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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #751
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    The issue with Augie is all they bring to the league is another body and a strong case can be that their presence will hurt other schools fighting over a small market. I don't really care how far Augie's 10 fans will travel, but the reality is...they'll travel to the SF arena and that is about it. I give about zero damns about the Summit basketball tournament, tired of the league catering to the SD schools and with Augie it will just get worse.

    UMKC is a new market, they are a nobody in it but at least they won't be a parasite to the league. They are paying big for leaving the league to begin with, maybe if they had stayed their financial situation wouldn't be so bleak.
    NDSU to the FBS always. In all ways.

  2. #752
    KC Bison is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Seems if UMKC has over $400,000 in travel expenses for just their men's basketball teams, it might consider returning to the Summit. They might even attract some post season tournaments to KC. They're money problems appear to be much worse since leaving this conference. I certainly would never complain if they moved some tournaments to KC.

  3. #753
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUstudent View Post
    The issue with Augie is all they bring to the league is another body and a strong case can be that their presence will hurt other schools fighting over a small market. I don't really care how far Augie's 10 fans will travel, but the reality is...they'll travel to the SF arena and that is about it. I give about zero damns about the Summit basketball tournament, tired of the league catering to the SD schools and with Augie it will just get worse.

    UMKC is a new market, they are a nobody in it but at least they won't be a parasite to the league. They are paying big for leaving the league to begin with, maybe if they had stayed their financial situation wouldn't be so bleak.
    Augustana Mens BB - 2,421
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    I do like the fact UMKC is in a different and large market. Makes the league sound bigger but most fans would have to google what UMKC stands for. I also like how it stabilizes the other parts of our conference. We're never too far away from the league losing an autobid. Augustana secures that but alienates Oral Robert's and Denver while UMKC solves the problem without pissing off those schools but brings a mediocre program.

    This would legitimately be the NCC. From a stability standpoint, the NCC lasted almost 85 years and was arguably the best D2 conference out there. It routinely lead the nation in attendance. But it's the friggin NCC and that bores me.

    What would suck is having more NCC schools than new exciting opponents

    I dont want to turn into the WAC but New Mexico State, Grand Canyon, and Seattle sure sounds more interesting and fun than Augie.

    I would love to see
    SUMMIT EAST
    NDSU
    UND
    SDSU
    USD
    OMAHA
    Western Illinois
    UMKC

    SUMMIT WEST
    New Mexico State
    Seattle
    Grand Canyon
    UMKC
    Denver
    Oral Roberts
    Utah Valley

    Or just have 1 big giant conference full of good competition. Its 3 more teams than the Big Sky but interesting
    .


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  4. #754
    North Side's Avatar
    North Side is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Basically it comes down to:
    Augie
    UMKC
    University of Northern Colorado

    All of them have issues there is no slam dunk solution......
    I miss Oakland and IUPUI.......

  5. #755
    Honeybooboo is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by NDSUstudent View Post
    The issue with Augie is all they bring to the league is another body and a strong case can be that their presence will hurt other schools fighting over a small market. I don't really care how far Augie's 10 fans will travel, but the reality is...they'll travel to the SF arena and that is about it. I give about zero damns about the Summit basketball tournament, tired of the league catering to the SD schools and with Augie it will just get worse.

    UMKC is a new market, they are a nobody in it but at least they won't be a parasite to the league. They are paying big for leaving the league to begin with, maybe if they had stayed their financial situation wouldn't be so bleak.
    All this right here, Sioux Falls garners zero interest from me to spend a weekend at a tournament, might be just me but i would love the MVC and going to St. Louis, Summit should have shot for Minneapolis if they wanted to stay upper Midwest. At least there is an attraction to go there for and world class food shopping. SF has zero attraction value for a casual fan

  6. #756
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    We are all so funny.

    The Summit could really use Augie. It's not about tv money (ha!) or excellence.

    It's

    1. Survival.
    2. Geographic coherence. footprint, footprint, footprint.
    3-10. Stuff the Summit League will never have to worry about, because they always have to deal with 1 & 2.
    Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
    Scrooge-"Are there no prisons?". "Plenty of prisons..."
    Scrooge-"And the Union workhouses." . "Are they still in operation?". "Both very busy, sir..."
    "Those who are badly off must go there."
    "Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
    Scrooge- "If they would rather die," "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

  7. #757
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bison bison View Post
    We are all so funny.

    The Summit could really use Augie. It's not about tv money (ha!) or excellence.

    It's

    1. Survival.
    2. Geographic coherence. footprint, footprint, footprint.
    3-10. Stuff the Summit League will never have to worry about, because they always have to deal with 1 & 2.
    Sadly that is true. The NCC was stable and we are always dealing with losses. Having 6 NCC schools make us as stable as any conference. Fort Wayne will jump on the first girl who smiles at them.

    I would love to see us achieve stability by expanding the footprint. Adding teams like New Mexico State, Seattle, and Phoenix gives the conference a big time feel. (Or at least bigger than Augustana)
    .


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  8. #758
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by HerdBot View Post
    Augustana Mens BB - 2,421
    Augustana Womens BB - 1,945

    I do like the fact UMKC is in a different and large market. Makes the league sound bigger but most fans would have to google what UMKC stands for. I also like how it stabilizes the other parts of our conference. We're never too far away from the league losing an autobid. Augustana secures that but alienates Oral Robert's and Denver while UMKC solves the problem without pissing off those schools but brings a mediocre program.

    This would legitimately be the NCC. From a stability standpoint, the NCC lasted almost 85 years and was arguably the best D2 conference out there. It routinely lead the nation in attendance. But it's the friggin NCC and that bores me.

    What would suck is having more NCC schools than new exciting opponents

    I dont want to turn into the WAC but New Mexico State, Grand Canyon, and Seattle sure sounds more interesting and fun than Augie.

    I would love to see
    SUMMIT EAST
    NDSU
    UND
    SDSU
    USD
    OMAHA
    Western Illinois
    UMKC

    SUMMIT WEST
    New Mexico State
    Seattle
    Grand Canyon
    UMKC
    Denver
    Oral Roberts
    Utah Valley

    Or just have 1 big giant conference full of good competition. Its 3 more teams than the Big Sky but interesting
    As I will continue to make clear, I don't have a preference on which way Augie does (or doesn't) go, but I do enjoy engaging in the conversation with you guys, so I hope you'll humor me for a second.

    Regarding the first thing in bold (the friggin NCC boring you): Do you feel like NDSU adding USD, UND, etc. has been a negative for the Summit? Does playing SDSU/USD/UND bore you? Asking genuinely, not in an accusatory tone. As an outsider looking in, reviving the rivalries between NDSU/SDSU/USD and now UND seems to be one of the best things to happen to the Summit League since NDSU has made the jump to D1. Again, that's just from the outside looking in. So what I'm trying to understand is why adding one more team from the NCC is such a negative when it seems adding so many other NCC teams has sort of energized the Summit League in (what appears to be) a pretty fun way. I've also seen multiple fans mention wanting to add Northern Colorado back in, which, unless I'm missing something, is also an old NCC school. Not saying you are saying that specifically, just that I've seen Northern Colorado come up more than once as a "let's add them back in" school.

    I know UNC is a different type of school than Augie and they're already D1, have had success at the D1 level, etc., but to be clear, when I talk about Augie going D1, I'm always working off of the assumption that the Augie administration is going to do it right and put the right financial support, institutional support, etc. into going Division I. As I've said more than once, I can understand how if Augie comes in with the same lackluster support of athletics that they suffered from in the 90s and early 2000s, I'd be disappointed as an XDSU or UXD fan too. And as an Augie fan. But if Augie does put the money together and has the pieces in place to be competitive, I don't see how an addition of that version of Augie is dramatically, dramatically worse than adding Northern Colorado back in (or adding another struggling school like UMKC...or already being in a league with a school like Western Illinois, which has constant budget issues and isn't really a power in the conference either). Again, it's all dependent on whether or not Augie's administration really steps it up vs. stumbling their way into an ill-advised transition.

    Next question regarding the second bolded section (the schools that sound more interesting and fun than Augie): It comes back around to the question I've asked before... has anyone heard from any sources that any of those three schools are even thinking about considering a switch to the Summit League? Because it's great to set your sights on 3 different, non-NCC schools in order to spice things up a bit, but you could also set your sights on adding Kansas, Duke, and Villanova to the Summit League, and if there's no interest from those schools, it would seem that thinking they'd be "more fun," while accurate, might still be unrealistic/unlikely.

    Also, if you're worried about schools (like Western Illinois) leaving and screwing up auto-bids, adding some of these teams like Seattle and adding a new strain on the travel budget might not be the best path for the survival of the Summit League. That being said, I don't know anywhere near as much about travel budgets and those kinds of things as others on here do, so it's possible that's a really misguided comment.

    Anyway, I'm not asking these questions to prove that Augie should go D1 or that the Summit would be dumb not to add Augie. I mostly just appreciate the conversation. Like I said before, if the decision gets made tomorrow for Augie to stay Division II, I'll be perfectly fine with that. Especially if it lets us put this conversation to bed permanently.

  9. #759
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    As I will continue to make clear, I don't have a preference on which way Augie does (or doesn't) go, but I do enjoy engaging in the conversation with you guys, so I hope you'll humor me for a second.

    Regarding the first thing in bold (the friggin NCC boring you): Do you feel like NDSU adding USD, UND, etc. has been a negative for the Summit? Does playing SDSU/USD/UND bore you? Asking genuinely, not in an accusatory tone. As an outsider looking in, reviving the rivalries between NDSU/SDSU/USD and now UND seems to be one of the best things to happen to the Summit League since NDSU has made the jump to D1. Again, that's just from the outside looking in. So what I'm trying to understand is why adding one more team from the NCC is such a negative when it seems adding so many other NCC teams has sort of energized the Summit League in (what appears to be) a pretty fun way. I've also seen multiple fans mention wanting to add Northern Colorado back in, which, unless I'm missing something, is also an old NCC school. Not saying you are saying that specifically, just that I've seen Northern Colorado come up more than once as a "let's add them back in" school.

    I know UNC is a different type of school than Augie and they're already D1, have had success at the D1 level, etc., but to be clear, when I talk about Augie going D1, I'm always working off of the assumption that the Augie administration is going to do it right and put the right financial support, institutional support, etc. into going Division I. As I've said more than once, I can understand how if Augie comes in with the same lackluster support of athletics that they suffered from in the 90s and early 2000s, I'd be disappointed as an XDSU or UXD fan too. And as an Augie fan. But if Augie does put the money together and has the pieces in place to be competitive, I don't see how an addition of that version of Augie is dramatically, dramatically worse than adding Northern Colorado back in (or adding another struggling school like UMKC...or already being in a league with a school like Western Illinois, which has constant budget issues and isn't really a power in the conference either). Again, it's all dependent on whether or not Augie's administration really steps it up vs. stumbling their way into an ill-advised transition.

    Next question regarding the second bolded section (the schools that sound more interesting and fun than Augie): It comes back around to the question I've asked before... has anyone heard from any sources that any of those three schools are even thinking about considering a switch to the Summit League? Because it's great to set your sights on 3 different, non-NCC schools in order to spice things up a bit, but you could also set your sights on adding Kansas, Duke, and Villanova to the Summit League, and if there's no interest from those schools, it would seem that thinking they'd be "more fun," while accurate, might still be unrealistic/unlikely.

    Also, if you're worried about schools (like Western Illinois) leaving and screwing up auto-bids, adding some of these teams like Seattle and adding a new strain on the travel budget might not be the best path for the survival of the Summit League. That being said, I don't know anywhere near as much about travel budgets and those kinds of things as others on here do, so it's possible that's a really misguided comment.

    Anyway, I'm not asking these questions to prove that Augie should go D1 or that the Summit would be dumb not to add Augie. I mostly just appreciate the conversation. Like I said before, if the decision gets made tomorrow for Augie to stay Division II, I'll be perfectly fine with that. Especially if it lets us put this conversation to bed permanently.

    USD, UND, and SDSU have always been rivals. Not trying to sound like a jerk but when Augie was in the NCC with the other 3 Dakota schools, they weren't very competitive. Check out the all time win records vs NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UND. That's when all things were EQUAL and we were all D2

    https://static.goaugie.com/custompag...m/HISTRESU.HTM

    Since 1990
    NDSU 6-24
    UND 8-32
    SDSU 6-26
    USD 11-30


    As far as costs rising to add western teams go, that's what you gotta do with D1 basketball. Not only are your costs going up, everything goes up. Your coach is awesome but what if SDSU loses their coach and then offers him double or triple? Can you afford to match? Dont they pay him like 300k? As far as recruiting goes, you need to offer full cost of attendance to all your player because most teams already do. Facilities?
    .


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  10. #760
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    This is serious business. Augie needs a plan to find at least five million dollars a year or it will be a total disaster.
    Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir."
    Scrooge-"Are there no prisons?". "Plenty of prisons..."
    Scrooge-"And the Union workhouses." . "Are they still in operation?". "Both very busy, sir..."
    "Those who are badly off must go there."
    "Many can't go there; and many would rather die."
    Scrooge- "If they would rather die," "they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population."

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