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Thread: Summit Expansion?

  1. #991
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vet70 View Post
    They have been pretty clear about wanting to join the Summit but as far as I know very quiet about football.
    They have been kind of cryptic from the stuff I have heard out of SF regarding football. I've heard the Pioneer League being tossed around as an option but then I read a conflicting quote from Kelby Krabbenhoft where he mentions fully funding for FCS football, that they would start non-scholarship, or underfunded, and build up to fully funded. I had to assume they intend to be in the MVFC because there are no other fully funded FCS football conferences in the region, well, except for the Big Sky, and I don't see that happening. Maybe that was just a smoke screen to keep the football people at Augie pacified. I've read snippets where the Augie people say that no sports will be cut in this move. I don't believe it. I fully believe that if Augie tries to go D1 there is a very good chance football will get cut, and I'm positive wrestling will be on the chopping block. The money just isn't going to be there to have it all.

  2. #992
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrAugustana View Post
    Now you've gotten to a handful of points I actually agree with (or can at least understand your perspective on a little bit better), which I appreciate.

    Real quick though, regarding me throwing a lot of questions on the board, I don't know that that's entirely accurate. There have been 983 posts in this thread counting mine, and I can't have more than...25? 30? That's like, 3%, compared to 97% NDSU/USD/SDSU focused posts. It's more that I'm the only person on here representing one of the main schools being discussed in this Summit League expansion, so it feels like I'm posting a ton by comparison. That being said, it does feel a little bit like I'm pushing past the point of occasional contributor and into the territory of campaigner/lobbyist, which honestly isn't where I want to be, even if I enjoy the conversation. Recognizing that, while it has been the only local D1 board that has stayed fairly friendly/cordial with a visitor like me, it's probably best not to push my luck much further, so I'll likely cool out for a while after this post. (Sorry if I'm annoying you, NDSU fans.)

    On that note, this will be a long one. Won't be shocked if I get a tl:dr or something from people. But I'm on vacation so I have lots of time to write it out.

    Anyway, I 100% agree with you that Augie shouldn't be beholden to one mega-donor. It's not hard to find multiple posts from me in this thread where I clearly and unequivocally state things like, "If the Augustana administration doesn't have a long-term plan to secure funding for this jump, they absolutely should not try to make it." If it's clear and obvious we don't have--or won't be able to get--the funding, then I will be happy staying Division II. Will there be things about not making the jump that I'll find disappointing? Yes. But if the money isn't there, then we shouldn't do it. It's pretty plain and simple. And it can't just be the money for a year or three years or five years. The administration needs to be securing long-term sponsorship dollars from multiple organizations. If they don't do that and they put all of their eggs in one basket, then shame on them and I as an alum will be exceedingly disappointed.

    Nearly every time you post about Augustana's funding, you use the phrase "just like they did in the old NCC." I've mentioned this on here before, but nothing about Augie's current focus on athletics indicates they intend to go back to that level of a lack of focus/emphasis on athletics and athletic funding. "Back in the old NCC days," Augie didn't put money toward sports like they do now and they didn't have a president who saw higher-level sports success as being essential to building the name and brand of the university. In that regard, times have changed at Augie (despite your desperate desire to imply that they will go right back to where they were in the early 90s as soon as they jump to D1). We haven't won National Championships in basketball, baseball, and softball in the last three years because the administration has a vision (or lack of vision) like they did in the 90s. It's because they see athletic success as a means to higher level institutional success, and Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin has indicated as much in several speeches/presentations/etc.

    That being said, you bring up a good point about the track. As an alum, that was a disappointing development to read about. I don't know the details of what happened or why it unfolded that way, but I agree that if it's a reflection of what's to come at the D1 level rather than a one-time flub, then it certainly presents cause for concern and I hope those involved are learning from the experience now and ensuring it is an anomaly, not a future norm.

    Regarding your "lack of facilities" comment, we actually have solid facilities. The men's and women's basketball teams just signed a 10-year deal with the Pentagon and I don't know anyone who doesn't like the Pentagon. Fran Fraschilla was talking about it on ESPN as being an amazing facility during SDSU's NIT game against Texas and they weren't even playing that game in the Pentagon. Then Augie has a practice gym that was built 15 years ago and still holds up very nicely today. I'm sure the one SDSU recently built is better (especially if we ask SDSU fans), but I don't see anything from the photos of their new practice gym that makes me jealous or embarrassed by comparison. I actually think they're closer than SDSU fans would want to admit.

    The football stadium is probably on the small side, but if we go Pioneer League it would be one of the nicer football stadiums in that conference right out of the gate (for reference: http://fightmusic.com/wallpapers/pio...allpapers.html).

    I'm not a baseball/softball expert, but the renovated baseball and softball stadiums seem to be held in high regard around this region. And, you know, Augie actually has baseball and softball, which is a plus for the Summit.

    So yes, if you're just thinking about the Elmen Center when you think "facilities at Augie," then I can see why you'd be knocking it. But other than the track issue, Augie isn't that outclassed when it comes to facilities.

    Lack of students is accurate. Part of the success of this transition depends on the athletic department being able to take Augie from a place where the only fans are alums and turn it into a program where people are excited to follow the Vikings, even if they aren't alums. But I've watched friends who graduated from Nebraska or Dordt or wherever turn into HUGE Jackrabbit fans when SDSU makes the NCAA Tournament just because they are representing SD. If Augie can win and start to draw in fans like that on a consistent basis, we have a significantly populated area to pull casual fans from. I would imagine that's the hope/intention. Is it guaranteed though? Of course not.

    Small endowment - Augie's endowment is smaller, but if they went to the Summit League tomorrow, their endowment would only be 8th out of the 11 teams. So it's not so small that it's crippling or anything.

    A lot of your points in this argument center around Augie being "just like they were in the old NCC." None of the moves Augie has made in the past 10 years indicate that they are on track to fall back to that level. Will it be challenging? Of course. I don't think the Vikings will come in and win the Summit League Tournament the first year they are eligible, but it does appear that the administration has a bigger vision for Augie's future than any administration has had in the past.

    Like I said before (and have said multiple times), if it doesn't look like it's going to come together, it would be idiotic for Augie to try to go Division I. Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin doesn't strike me as someone who wants that to be her legacy at Augie. My guess is that we will either secure the long-term funding that ensures we will have a chance to really be competitive at the D1 level, or we won't and we will back off of our intent to transition (which is still all Augie has announced so far).

    Anyway, I appreciate you actually taking a moment to respond to what I was asking. Sometimes I just like getting some specific clarification before I continue arguing on points that are unclear to me. This was helpful.

    I may still jump in once or twice on this topic, but hopefully I can back off for a while. I get the impression some of these NDSU fans would appreciate that.
    Keep posting. You bring good info to the thread. We can debate and go back and forth on this, as you can see I am 100% against Augie making this transition for many reasons. It might surprise you that one of them is the level of success the Vikings are currently having in D2. I know some local kids that are looking at Augie for wrestling and baseball. I think it's great that local kids have a D2 national championship contending local option. That goes away if Augie moves up. I suppose those kids will find other options and places like USF will be the beneficiary.

  3. #993
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    I thought bringing und and usd made the summit a pud league, so it doesn't matter anymore
    I WANT TO THANK TONY < JAIL & EL CHAPO DONT MIX > FBS or BUST enough with this small timey stuff, "Bring on the Competition" is our motto right?

  4. #994
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Chapo View Post
    I thought bringing und and usd made the summit a pud league, so it doesn't matter anymore
    LOL, much rather associate with Centenary and Chicago State, huh.

    Funny, because if USD hadn't snubbed the Big Sky for the Summit/MVFC the Summit would have folded years ago and there would be no conference. All 4 of the Dakota schools would probably be in the Big Sky at this point, there would be no successful Summit League Tournament in Sioux Falls, the Summit League offices would not be located there because the conference wouldn't exist, and Augustana is not even thinking of moving up to D1.

    We'd actually all be in a much better situation as we would be that much closer to the ultimate goal of the Big North conference as by now the Montanas would have probably approached us about breaking the Big Sky in half as it has become to unwieldy. I blame this all on USD.

  5. #995
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yote 53 View Post
    They have been kind of cryptic from the stuff I have heard out of SF regarding football. I've heard the Pioneer League being tossed around as an option but then I read a conflicting quote from Kelby Krabbenhoft where he mentions fully funding for FCS football, that they would start non-scholarship, or underfunded, and build up to fully funded. I had to assume they intend to be in the MVFC because there are no other fully funded FCS football conferences in the region, well, except for the Big Sky, and I don't see that happening. Maybe that was just a smoke screen to keep the football people at Augie pacified. I've read snippets where the Augie people say that no sports will be cut in this move. I don't believe it. I fully believe that if Augie tries to go D1 there is a very good chance football will get cut, and I'm positive wrestling will be on the chopping block. The money just isn't going to be there to have it all.
    What, pray tell, would the Augie folks do with Kirkheide/Over stadium, which is a fairly new facility and very nice, if they dropped football? Dropping football is not an option.

  6. #996
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by southcliffbison View Post
    What, pray tell, would the Augie folks do with Kirkheide/Over stadium, which is a fairly new facility and very nice, if they dropped football? Dropping football is not an option.
    Probably the same thing UNO did with their stadium, or Wichita State. I dunno.

  7. #997
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yote 53 View Post
    LOL, much rather associate with Centenary and Chicago State, huh.

    Funny, because if USD hadn't snubbed the Big Sky for the Summit/MVFC the Summit would have folded years ago and there would be no conference. All 4 of the Dakota schools would probably be in the Big Sky at this point, there would be no successful Summit League Tournament in Sioux Falls, the Summit League offices would not be located there because the conference wouldn't exist, and Augustana is not even thinking of moving up to D1.

    We'd actually all be in a much better situation as we would be that much closer to the ultimate goal of the Big North conference as by now the Montanas would have probably approached us about breaking the Big Sky in half as it has become to unwieldy. I blame this all on USD.
    This isn't what you were going for, but we could still form a Big North FBS/Mid-Major conference with the critical mass of 4 Dakota and 2 Montana schools. Is it difficult/impossible for an entire conference to form? How did the AAC do it? That would almost make the most sense rather than NDSU trying to go it alone and wait for an invite from the amazing MAC or MW.
    "It's important in this life to dream big" - Brock Jensen during one of Kolpack and Izzo's pregame shows of the 2014 season.

    "If you quit now, you quit for the rest of your life" - Chris Board 8/17/16 in the forum article.

  8. #998
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by southcliffbison View Post
    What, pray tell, would the Augie folks do with Kirkheide/Over stadium, which is a fairly new facility and very nice, if they dropped football? Dropping football is not an option.
    Nebraska-Omaha was in a similar situation and Trev Alberts didn't flinch when he dropped football and wrestling.
    Hail the BISON!!!

  9. #999
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Moen View Post
    Nebraska-Omaha was in a similar situation and Trev Alberts didn't flinch when he dropped football and wrestling.
    Sioux Falls is not Omaha. Josh Morton is not Trev Alberts

  10. #1000
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    Default Re: Summit Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by southcliffbison View Post
    Sioux Falls is not Omaha. Josh Morton is not Trev Alberts
    Omaha had a lot more to lose by sacrificing football (big donors) and wrestling (schoolís most successful program that actually brought in money) than Augustana would if they dropped football.

    I donít know anything about Morton, but I donít think he ever reaches the Richard-level that Trev is.


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