something and start investing in basketball at a much higher level then. The MVC may have declined some with the losses of Creighton, Wichita and Loyola Chicago. That being said it is still quite a distance in front of the Summit in terms of investment. Arenas, coaching salaries, attendance and on court performance is much higher for the MVC. It’s going to take quite some time for the Summit to catch the MVC at the current pace. That needs to change quickly for your premise to make sense. I’ll also argue that NDSU needs to take the lead on this and invest in the Olympic sports faster to get on par with the MVC. The others will need to try to follow. If they don’t, then so be it and we become the Gonzaga of the Summit and give ourselves way more options when more realignment happens.

SDSU the next Summit League member to upgrade their arena.

https://www.sdstatefoundation.org/st...ena-renovation

Estimated at $50 million overall, the renovation project is expected to take two years to complete. Construction will take place in multiple phases to avoid relocation and interruption of SDSU events.

Once complete, fan experience and gameday atmosphere will be taken to the next level with:

new premium seating areas and suites,
state-of-the-art video board and display systems,
an enhanced sound system,
a more spacious concourse,
and improved restrooms.
New and improved locker rooms and offices are also a part of the renovation design, which will have an estimated capacity of 5,500.

Can’t imagine Jackrabbits/Brookings were happy South Dakota/Vermillion got their new arena done 1st

Frost Arena seats more people currently, 6500ish, but will drop to 5500 to be able to add in the new features

[NDSU1980]

Summit FB = Northern Sun 2.0, except with more expenses (D1) and less money (declining enrollment). Tell me how that’s a good idea? It’s not.

Why would NDSU leave the MVFC? To go FBS. That’s the only way. You should want to stay in the MVFC too. It’s much better than Summit FB would ever be.

My favorite MVFC teams are UNI, SIU, Mo State, ISU red, etc. I don’t care about UND and USD. Sorry

I agree entirely. Summit FB is nothing more than another way for the FCS Forever crowd to add another layer of problems when it comes to moving up. Idea is beyond stupid.

[Gully]

I agree entirely. Summit FB is nothing more than another way for the FCS Forever crown to ad another layer of problems when it comes to moving up. Idea is beyond stupid.

I agree. It ties football to the other sports, thereby cementing the status quo, since I can't see anyway the other sports move to another conference.

[BigLakeBison]

SDSU the next Summit League member to upgrade their arena.

https://www.sdstatefoundation.org/st...ena-renovation



Can’t imagine Jackrabbits/Brookings were happy South Dakota/Vermillion got their new arena done 1st

Frost Arena seats more people currently, 6500ish, but will drop to 5500 to be able to add in the new features

SDSU has done a great job of improving their facilities. Even better than NDSU considering where they were at when they moved to D1. And USD has started to catch up a bit with their new basketball arena and the renovations to the Dome. Overall the Dakotas have good overall facilities for mid-major programs. However, they still have a ways to go to be considered in the upper echelon of mid major programs. And some of the facilities in the Summit are really in need of upgrades. The Dakotas need to continue the investments in order to close the gap significantly.

[Bison Dan]

SDSU has done a great job of improving their facilities. Even better than NDSU considering where they were at when they moved to D1. And USD has started to catch up a bit with their new basketball arena and the renovations to the Dome. Overall the Dakotas have good overall facilities for mid-major programs. However, they still have a ways to go to be considered in the upper echelon of mid major programs. And some of the facilities in the Summit are really in need of upgrades. The Dakotas need to continue the investments in order to close the gap significantly.

Makes a big difference if you can bond for the projects or have to have the monies in hand.

[bruinbison]

SDSU has done a great job of improving their facilities. Even better than NDSU considering where they were at when they moved to D1. And USD has started to catch up a bit with their new basketball arena and the renovations to the Dome. Overall the Dakotas have good overall facilities for mid-major programs. However, they still have a ways to go to be considered in the upper echelon of mid major programs. And some of the facilities in the Summit are really in need of upgrades. The Dakotas need to continue the investments in order to close the gap significantly.

Who else needs upgrades in the Summit?
I can remember Omaha building and Oral Roberts already being nice.
Does Denver need something? Western Illinois? Kansas City needs something right? Even if they leave for the MVC, the MVC should require that. Are you counting St Thomas as one in need?
I don’t count El Forko Grande as they will always be El Forko Grande…