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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #981
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Hey, great input. You bring up good points. Augie should stop aspiring to be better and be happy settling for obscurity.

    Also, excellent work on ignoring the question I have directly asked you twice now.
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  2. #982
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Hey, great input. You bring up good points. Augie should stop aspiring to be better and be happy settling for obscurity.

    Also, excellent work on ignoring the question I have directly asked you twice now.
    Which question is that, you've thrown a lot up on the board here? The one about funding? I'm not worried about USD's ability for corporate sponsorship, the U will be able to get the funding it needs, however, that does not mean there won't be funds siphoned off, funds that could be used to be more than just adequate. I don't think there will be enough for Augustana long term as Daddy Warbucks is not going to live forever and, even then, it's not a good position to be so beholden to one mega-donor. Augie will limp along, underfunded, just like they did in the old NCC. The school is not ready for D1, not by any measure. Lack of facilities, lack of students, lack of resources, small endowment. I mean, you guys can't even build an outdoor track without having to cut back the project, that is a big alarm because D1 athletics is a big expenditure. What are you going to do with a 300 meter track?

    As far as obscurity, Augie is not obscure in the D2 world. Maybe that's where they belong.

  3. #983
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yote 53 View Post
    Which question is that, you've thrown a lot up on the board here? The one about funding? I'm not worried about USD's ability for corporate sponsorship, the U will be able to get the funding it needs, however, that does not mean there won't be funds siphoned off, funds that could be used to be more than just adequate. I don't think there will be enough for Augustana long term as Daddy Warbucks is not going to live forever and, even then, it's not a good position to be so beholden to one mega-donor. Augie will limp along, underfunded, just like they did in the old NCC. The school is not ready for D1, not by any measure. Lack of facilities, lack of students, lack of resources, small endowment. I mean, you guys can't even build an outdoor track without having to cut back the project, that is a big alarm because D1 athletics is a big expenditure. What are you going to do with a 300 meter track?

    As far as obscurity, Augie is not obscure in the D2 world. Maybe that's where they belong.
    Now you've gotten to a handful of points I actually agree with (or can at least understand your perspective on a little bit better), which I appreciate.

    Real quick though, regarding me throwing a lot of questions on the board, I don't know that that's entirely accurate. There have been 983 posts in this thread counting mine, and I can't have more than...25? 30? That's like, 3%, compared to 97% NDSU/USD/SDSU focused posts. It's more that I'm the only person on here representing one of the main schools being discussed in this Summit League expansion, so it feels like I'm posting a ton by comparison. That being said, it does feel a little bit like I'm pushing past the point of occasional contributor and into the territory of campaigner/lobbyist, which honestly isn't where I want to be, even if I enjoy the conversation. Recognizing that, while it has been the only local D1 board that has stayed fairly friendly/cordial with a visitor like me, it's probably best not to push my luck much further, so I'll likely cool out for a while after this post. (Sorry if I'm annoying you, NDSU fans.)

    On that note, this will be a long one. Won't be shocked if I get a tl:dr or something from people. But I'm on vacation so I have lots of time to write it out.

    Anyway, I 100% agree with you that Augie shouldn't be beholden to one mega-donor. It's not hard to find multiple posts from me in this thread where I clearly and unequivocally state things like, "If the Augustana administration doesn't have a long-term plan to secure funding for this jump, they absolutely should not try to make it." If it's clear and obvious we don't have--or won't be able to get--the funding, then I will be happy staying Division II. Will there be things about not making the jump that I'll find disappointing? Yes. But if the money isn't there, then we shouldn't do it. It's pretty plain and simple. And it can't just be the money for a year or three years or five years. The administration needs to be securing long-term sponsorship dollars from multiple organizations. If they don't do that and they put all of their eggs in one basket, then shame on them and I as an alum will be exceedingly disappointed.

    Nearly every time you post about Augustana's funding, you use the phrase "just like they did in the old NCC." I've mentioned this on here before, but nothing about Augie's current focus on athletics indicates they intend to go back to that level of a lack of focus/emphasis on athletics and athletic funding. "Back in the old NCC days," Augie didn't put money toward sports like they do now and they didn't have a president who saw higher-level sports success as being essential to building the name and brand of the university. In that regard, times have changed at Augie (despite your desperate desire to imply that they will go right back to where they were in the early 90s as soon as they jump to D1). We haven't won National Championships in basketball, baseball, and softball in the last three years because the administration has a vision (or lack of vision) like they did in the 90s. It's because they see athletic success as a means to higher level institutional success, and Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin has indicated as much in several speeches/presentations/etc.

    That being said, you bring up a good point about the track. As an alum, that was a disappointing development to read about. I don't know the details of what happened or why it unfolded that way, but I agree that if it's a reflection of what's to come at the D1 level rather than a one-time flub, then it certainly presents cause for concern and I hope those involved are learning from the experience now and ensuring it is an anomaly, not a future norm.

    Regarding your "lack of facilities" comment, we actually have solid facilities. The men's and women's basketball teams just signed a 10-year deal with the Pentagon and I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Pentagon. Fran Fraschilla was talking about it on ESPN as being an amazing facility during SDSU's NIT game against Texas and they weren't even playing that game in the Pentagon. Then Augie has a practice gym that was built 15 years ago and still holds up very nicely today. I'm sure the one SDSU recently built is better (especially if we ask SDSU fans), but I don't see anything from the photos of their new practice gym that makes me jealous or embarrassed by comparison. I actually think they're closer than SDSU fans would want to admit.

    The football stadium is probably on the small side, but if we go Pioneer League it would be one of the nicer football stadiums in that conference right out of the gate (for reference: http://fightmusic.com/wallpapers/pio...allpapers.html).

    I'm not a baseball/softball expert, but the renovated baseball and softball stadiums seem to be held in high regard around this region. And, you know, Augie actually has baseball and softball, which is a plus for the Summit.

    So yes, if you're just thinking about the Elmen Center when you think "facilities at Augie," then I can see why you'd be knocking it. But other than the track issue, Augie isn't that outclassed when it comes to facilities.

    Lack of students is accurate. Part of the success of this transition depends on the athletic department being able to take Augie from a place where the only fans are alums and turn it into a program where people are excited to follow the Vikings, even if they aren't alums. But I've watched friends who graduated from Nebraska or Dordt or wherever turn into HUGE Jackrabbit fans when SDSU makes the NCAA Tournament just because they are representing SD. If Augie can win and start to draw in fans like that on a consistent basis, we have a significantly populated area to pull casual fans from. I would imagine that's the hope/intention. Is it guaranteed though? Of course not.

    Small endowment - Augie's endowment is smaller, but if they went to the Summit League tomorrow, their endowment would only be 8th out of the 11 teams. So it's not so small that it's crippling or anything.

    A lot of your points in this argument center around Augie being "just like they were in the old NCC." None of the moves Augie has made in the past 10 years indicate that they are on track to fall back to that level. Will it be challenging? Of course. I don't think the Vikings will come in and win the Summit League Tournament the first year they are eligible, but it does appear that the administration has a bigger vision for Augie's future than any administration has had in the past.

    Like I said before (and have said multiple times), if it doesn't look like it's going to come together, it would be idiotic for Augie to try to go Division I. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin doesn't strike me as someone who wants that to be her legacy at Augie. My guess is that we will either secure the long-term funding that ensures we will have a chance to really be competitive at the D1 level, or we won't and we will back off of our intent to transition (which is still all Augie has announced so far).

    Anyway, I appreciate you actually taking a moment to respond to what I was asking. Sometimes I just like getting some specific clarification before I continue arguing on points that are unclear to me. This was helpful.

    I may still jump in once or twice on this topic, but hopefully I can back off for a while. I get the impression some of these NDSU fans would appreciate that.

  4. #984
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Now you've gotten to a handful of points I actually agree with (or can at least understand your perspective on a little bit better), which I appreciate.

    Real quick though, regarding me throwing a lot of questions on the board, I don't know that that's entirely accurate. There have been 983 posts in this thread counting mine, and I can't have more than...25? 30? That's like, 3%, compared to 97% NDSU/USD/SDSU focused posts. It's more that I'm the only person on here representing one of the main schools being discussed in this Summit League expansion, so it feels like I'm posting a ton by comparison. That being said, it does feel a little bit like I'm pushing past the point of occasional contributor and into the territory of campaigner/lobbyist, which honestly isn't where I want to be, even if I enjoy the conversation. Recognizing that, while it has been the only local D1 board that has stayed fairly friendly/cordial with a visitor like me, it's probably best not to push my luck much further, so I'll likely cool out for a while after this post. (Sorry if I'm annoying you, NDSU fans.)

    On that note, this will be a long one. Won't be shocked if I get a tl:dr or something from people. But I'm on vacation so I have lots of time to write it out.

    Anyway, I 100% agree with you that Augie shouldn't be beholden to one mega-donor. It's not hard to find multiple posts from me in this thread where I clearly and unequivocally state things like, "If the Augustana administration doesn't have a long-term plan to secure funding for this jump, they absolutely should not try to make it." If it's clear and obvious we don't have--or won't be able to get--the funding, then I will be happy staying Division II. Will there be things about not making the jump that I'll find disappointing? Yes. But if the money isn't there, then we shouldn't do it. It's pretty plain and simple. And it can't just be the money for a year or three years or five years. The administration needs to be securing long-term sponsorship dollars from multiple organizations. If they don't do that and they put all of their eggs in one basket, then shame on them and I as an alum will be exceedingly disappointed.

    Nearly every time you post about Augustana's funding, you use the phrase "just like they did in the old NCC." I've mentioned this on here before, but nothing about Augie's current focus on athletics indicates they intend to go back to that level of a lack of focus/emphasis on athletics and athletic funding. "Back in the old NCC days," Augie didn't put money toward sports like they do now and they didn't have a president who saw higher-level sports success as being essential to building the name and brand of the university. In that regard, times have changed at Augie (despite your desperate desire to imply that they will go right back to where they were in the early 90s as soon as they jump to D1). We haven't won National Championships in basketball, baseball, and softball in the last three years because the administration has a vision (or lack of vision) like they did in the 90s. It's because they see athletic success as a means to higher level institutional success, and Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin has indicated as much in several speeches/presentations/etc.

    That being said, you bring up a good point about the track. As an alum, that was a disappointing development to read about. I don't know the details of what happened or why it unfolded that way, but I agree that if it's a reflection of what's to come at the D1 level rather than a one-time flub, then it certainly presents cause for concern and I hope those involved are learning from the experience now and ensuring it is an anomaly, not a future norm.

    Regarding your "lack of facilities" comment, we actually have solid facilities. The men's and women's basketball teams just signed a 10-year deal with the Pentagon and I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Pentagon. Fran Fraschilla was talking about it on ESPN as being an amazing facility during SDSU's NIT game against Texas and they weren't even playing that game in the Pentagon. Then Augie has a practice gym that was built 15 years ago and still holds up very nicely today. I'm sure the one SDSU recently built is better (especially if we ask SDSU fans), but I don't see anything from the photos of their new practice gym that makes me jealous or embarrassed by comparison. I actually think they're closer than SDSU fans would want to admit.

    The football stadium is probably on the small side, but if we go Pioneer League it would be one of the nicer football stadiums in that conference right out of the gate (for reference: http://fightmusic.com/wallpapers/pio...allpapers.html).

    I'm not a baseball/softball expert, but the renovated baseball and softball stadiums seem to be held in high regard around this region. And, you know, Augie actually has baseball and softball, which is a plus for the Summit.

    So yes, if you're just thinking about the Elmen Center when you think "facilities at Augie," then I can see why you'd be knocking it. But other than the track issue, Augie isn't that outclassed when it comes to facilities.

    Lack of students is accurate. Part of the success of this transition depends on the athletic department being able to take Augie from a place where the only fans are alums and turn it into a program where people are excited to follow the Vikings, even if they aren't alums. But I've watched friends who graduated from Nebraska or Dordt or wherever turn into HUGE Jackrabbit fans when SDSU makes the NCAA Tournament just because they are representing SD. If Augie can win and start to draw in fans like that on a consistent basis, we have a significantly populated area to pull casual fans from. I would imagine that's the hope/intention. Is it guaranteed though? Of course not.

    Small endowment - Augie's endowment is smaller, but if they went to the Summit League tomorrow, their endowment would only be 8th out of the 11 teams. So it's not so small that it's crippling or anything.

    A lot of your points in this argument center around Augie being "just like they were in the old NCC." None of the moves Augie has made in the past 10 years indicate that they are on track to fall back to that level. Will it be challenging? Of course. I don't think the Vikings will come in and win the Summit League Tournament the first year they are eligible, but it does appear that the administration has a bigger vision for Augie's future than any administration has had in the past.

    Like I said before (and have said multiple times), if it doesn't look like it's going to come together, it would be idiotic for Augie to try to go Division I. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin doesn't strike me as someone who wants that to be her legacy at Augie. My guess is that we will either secure the long-term funding that ensures we will have a chance to really be competitive at the D1 level, or we won't and we will back off of our intent to transition (which is still all Augie has announced so far).

    Anyway, I appreciate you actually taking a moment to respond to what I was asking. Sometimes I just like getting some specific clarification before I continue arguing on points that are unclear to me. This was helpful.

    I may still jump in once or twice on this topic, but hopefully I can back off for a while. I get the impression some of these NDSU fans would appreciate that.
    your more than welcome to keep posting, people can read the thread or not read it, its refreshing to have an outside perspective that's not here to trash talk or antagonize

    now 1 point, WTF are you doing posting here on Vacation...come on man that's a yellow flag and 15 yd penalty
    NDSU Athletics: oderint dum metuant


  5. #985
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjbison View Post
    your more than welcome to keep posting, people can read the thread or not read it, its refreshing to have an outside perspective that's not here to trash talk or antagonize

    now 1 point, WTF are you doing posting here on Vacation...come on man that's a yellow flag and 15 yd penalty
    Maybe it’s a “staycation”. Does that change the call in any way?
    Don't believe everything you think.

  6. #986
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Now you've gotten to a handful of points I actually agree with (or can at least understand your perspective on a little bit better), which I appreciate.

    Real quick though, regarding me throwing a lot of questions on the board, I don't know that that's entirely accurate. There have been 983 posts in this thread counting mine, and I can't have more than...25? 30? That's like, 3%, compared to 97% NDSU/USD/SDSU focused posts. It's more that I'm the only person on here representing one of the main schools being discussed in this Summit League expansion, so it feels like I'm posting a ton by comparison. That being said, it does feel a little bit like I'm pushing past the point of occasional contributor and into the territory of campaigner/lobbyist, which honestly isn't where I want to be, even if I enjoy the conversation. Recognizing that, while it has been the only local D1 board that has stayed fairly friendly/cordial with a visitor like me, it's probably best not to push my luck much further, so I'll likely cool out for a while after this post. (Sorry if I'm annoying you, NDSU fans.)

    On that note, this will be a long one. Won't be shocked if I get a tl:dr or something from people. But I'm on vacation so I have lots of time to write it out.

    Anyway, I 100% agree with you that Augie shouldn't be beholden to one mega-donor. It's not hard to find multiple posts from me in this thread where I clearly and unequivocally state things like, "If the Augustana administration doesn't have a long-term plan to secure funding for this jump, they absolutely should not try to make it." If it's clear and obvious we don't have--or won't be able to get--the funding, then I will be happy staying Division II. Will there be things about not making the jump that I'll find disappointing? Yes. But if the money isn't there, then we shouldn't do it. It's pretty plain and simple. And it can't just be the money for a year or three years or five years. The administration needs to be securing long-term sponsorship dollars from multiple organizations. If they don't do that and they put all of their eggs in one basket, then shame on them and I as an alum will be exceedingly disappointed.

    Nearly every time you post about Augustana's funding, you use the phrase "just like they did in the old NCC." I've mentioned this on here before, but nothing about Augie's current focus on athletics indicates they intend to go back to that level of a lack of focus/emphasis on athletics and athletic funding. "Back in the old NCC days," Augie didn't put money toward sports like they do now and they didn't have a president who saw higher-level sports success as being essential to building the name and brand of the university. In that regard, times have changed at Augie (despite your desperate desire to imply that they will go right back to where they were in the early 90s as soon as they jump to D1). We haven't won National Championships in basketball, baseball, and softball in the last three years because the administration has a vision (or lack of vision) like they did in the 90s. It's because they see athletic success as a means to higher level institutional success, and Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin has indicated as much in several speeches/presentations/etc.

    That being said, you bring up a good point about the track. As an alum, that was a disappointing development to read about. I don't know the details of what happened or why it unfolded that way, but I agree that if it's a reflection of what's to come at the D1 level rather than a one-time flub, then it certainly presents cause for concern and I hope those involved are learning from the experience now and ensuring it is an anomaly, not a future norm.

    Regarding your "lack of facilities" comment, we actually have solid facilities. The men's and women's basketball teams just signed a 10-year deal with the Pentagon and I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Pentagon. Fran Fraschilla was talking about it on ESPN as being an amazing facility during SDSU's NIT game against Texas and they weren't even playing that game in the Pentagon. Then Augie has a practice gym that was built 15 years ago and still holds up very nicely today. I'm sure the one SDSU recently built is better (especially if we ask SDSU fans), but I don't see anything from the photos of their new practice gym that makes me jealous or embarrassed by comparison. I actually think they're closer than SDSU fans would want to admit.

    The football stadium is probably on the small side, but if we go Pioneer League it would be one of the nicer football stadiums in that conference right out of the gate (for reference: http://fightmusic.com/wallpapers/pio...allpapers.html).

    I'm not a baseball/softball expert, but the renovated baseball and softball stadiums seem to be held in high regard around this region. And, you know, Augie actually has baseball and softball, which is a plus for the Summit.

    So yes, if you're just thinking about the Elmen Center when you think "facilities at Augie," then I can see why you'd be knocking it. But other than the track issue, Augie isn't that outclassed when it comes to facilities.

    Lack of students is accurate. Part of the success of this transition depends on the athletic department being able to take Augie from a place where the only fans are alums and turn it into a program where people are excited to follow the Vikings, even if they aren't alums. But I've watched friends who graduated from Nebraska or Dordt or wherever turn into HUGE Jackrabbit fans when SDSU makes the NCAA Tournament just because they are representing SD. If Augie can win and start to draw in fans like that on a consistent basis, we have a significantly populated area to pull casual fans from. I would imagine that's the hope/intention. Is it guaranteed though? Of course not.

    Small endowment - Augie's endowment is smaller, but if they went to the Summit League tomorrow, their endowment would only be 8th out of the 11 teams. So it's not so small that it's crippling or anything.

    A lot of your points in this argument center around Augie being "just like they were in the old NCC." None of the moves Augie has made in the past 10 years indicate that they are on track to fall back to that level. Will it be challenging? Of course. I don't think the Vikings will come in and win the Summit League Tournament the first year they are eligible, but it does appear that the administration has a bigger vision for Augie's future than any administration has had in the past.

    Like I said before (and have said multiple times), if it doesn't look like it's going to come together, it would be idiotic for Augie to try to go Division I. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin doesn't strike me as someone who wants that to be her legacy at Augie. My guess is that we will either secure the long-term funding that ensures we will have a chance to really be competitive at the D1 level, or we won't and we will back off of our intent to transition (which is still all Augie has announced so far).

    Anyway, I appreciate you actually taking a moment to respond to what I was asking. Sometimes I just like getting some specific clarification before I continue arguing on points that are unclear to me. This was helpful.

    I may still jump in once or twice on this topic, but hopefully I can back off for a while. I get the impression some of these NDSU fans would appreciate that.
    Too short, did not read.

    Seriously, keep posting. Being objective and throwing some facts our there isn't something Bisonville is used to.
    North Dakota State, a football team the big boys of college football should avoid like the plague, helped christen a $90 million renovation to Snyder Family Stadium — including a statue of famed Kansas State coach Bill Snyder himself — by taking a sledgehammer to the place.
    Bob Lutz, The Wichita Eagle, August 30th, 2013

  7. #987
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    I'm not thrilled with Auggie but I do think adding them would be good for the Summit stability, along with UMKC. At this point it seems like this is going to happen.

    I can totally see why USD and SDSU don't want this to happen as it divides up the SD pie a bit more. I don't think NDSU really cares much either way other than for the stability of the conference.

    MrAugustana, keep posting, it's refreshing for someone to actually try to have a conversation on here.
    Last edited by Gully; 07-01-2019 at 01:04 AM.
    Get your BB tickets now!!!

  8. #988
    Tony Almeida is offline Senior Member Gets their mail at the West Parking Lot
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    I'm on the fence whether to add Auggie. Stability over recruiting pie and small time mentality or vice versa? I don't know how I feel about this yet...but where I'm NOT torn is whether they will be successful or not in the Summit. I have no doubt Auggie will be successful in the Summit, if they can win national championships in DII, then they can compete with teams in the Summit. The level of basketball, for example, is not that drastically different to begin with, but then add a championship caliber team to the mix? I think they will be just fine IF added.

  9. #989
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    They have been pretty clear about wanting to join the Summit but as far as I know very quiet about football.
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  10. #990
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Almeida View Post
    I'm on the fence whether to add Auggie. Stability over recruiting pie and small time mentality or vice versa? I don't know how I feel about this yet...but where I'm NOT torn is whether they will be successful or not in the Summit. I have no doubt Auggie will be successful in the Summit, if they can win national championships in DII, then they can compete with teams in the Summit. The level of basketball, for example, is not that drastically different to begin with, but then add a championship caliber team to the mix? I think they will be just fine IF added.
    With 10 schools we should be able to go back to Thursday and Saturday games. Augie would put is at 11.
    .


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