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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #791
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Honeybooboo View Post
    there isn's a snowballs chance in Hell they get the votes for the MVFC, unless someone is jumping ship, also how the hell do people think they are a lock into the Summit?
    That was my point, NDSU would tell Augie to pound sand. As would UNI and a number of other schools for that matter. At best Augie can dream of going non-scholarship and having NDSU cut them a six figure check to fill out our spot for our annual cupcake opponent. I'm sure other MVFC schools would do the same,

    They seem to be lock for the Summit since Sanford has so much power, SDSU and USD are afraid to do what is in their best interest and tell Augie to pound sand.
    NDSU to the FBS always. In all ways.

  2. #792
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    If it's so easy than why doesn't it happen all the time. There are not that many transfers who have THAT big of an impact on the FCS level. Strevler is the exception but he finished up his career with the Gophers as a WR and they still didn't go very far in the playoffs. What do you think a guy like Randy Moss is going to transfer to Augustana.
    I said if a difference maker(like Strevler is the first name to come to mind) can lift the play of his team and carry Augie to a win vs USD/SDSU then its a starting block. It doesnt need to "happen all of the time". because NDSU's too damn good for anybody to even have a chance. it doesnt mean Augie cant do what UNI and YSU are doing which is basically nothing.

    i dont think theyll ever be a threat ever. but then again, I never thought USD would ever beat NDSU despite your excuses.

  3. #793
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Your point (in bold) is exactly why I said the following in my previous post:



    I can't argue with the numbers you've posted. But as I've said in the past, that was in an era when Augie was putting an embarrassing (literally embarrassing) lack of emphasis on athletics. The whole point I'm making is that if they DON'T put financial support behind it like they have to, then yes, we are going to suck like we did in the 90s. Except worse, because we'll already be taking a hit by going D1 and having to transition and stuff as it is.

    So when you say, "That's when all things were EQUAL and we were all D2," yes, we were all D2, but I disagree that things were "equal." And the blame for that falls on Augie. Like I said a couple of weeks ago, if Augie's administration goes into this with a failure to plan appropriately and the money isn't there like it needs to be, then everyone involved will be to blame. But if the money IS pulled together like it needs to be, we will have a much better chance to be competitive than we EVER had in the 90s and early 2000s when Augie wasn't putting money toward athletics.

    Regarding the last section of your post, here are some quick thoughts:

    1) Yes, they'll have to increase the coaching salaries (for all sports), and I have no idea whether or not they'll be able to match a better offer from other schools, even if it's a rival Summit League school. At the same time, as I've read on every local D1 school's message board over the past 3-4 years, "That's the life of being a mid-major" when you lose your coach to a higher paying school. I would hope we wouldn't lose good coaches to other schools, but that's part of it.

    2) As far as recruiting goes, yes, FCOA is probably a big deal, but I don't believe all schools in the Summit League offer it fully for all sports, right? If they do, I'll gladly be corrected, but I don't get the impression they do. So if it just needs to be offered for the key sports like men's/women's basketball in order to remain competitive, it'll be more manageable, especially in the beginning. And I'm not sure how it would work if the football team goes non-scholarship (obviously most likely option). Do Pioneer League schools offer FCOA too? I don't know, just curious.

    3) As far as facilities go, I would imagine some of the corporate sponsors rumored to be interested in supporting the D1 jump would want to move the Vikings into a better venue (possibly the Pentagon?). That being said, the Vikings have managed to make the Sioux Falls Arena a pretty solid venue for conference games (details here: http://www.goaugie.com/facilities/?id=5), and even if that's unavailable in the future, I would imagine they'd have a plan in place for where they'd go. Again, if they don't have a plan for a potential issue like that, shame on the Augie administration for not being prepared enough. And the Vikes currently have a high-level, $1 million+ practice facility (details here: http://goaugie.com/facilities/?id=36) that gives players 24/7 access to a private gym and allows them to schedule team practices without competing for floor space with other activities/teams on campus. I don't know anything about locker rooms and that kind of thing as I've never seen those, but I can't imagine they are a dump. Overall, I don't think the Vikings are as far behind on facilities as some might think. At least not in basketball, baseball (details here: http://goaugie.com/facilities/?id=4), and at least a few other sports.

    To be clear, I'm not saying, "So obviously we're totally ready to go D1." I'm just trying to contribute some info/facts that I can provide as the only Augie fan/alum on here based on the questions you raised in your post.

    It's possible the administration will come out tomorrow or in a week or in a month and say, "After lots of research and careful consideration, we just can't see our institution making the jump to Division I successfully" and I'd think, Yep, that makes sense. Or they could say, "Due to the path we're envisioning and substantial commitments for sponsorship and alumni support, we feel we're prepared to succeed at the Division 1 level," and I'd think, Sweet. Let's go annoy the Dakota 4 fans.
    I get the part about Augustana not putting money into their program. I was referring to football as part of the equation. I think basketball has a chance if all the resources are thrown at it.

    Back in the 80s and 90s when Augie didnt put a lot of money into their program, the other Dakota schools were way ahead.

    Now the gap is ten times bigger. Example. Back then our athletic budget was well under 10 million. Now NDSU and UND is approaching 30 million. SDSU is 22 million. USD is approaching 20 million.

    Our football coach almost makes a half million with incentives and our Coordinators are paid better than our head coach used to make.

    We got full cost of attendance and not all the teams offer it. But the good teams do.

    Do mid majors lose coaches? Yes, but when you pay 200-300k, its easy to find new talented coaches. That's why SDSU paid TJ Otzelberger 300k after losing Nagy who make 212k.

    Your basketball practice facility is functional but if your talking football, SDSU has a 30 million dollar facility UND has a 30 million dollar facility and we will soon have the same.

    Football stadium would take a huge chunk of money that would better be served boosting up basketball in my opinion. If you try to do everything, you end up doing nothing well.
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  4. #794
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Coach Shepherd took a position with Syracuse, so we promoted from within and hired Coach Klinger, an Augustana coach for offensive quality control. He was their assistant recruiting coordinator and Wide Receivers coach.
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  5. #795
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    I get the part about Augustana not putting money into their program. I was referring to football as part of the equation. I think basketball has a chance if all the resources are thrown at it.

    Back in the 80s and 90s when Augie didnt put a lot of money into their program, the other Dakota schools were way ahead.

    Now the gap is ten times bigger. Example. Back then our athletic budget was well under 10 million. Now NDSU and UND is approaching 30 million. SDSU is 22 million. USD is approaching 20 million.

    Our football coach almost makes a half million with incentives and our Coordinators are paid better than our head coach used to make.

    We got full cost of attendance and not all the teams offer it. But the good teams do.

    Do mid majors lose coaches? Yes, but when you pay 200-300k, its easy to find new talented coaches. That's why SDSU paid TJ Otzelberger 300k after losing Nagy who make 212k.

    Your basketball practice facility is functional but if your talking football, SDSU has a 30 million dollar facility UND has a 30 million dollar facility and we will soon have the same.

    Football stadium would take a huge chunk of money that would better be served boosting up basketball in my opinion. If you try to do everything, you end up doing nothing well.
    I agree with almost all of this.

    I understand the gap is bigger. But if the goal is for Augie to go D1, the only way to do it is to get started with the right financial commitments to be as competitive as possible immediately and, after achieving some success, continue working toward closing the gap from there. I don't know the details, but I'm guessing by the time USD made the jump, the gap between NDSU/SDSU and the Coyotes was reasonable. I'm guessing not as wide as the gap between NDSU and Augie is today, but it's not like USD was financially in the same place as NDSU on the day they officially moved up. (Right? I could be wrong on that, for sure.) But it's not like they sat there and said, "Hey, it's a pretty big gap right now...maybe let's keep chillin' here at D2 just in case." They had the resources to make the jump, made the jump, and are now accomplishing things that are increasing their financial resources and closing the budget gap (like fielding a highly successful women's basketball team, getting better in men's basketball and football, etc.).

    It all comes down to whether or not Augie really can or can't secure the finances necessary to start with. The local D1 fans can all sit and talk about how it's impossible/improbable that they will and the media can sit and speculate all day on how it's going to get paid for, but the reality is that the funding will either be there or it won't, and the administration will need to make a decision accordingly. If they make an ill-advised decision and things go poorly, the school will undoubtedly irritate and/or alienate a staggering portion of its alums and boosters. My guess is everyone involved is aware of that.

    I hope they are having the right conversations with the right people about FCOA, coaches' salaries, facilities updates/upgrades, etc. and whether or not they can afford to compete with all of those factors being considered appropriately. Because if they AREN'T able to pull that together, I would much rather see us stay Division II and compete at the highest level in D2 (in several sports), which we have been doing for the past 8-10 years.

    Regarding your last point, I think everyone is in agreement that there's a 0% chance Augie does this successfully without planning for how to handle football. But if everyone on the local message boards is having more intelligent and insightful conversations about that decision than Augie's administration and athletic department, then Augustana University is screwed anyway, regardless of which decision they make. Like, super duper screwed (no offense, everyone on here...I'm including myself in that remark).

    Ultimately, if the decision is being made by Augie's administrators saying, "Eh, we're not totally sure where the money's gonna come from, but let's give it a shot. #yolo" then a jump to D1 will be a colossal, Centenary-esque failure. I would hope throughout this process that they've been accounting for the factors you've been mentioning. If there even is a process. At this point, neither the president nor nor athletic director has even remotely indicated Augie will be going D1.

  6. #796
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Gabe, just a comment that Augie has a very nice, relatively new D2 style football stadium. I think it would be just fine for Pioneer League if they went that route since no one will go anyway. (Serious on both points.)

  7. #797
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    How irritated are the donors that donated millions of dollars towards building Kirkeby-Over Stadium less than 10 years ago going to be if they decide to scrap football in order to move to D1? How pissed are all the football alumni going to be if Augie moves to D1 and makes football an afterthought by going non-scholarship. I can tell you that by alienating Augustana's football alumni they will be cutting off a huge source of potential athletic donors as football players make up the largest group of AD alumni and donor group at pretty much every school. I don't see any way forward for Augie in D1 without scholarship football. I don't see them being able to afford scholarship football, and I don't see them getting into the MVFC, so tell me what football conference Augie will join. You can say non-scholly pioneer, but remember that large contingent of football alumni you are telling that football is not a priority, see how many donations you will get from them for this move.

  8. #798
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    I agree with almost all of this.

    I understand the gap is bigger. But if the goal is for Augie to go D1, the only way to do it is to get started with the right financial commitments to be as competitive as possible immediately and, after achieving some success, continue working toward closing the gap from there. I don't know the details, but I'm guessing by the time USD made the jump, the gap between NDSU/SDSU and the Coyotes was reasonable. I'm guessing not as wide as the gap between NDSU and Augie is today, but it's not like USD was financially in the same place as NDSU on the day they officially moved up. (Right? I could be wrong on that, for sure.) But it's not like they sat there and said, "Hey, it's a pretty big gap right now...maybe let's keep chillin' here at D2 just in case." They had the resources to make the jump, made the jump, and are now accomplishing things that are increasing their financial resources and closing the budget gap (like fielding a highly successful women's basketball team, getting better in men's basketball and football, etc.).

    It all comes down to whether or not Augie really can or can't secure the finances necessary to start with. The local D1 fans can all sit and talk about how it's impossible/improbable that they will and the media can sit and speculate all day on how it's going to get paid for, but the reality is that the funding will either be there or it won't, and the administration will need to make a decision accordingly. If they make an ill-advised decision and things go poorly, the school will undoubtedly irritate and/or alienate a staggering portion of its alums and boosters. My guess is everyone involved is aware of that.

    I hope they are having the right conversations with the right people about FCOA, coaches' salaries, facilities updates/upgrades, etc. and whether or not they can afford to compete with all of those factors being considered appropriately. Because if they AREN'T able to pull that together, I would much rather see us stay Division II and compete at the highest level in D2 (in several sports), which we have been doing for the past 8-10 years.

    Regarding your last point, I think everyone is in agreement that there's a 0% chance Augie does this successfully without planning for how to handle football. But if everyone on the local message boards is having more intelligent and insightful conversations about that decision than Augie's administration and athletic department, then Augustana University is screwed anyway, regardless of which decision they make. Like, super duper screwed (no offense, everyone on here...I'm including myself in that remark).

    Ultimately, if the decision is being made by Augie's administrators saying, "Eh, we're not totally sure where the money's gonna come from, but let's give it a shot. #yolo" then a jump to D1 will be a colossal, Centenary-esque failure. I would hope throughout this process that they've been accounting for the factors you've been mentioning. If there even is a process. At this point, neither the president nor nor athletic director has even remotely indicated Augie will be going D1.
    One thing to remember about USD. They have a lot more students then Augustana and those students pay very high student fees to assist in funding their athletic department. They are also a public institution who are able to grab State funding and they have a much larger alumni base, some who have a lot of money and are willing to donate. D1 is hard. It is costly and having a large student base is necessary unless you have a lot of wealthy alum (see Duke) who give a lot of money. Augustana does not have those type of alumni. I know, Krabbenhoft/Sanford... blah blah blah. I would be really really nervous if I were the leadership of Augustana and my entire D1 move was funded by Kelby Krabbenhoft and Sanford. You lose control over your athletic department if you take that route.

    In addition, SDSU, NDSU, UND, USD are not standing pat and continue to increase athletic spending every year. The ND schools are at $30 million. SDSU are up to $24 million and USD are about to hit $20 million. Those numbers will continue to increase annually. By the time Augustana move up, it is possible the ND schools are pushing $35 million, SDSU $30 million and USD $25 million. That's real money.

    As for football. Augustana will never get an invite into the MVFC yet your new AD is on the record saying non-scholarship FB is not on the table. That leaves them no option but to drop the sport, which your AD has also said they will not do. There are no other upper Midwest FCS leagues and you cannot leave FB at the D2 level as Kelby Krabbenhoft actually thought you could do in the KWSN interview. I for one do not think Augustana moves up. I think your President is being pushed by a few very rich men with egos. When push comes to shove, I expect her and the leaders of your school to do the right thing and stay put.

  9. #799
    oldmantutters is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    I agree with almost all of this.

    I understand the gap is bigger. But if the goal is for Augie to go D1, the only way to do it is to get started with the right financial commitments to be as competitive as possible immediately and, after achieving some success, continue working toward closing the gap from there. I don't know the details, but I'm guessing by the time USD made the jump, the gap between NDSU/SDSU and the Coyotes was reasonable. I'm guessing not as wide as the gap between NDSU and Augie is today, but it's not like USD was financially in the same place as NDSU on the day they officially moved up. (Right? I could be wrong on that, for sure.) But it's not like they sat there and said, "Hey, it's a pretty big gap right now...maybe let's keep chillin' here at D2 just in case." They had the resources to make the jump, made the jump, and are now accomplishing things that are increasing their financial resources and closing the budget gap (like fielding a highly successful women's basketball team, getting better in men's basketball and football, etc.).

    It all comes down to whether or not Augie really can or can't secure the finances necessary to start with. The local D1 fans can all sit and talk about how it's impossible/improbable that they will and the media can sit and speculate all day on how it's going to get paid for, but the reality is that the funding will either be there or it won't, and the administration will need to make a decision accordingly. If they make an ill-advised decision and things go poorly, the school will undoubtedly irritate and/or alienate a staggering portion of its alums and boosters. My guess is everyone involved is aware of that.

    I hope they are having the right conversations with the right people about FCOA, coaches' salaries, facilities updates/upgrades, etc. and whether or not they can afford to compete with all of those factors being considered appropriately. Because if they AREN'T able to pull that together, I would much rather see us stay Division II and compete at the highest level in D2 (in several sports), which we have been doing for the past 8-10 years.

    Regarding your last point, I think everyone is in agreement that there's a 0% chance Augie does this successfully without planning for how to handle football. But if everyone on the local message boards is having more intelligent and insightful conversations about that decision than Augie's administration and athletic department, then Augustana University is screwed anyway, regardless of which decision they make. Like, super duper screwed (no offense, everyone on here...I'm including myself in that remark).

    Ultimately, if the decision is being made by Augie's administrators saying, "Eh, we're not totally sure where the money's gonna come from, but let's give it a shot. #yolo" then a jump to D1 will be a colossal, Centenary-esque failure. I would hope throughout this process that they've been accounting for the factors you've been mentioning. If there even is a process. At this point, neither the president nor nor athletic director has even remotely indicated Augie will be going D1.
    NDSU didn't go D1 as a 'keeping up with the Joneses' kind of move. Other shitbag D2 schools (*cough, cough* UND *cough, cough*) were advocating for less scholarships, and NDSU explored multiple options. Add hockey or go D1. The rest is history.

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  10. #800

    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldmantutters View Post
    NDSU didn't go D1 as a 'keeping up with the Joneses' kind of move. Other shitbag D2 schools (*cough, cough* UND *cough, cough*) were advocating for less scholarships, and NDSU explored multiple options. Add hockey or go D1. The rest is history.

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