Summit Expansion?

[Yote 53]

It's not really Sanford money I am worried about. In fact, I don't think USD should get in any deeper with him. He's going to buy Augustana, not just the athletic department, but the entire school. This is becoming pretty obvious. I am looking at the overall corporate base in South Dakota and just wonder if it is deep enough for 3 D1 schools. I know that USD is spreading it's base deeper into Iowa. There are a lot of students coming in from Iowa, there always has been, but with in-state tuition available to Iowa residents there are a lot more Iowans that are seeing USD as a great value in education, SDSU as well. Stands to reason corporate sponsorship will be sought out in Sioux City/NW Iowa as well.

[tony]

It's not really Sanford money I am worried about. In fact, I don't think USD should get in any deeper with him. He's going to buy Augustana, not just the athletic department, but the entire school. This is becoming pretty obvious. I am looking at the overall corporate base in South Dakota and just wonder if it is deep enough for 3 D1 schools. I know that USD is spreading it's base deeper into Iowa. There are a lot of students coming in from Iowa, there always has been, but with in-state tuition available to Iowa residents there are a lot more Iowans that are seeing USD as a great value in education, SDSU as well. Stands to reason corporate sponsorship will be sought out in Sioux City/NW Iowa as well.

If Augie joins, then it's probably better that they have money than the other way around. Don't want them anywhere near the MVFC myself though. Summit? Like you said, they are going to take a slice from a finite pie. At least they have baseball.

[MrAugustana]

It's not really Sanford money I am worried about. In fact, I don't think USD should get in any deeper with him. He's going to buy Augustana, not just the athletic department, but the entire school. This is becoming pretty obvious. I am looking at the overall corporate base in South Dakota and just wonder if it is deep enough for 3 D1 schools. I know that USD is spreading it's base deeper into Iowa. There are a lot of students coming in from Iowa, there always has been, but with in-state tuition available to Iowa residents there are a lot more Iowans that are seeing USD as a great value in education, SDSU as well. Stands to reason corporate sponsorship will be sought out in Sioux City/NW Iowa as well.

You're still not answering my question. If corporations see more value in sponsoring Augie than the Dakota 4, wouldn't that be an indication that Augie at least deserves to be part of this conversation?

You said "Every dollar they give to Augustana is a potential dollar that could have gone towards one of the 4 other schools." Well of course that's the case. It's the case for every single team in the conference. Every dollar a company gives to SDSU is a dollar that could have gone to USD too. But you don't fault SDSU for doing the work and raising the money and then claim it's bad to have SDSU in the conference because of it.

If Augustana is as pathetic as you frequently post about it being, why is any of this a concern to you at all? If the program is that terrible, guess what--companies won't keep giving them money and USD will be just fine. But if Augie raises the money to be competitive because companies see value in it, then they aren't going to be a drag on the conference anyway. Either way, it's not like Augustana's administration is going around and forcing CEO's and finance people of local/regional corporations to give them money at gunpoint.

There's a difference between, "Augustana shouldn't go D1 because it's bad for the Summit League" and "Augustana shouldn't go D1 because it makes me upset that my school will have less financial opportunity." If Augie is able to come in, raise money, and be competitive, the only people who lose are the fans of the programs Augie is beating. If Augie doesn't raise the money, they won't go D1 in the first place. And if they come in, raise money, and suck anyway, then it won't be long before they are out of the conference and you're back where you want to be, looking down your nose at Augustana.

[MrAugustana]

Serious question for Mr Augustana is the Augie fan base, alumni, students and boosters asking to move up to DI? The reason I ask is because I don't see this as grassroots movement, I see it as people in power in SF wanting this to happen so SF can be part of a legitimate sports league. The Canaries are about done, the G-League is kind of meh in basketball, I'll give you the Stampede they are legit but Sioux Falls wants to part of something significant in the world of sports. That is what pisses me off, we already have SDSU and USD within an hour of SF and the fan support from that city is mediocre to lacking, as I've said before SF doesn't travel. Also I agree with Yote 53 above, businesses allocate X number of dollars to donate for collegiate athletics the pot will now be divided three ways instead of two. I don't hate Augie but everything about it says DII or NAIA, your a small private school with limited resources, it's where you have thrived in the recent past and where you should stay. Football in the Pioneer League will be expensive with travel and will eventually fail, it wouldn't surprise me to see Augie dropping football within 10 years of moving up, which would be a shame.

I'm not sure if you're an NDSU fan or a USD/SDSU fan. If you're an NDSU fan, it's possible you don't remember that, while there were a number of people who saw value in USD and SDSU going D1, there were also a TON of alums of both schools (not to mention many local media people) who thought it was insane/absurd that they would try to go Division I, and were very vocal in their opposition of that move. Everyone I know and am friends with personally is pumped about the idea of Augie going D1. I'm sure there are plenty of other alums and fans who aren't. But I think that has been the case with every one of the local schools that has jumped from D2 to D1.

Regarding your point about "it's where you have thrived and it's where you should stay," I'm going to re-use something I posted on the D2 message board that addresses the exact point you're making. I posted this about a month ago after Augie won the D2 National Championship in women's softball.

I've seen lots of folks respond to the Augie-to-D1 discussion with a line like, "Why can't Augie just be happy being one of the top athletic programs in D2?"

Three days ago Augie won a National Championship in women's softball in what was almost inarguably its most successful season in school history. We're not talking about a conference championship. We're not talking about a regional championship. A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. The best team in the entire sport nationwide.

Other than Augie-produced materials (website articles, tweets, etc.), I'm not sure it's even being talked about anymore in any of the local media in any way other than the initial news stories of the win itself. It's only been THREE DAYS. And even in the buildup of postseason games getting the Vikes to the National Championship run, it was a handful of Argus articles and a few TV news stories.

Now think about what happens when all of the local D1s even remotely succeed in the postseason. SDSU's appearances and success in the Summit League tournament (reminder: CONFERENCE tournament) as well as any resulting appearances in the NCAA Tournament (men's and women's) get weeks of coverage. Almost daily from the start of the Summit League Tourney until the team's season ends. (This includes special interest pieces on individual players, stories about the excitement for players in the postseason, etc. Essentially none of that has taken place in this National Championship run for the Augie softball team.)

Think about USD and the hype they got as their women progressed in the Women's NIT.

Then there's the 24-hour, 7-day a week coverage NDSU gets from the Fargo Forum and other local Fargo media during and even after football season. Throw in their men's basketball team's success the past several years and the hype that has earned and the coverage/attention is remarkable.

To be clear, I completely understand that those are larger universities with a significant alumni base and student population. I also know softball isn't football or basketball. But when a National Championship in a still reasonably popular sport doesn't get more than 2-3 days of coverage (and a few articles leading up to the National Championship), it's hard for me to see how it's more fun to "reign at the top of D2 athletics" by comparison to the attention the D1s are drawing for lesser accomplishments.

Right now, the media cares very little about Augustana. So if a move to D1 makes our university comparatively relevant in the media landscape and helps bring better national recognition to Augustana University, then I'm all for improving that visibility and name recognition.

If you're an NDSU fan, you've basically never experienced being irrelevant in the local landscape of colleges and universities. Which is great. More power to you. But as an Augie fan, I'm tired of seeing our university get completely ignored for two weeks of Summit League Tournament coverage, the 11th Mike Daum feature story of the season, and a week straight of "NDSU has won yet another National Championship in football and oh guess what now it's time to start next year's NDSU football coverage because they're going to win it again next year."

Augie chose not to go D1 ten years ago and, in spite of having now won three D2 National Championships in decently significant sports in the past 3 years, we are somehow becoming even more irrelevant than we were 10 years ago. I would rather see us try to take on the next level and possibly win than continue being the left behind little brother that nobody gives a crap about.

[Vet70]

I'm not sure if you're an NDSU fan or a USD/SDSU fan. If you're an NDSU fan, it's possible you don't remember that, while there were a number of people who saw value in USD and SDSU going D1, there were also a TON of alums of both schools (not to mention many local media people) who thought it was insane/absurd that they would try to go Division I, and were very vocal in their opposition of that move. Everyone I know and am friends with personally is pumped about the idea of Augie going D1. I'm sure there are plenty of other alums and fans who aren't. But I think that has been the case with every one of the local schools that has jumped from D2 to D1.

Regarding your point about "it's where you have thrived and it's where you should stay," I'm going to re-use something I posted on the D2 message board that addresses the exact point you're making. I posted this about a month ago after Augie won the D2 National Championship in women's softball.



Right now, the media cares very little about Augustana. So if a move to D1 makes our university comparatively relevant in the media landscape and helps bring better national recognition to Augustana University, then I'm all for improving that visibility and name recognition.

If you're an NDSU fan, you've basically never experienced being irrelevant in the local landscape of colleges and universities. Which is great. More power to you. But as an Augie fan, I'm tired of seeing our university get completely ignored for two weeks of Summit League Tournament coverage, the 11th Mike Daum feature story of the season, and a week straight of "NDSU has won yet another National Championship in football and oh guess what now it's time to start next year's NDSU football coverage because they're going to win it again next year."

Augie chose not to go D1 ten years ago and, in spite of having now won three D2 National Championships in decently significant sports in the past 3 years, we are somehow becoming even more irrelevant than we were 10 years ago. I would rather see us try to take on the next level and possibly win than continue being the left behind little brother that nobody gives a crap about.

Not trying to pick a fight, but in a number of your posts bitterness and/or an inferiority complex comes through loud and clear.

[MrAugustana]

Not trying to pick a fight, but in a number of your posts bitterness and/or an inferiority complex comes through loud and clear.

Sure. So two quick thoughts on that:

1) It makes sense that an inferiority complex comes through. My post was literally about how Augie is becoming increasingly inferior to the D1 schools and why I'm not a fan of that or what it means for Augie's future. So...yeah...no argument there.

2) I will argue that, if you were around me in person, you would quickly recognize that none of this is said with bitterness (or at least is not intended to come off as bitter). Generally I'm very lighthearted about this topic. When I make jokes about the Fargo media's coverage about the Bison, for example, it's being said with a smiling envy, not a bitter jealousy. If it doesn't come off that way when you're reading it, I apologize. My intent is rarely to get inflammatory or be overly defensive or whatever. It's more just that I'm giving my perspective on a topic (that heavily involves my alma mater) in the only local D1 forum that generally tends to be reasonable with my interactions rather than saying, "Augie sucks, get off our message board."

So I don't think you're trying to pick a fight and I appreciate your feedback. Again, nothing is said here in a "You all suck, Augie is the best" kind of tone. It's more just wanting to understand some of the logic and reasoning that isn't entirely clear to me (as demonstrated in my responses to Yote 53).

[Vet70]

Sure. So two quick thoughts on that:

1) It makes sense that an inferiority complex comes through. My post was literally about how Augie is becoming increasingly inferior to the D1 schools and why I'm not a fan of that or what it means for Augie's future. So...yeah...no argument there.

2) I will argue that, if you were around me in person, you would quickly recognize that none of this is said with bitterness (or at least is not intended to come off as bitter). Generally I'm very lighthearted about this topic. When I make jokes about the Fargo media's coverage about the Bison, for example, it's being said with a smiling envy, not a bitter jealousy. If it doesn't come off that way when you're reading it, I apologize. My intent is rarely to get inflammatory or be overly defensive or whatever. It's more just that I'm giving my perspective on a topic (that heavily involves my alma mater) in the only local D1 forum that generally tends to be reasonable with my interactions rather than saying, "Augie sucks, get off our message board."

So I don't think you're trying to pick a fight and I appreciate your feedback. Again, nothing is said here in a "You all suck, Augie is the best" kind of tone. It's more just wanting to understand some of the logic and reasoning that isn't entirely clear to me (as demonstrated in my responses to Yote 53).

1. Never apologize on BV, it is a sign of weakness and it will cause a feeding frenzy.
2. It depends on what your intentions are with your football program.

[tjbison]

1. Never apologize on BV, it is a sign of weakness and it will cause a feeding frenzy.
2. It depends on what your intentions are with your football program.

aint no way MVFC lets in another Dakota school..zero chance IMO

Especially a small private school

[Yote 53]

I'm not sure if you're an NDSU fan or a USD/SDSU fan. If you're an NDSU fan, it's possible you don't remember that, while there were a number of people who saw value in USD and SDSU going D1, there were also a TON of alums of both schools (not to mention many local media people) who thought it was insane/absurd that they would try to go Division I, and were very vocal in their opposition of that move. Everyone I know and am friends with personally is pumped about the idea of Augie going D1. I'm sure there are plenty of other alums and fans who aren't. But I think that has been the case with every one of the local schools that has jumped from D2 to D1.

Regarding your point about "it's where you have thrived and it's where you should stay," I'm going to re-use something I posted on the D2 message board that addresses the exact point you're making. I posted this about a month ago after Augie won the D2 National Championship in women's softball.



Right now, the media cares very little about Augustana. So if a move to D1 makes our university comparatively relevant in the media landscape and helps bring better national recognition to Augustana University, then I'm all for improving that visibility and name recognition.

If you're an NDSU fan, you've basically never experienced being irrelevant in the local landscape of colleges and universities. Which is great. More power to you. But as an Augie fan, I'm tired of seeing our university get completely ignored for two weeks of Summit League Tournament coverage, the 11th Mike Daum feature story of the season, and a week straight of "NDSU has won yet another National Championship in football and oh guess what now it's time to start next year's NDSU football coverage because they're going to win it again next year."

Augie chose not to go D1 ten years ago and, in spite of having now won three D2 National Championships in decently significant sports in the past 3 years, we are somehow becoming even more irrelevant than we were 10 years ago. I would rather see us try to take on the next level and possibly win than continue being the left behind little brother that nobody gives a crap about.

So a small, private, liberal arts school is not viewed in the same light as the two State Universities? Gee, no kidding, because they shouldn't be. You reference Augie as not wanting to be the left behind little brother, but what you are failing to realize is they aren't even related to USD and SDSU. USF is your sibling. Morningside is your sibling. Concordia-St Paul is your sibling. Those are your peer schools, not the state schools in the Dakotas.

[MrAugustana]

So a small, private, liberal arts school is not viewed in the same light as the two State Universities? Gee, no kidding, because they shouldn't be. You reference Augie as not wanting to be the left behind little brother, but what you are failing to realize is they aren't even related to USD and SDSU. USF is your sibling. Morningside is your sibling. Concordia-St Paul is your sibling. Those are your peer schools, not the state schools in the Dakotas.

Hey, great input. You bring up good points. Augie should stop aspiring to be better and be happy settling for obscurity.

Also, excellent work on ignoring the question I have directly asked you twice now.