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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #1221
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bison"FANatic" View Post
    3 DI programs in the Dakotas is plenty.
    Well played

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  2. #1222
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bison"FANatic" View Post
    3 DI programs in the Dakotas is plenty.

  3. #1223
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Yes thank god. Need to aim higher than Augustana
    NDSU Athletics: oderint dum metuant


  4. #1224
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjbison View Post
    Yes thank god. Need to aim higher than Augustana
    My thoughts exactly.
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  5. #1225
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Recognizing that everyone not connected to Augustana appears to be happy with this, I'm not going to go too far out of my way to convince anyone that the Summit made a bad decision.

    That being said, I am curious about the following scenario, and would appreciate input from anyone who actually knows how this would go.

    Let's just say, as unlikely as it may be, that St. Thomas doesn't get approval to join the Summit League (yes, yes I know...very unlikely). If that were to happen, would the Summit then lose its baseball autobid? Or do they still have enough schools that it's not an issue?

    Second question: If St. Thomas doesn't get in and any other school leaves (Denver leaves, WIU closes because it's a dumpster fire of a school/situation with a consistently decreasing enrollment and lower endowment than Augustana and realistically has nothing positive going for it pretty much in any way but whatever we can ignore that for now), does the Summit lose its men's and women's basketball autobids?

    If the answer is yes to either/both of those questions, and the Summit realizes they have an emergency need to get the number of institutions up to where they need to be to keep those autobids, are they allowed to just invite schools at any time without having to wait for specific meetings or lengthy application processes or that kind of thing? For example, can they just invite Augustana in August if St. Thomas doesn't get approval to jump D3 to D1 and the Summit doesn't want to lose that baseball autobid? Or are there significantly more steps to the process than that?

    Again, I get it, everyone hates Augustana, it's a small private school that needs to stay in its place, it has too small of an endowment (even though it has a larger endowment than two of the schools currently in the Summit already), South Dakota isn't big enough for three D1s, etc. Just curious about what things will look like for the conference if St. Thomas doesn't make the jump and the Summit needs a solution sooner than later.

  6. #1226
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Recognizing that everyone not connected to Augustana appears to be happy with this, I'm not going to go too far out of my way to convince anyone that the Summit made a bad decision.
    Hey, we've been in Augustana's shoes before so I, for one, feel your pain. The hard thing is being so powerless. If it's the right decision in the long term, you just have to keep chugging along.

    On a brighter note, there is nothing preventing the Summit League from revisiting Augustana if the St. Thomas thing falls through.

  7. #1227

    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    The Summit schools won't just sit back and watch the auto bids go by the wayside, schools will add sports to get back into compliance with the NCAA, and the NCAA will grant the Summit League waivers til the newly added teams are up and running. Ten is the ideal number for a mid major conference, full round robin 18 game schedule, travel partners etc. If any Summit school leaves the conference I'd expect Augie to get serious consideration. Now a question for you Mr Augustana, if Augie wants to go D I why doesn't it explore other conference options, the WAC would be a good option they are always looking for new members.

  8. #1228
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrd View Post
    The Summit schools won't just sit back and watch the auto bids go by the wayside, schools will add sports to get back into compliance with the NCAA, and the NCAA will grant the Summit League waivers til the newly added teams are up and running. Ten is the ideal number for a mid major conference, full round robin 18 game schedule, travel partners etc. If any Summit school leaves the conference I'd expect Augie to get serious consideration. Now a question for you Mr Augustana, if Augie wants to go D I why doesn't it explore other conference options, the WAC would be a good option they are always looking for new members.
    I have no idea if they are or aren't exploring the WAC. If they are, I would for the most part be fine with that, as I personally feel like both our men's and women's basketball teams at least would likely be competitive in the WAC even sooner than they would be in the Summit. And based on the recent track records of our baseball and softball teams, I'd be confident in their abilities to compete sooner than later as well.

    But, in looking at the WAC's current members, I would assume the reason Augie won't strongly consider/pursue a WAC invite is the travel cost. The only bus ride even remotely possible is Chicago State, which I'd assume is a 6-8 hour bus ride, minimum. All 8 other schools would be flights, and that's only if Augustana bused to Chicago State. So basically airline flights for every single road game every season. It would get to be a lot. Especially when we are privately funding all of this and get no state funding in any way. Obviously if Augie is trying to go D1, they need to be able to put the funding together. But if it's already an "uphill climb" as Douple made quite apparent a few months ago (before he weirdly...and apparently falsely...changed his tune a few weeks ago when he talked about Augustana putting together an impressive plan), making that hill even steeper and higher isn't likely to be the best strategy.

    But here's a bigger question that I'm not sure anyone has really thought through (or at least vocalized as far as I can tell): what is the real benefit for Augie to join the WAC? Because I see it one of two ways, neither of which ends up positively for Augie if they're trying to get in the Summit.

    Option 1: Augustana goes to the WAC, struggles significantly, never really wins in (m)any sports, and generally has a disappointing dive into Division I athletics. I find it hard to believe after 3-5 years of that, the Summit eagerly calls up Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin and says, "Hey, we'd love for you to come be part of the Summit League."

    Option 2: Augustana goes to the WAC, competes significantly better than expected, possibly even earns an NCAA Tournament berth in the first 3-5 years of eligibility. Suddenly Sioux Falls is a little excited about this D1 thing, etc. If that happens, why on earth would SDSU and USD suddenly change their tunes about letting Augie in to the Summit League? In the Option 2 scenario, Augie is even more likely to steal away the precious fundraising that the SDSU and USD faithful are so scared of losing (to a school they consider pathetic and beneath them, mind you), and I can't imagine why they would suddenly be eager to include Augie in that mix on a more local level.

    It feels like, to me, neither option is overly appealing if Augie's goal is to be in the Summit League. And I doubt their goal of going D1 involves spending the next 20-30 years playing a bunch of California schools and random Utah/Arizona/etc. schools. And anyone who wants to say "If they really want to be D1 they should be happy with whatever they can get for as long as they have it" knows that's an unrealistic approach to a D1 transition. If that were the case, USD and UND would still be in the Big Sky. You want to be in the league that makes the most sense for your institution. In Augustana's case, that's clearly the Summit League, and I don't see how Augie benefits from going to the WAC first, unless there's a third scenario I'm not thinking through and someone would like to enlighten me.

    EDIT: I suppose, in theory, a third option that would be really awesome but probably the least likely would be Augie going to the WAC, doing extremely well early on, and earning an invite from the Horizon League after proving they have a stable, upward-trending Division I athletics program. But, before that gets picked apart by everyone on here, keep in mind that I'm already saying it's the least realistic option of the three.
    Last edited by MrAugustana; 05-31-2020 at 07:20 PM. Reason: Just remembered the Great West isn't a conference anymore, so I removed that comment from my post.

  9. #1229
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    I don't see the NCAA strictly adhering to minimum sport rules for the next five years.

    Hundreds of schools are going to be stopping sports. If theres no football season NDSU will be among them.
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  10. #1230
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bison bison View Post
    I don't see the NCAA strictly adhering to minimum sport rules for the next five years.

    Hundreds of schools are going to be stopping sports. If theres no football season NDSU will be among them.
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    “Iowa State athletic director Jamie Pollard warned of an "ice age" if the 2020 college football season isn't played. As bad as March Madness' cancellation was for schools, the shortfall was only a fraction of what football delivers: typically 80% of athletic budgets in a $6.5 billion industry.”

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