Bill to keep Sioux nickname

[Notorious]

Not trying to pick a fight here, and I can see good points on both sides. However, one point people never mention is that no one is forcing NDSU, Und or any other school to be members of the NCAA. If you want to participate in the NCAA, you have to play by their rules, whether you like them or not (and I can think of a bunch I don't like).

Exactly...and to the point about publicity for Carlson....be careful what you wish for...he may not survive this.

Now, if only he would draft a bill to legislate a football game between teh und and NDSU.

[bisonsupporter]

I'm wondering how all of this is going to effect recruiting and scheduling for all sports? If I was a UND recruit, would I want to go to a school that can not figure out their own nickname? How much of this whining and complaining about the nickname and logo is costing the university revenue?

Are either of these bills constitutional? If I were a UND fan maybe I would have a different take on the subject, but a ruling has been made, get over it. They could have had a new logo and nickname for people to get behind. They could be selling merchandise with the new logo and nickname and making money, and not spending who knows what insane amount of money just to complain.

UND would be better off by announcing a new logo and nickname. After a couple months of complaining people would get over it. Does a logo or nickname really affect if you are a supporter or fan of a university?

[80ALUM]

What I find interesting is all the support shown for the State Board of Higher Education by those who are anti-NDSU as long as the Board is reprimanding NDSU for their spending mishaps but yet will not support the Board's position on the nickname situation.
Seems like the Board's authority is only respected when ruling in favor of UND.

[THEsocalledfan]

Not trying to pick a fight here, and I can see good points on both sides. However, one point people never mention is that no one is forcing NDSU, Und or any other school to be members of the NCAA. If you want to participate in the NCAA, you have to play by their rules, whether you like them or not (and I can think of a bunch I don't like).

Agree with this, but the NCAA is so big, you can also argue that it is not very "voluntary." I admit that this is what killed UND in court.

[THEsocalledfan]

Well, considering it affects their tribe directly, UND should have to follow the requirements set forth by the NCAA.

Thanks for the apology, but your comment above implies that the NCAA is speaking for the tribes. This is where I clearly disagree. The NCAA is a group of faculty elite presidents/chancellors who want to remake America in their politically correct image. I even wonder how many even have any Native blood? This idea they are speaking for the tribes cracks me up to no end.

I have come around that the tribes should be able to decide their own fate, but Standing Rock does not seem to be getting any chance to do so. Something fishy is going on with that council that they will not even allow folks to vote? If they are so sure the tribe is opposed, prove it and I will sink into my little hole. That is what Spirit Lake did, and the silent majority was finally able to speak their will.

[THEsocalledfan]

Exactly...and to the point about publicity for Carlson....be careful what you wish for...he may not survive this.

Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

[Ferd]

It was my understanding that UND, the SBOHE, and the State of North Dakota settled the lawsuit by agreeing to specific conditions. Agreement from all of the tribes was not received in the allocated time so we must change the nickname... something that is happening now.

While I could care less about the name, and I agree the NCAA executive board is ramrodding this thing, I would hope that our Legislators would spend their limited session time dealing with some of the real, critical problems affecting our state.

But that's just my opinion.

YMMV

[NorthernBison]

Agree with this, but the NCAA is so big, you can also argue that it is not very "voluntary." I admit that this is what killed UND in court.

The case was ultimately settled out of court.

So, the NCAA settled in good faith with the State Board of Higher Education in 2007 after both sides spent millions of dollars on legal fees. The SBoHE was Represented by the North Dakota Attorney General who is coincidentally still the Attorney General. THe SBoHE is ultimately responsible to the Legislature right? But that same Legislature had no official problem with the settlement until now? The Iraqi Senate seems more organized than these clowns in Bismarck.

If this stupid bill were to pass and the State proceeded to file suit against the NCAA, who would represent the State? Probably the AG. What exactly does he say when the NCAA pulls out the settlement agreement that he helped draft and probably signed?

Must be fun to be a lawyer.

BTW, the second bill by Monson is even better. It looks like he is actually trying to force SR to vote. That might not be a good idea.

[Notorious]

Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

I just think there will be some negative backlash. While I agree with your underlying arguement, I don't think this is the particular issue to "lead the charge" for democracy????

More negative, than positive, will ultilmately come from this....I think.

[tony]

Why would he not survive? You think we is misreading his tea leaves? Looks to me he is hitting a homerun.

Pfft. It's grandstanding. I suppose there is about a 1% chance that UND will "win" this fight and thus ensure another 50 years of controversy but it will cost millions of dollars.

Here's the problem I have:

Tom Clifford said that if the Tribal Councils formally objected to the nickname, then UND would have no ethical alternative but to drop the nickname. Over the next decade, every Sioux tribal council in the west asked UND to drop the nickname, but the new administration's position was that the tribes had no say and that dropping the nickname was entirely UND's decision. So UND put together a committee and put the decision in their hands. The committee recommended that UND drop the nickname so Kupchella went to the SBoHE to tell them but somebody told Ralph and Ralph browbeat the SBoHE into cutting Kupchella off and telling him that the decision was no longer UND's; instead it was the SBoHE's. The SBoHE said that "We say the nickname should stay." At NO POINT during any of this was putting the decision into the tribes' hands even considered. That only happened AFTER the NCAA stepped in. So, actually, the NCAA got nickname supporters to agree that the tribes had a say. To me, that's a good thing, and it would NEVER have happened without the NCAA stepping in.

Of course, the settlement didn't specify what would constitute tribal approval. The nickname people knew they'd never get approval from the tribal councils so they went with the popular vote. At Spirit Lake, "only" 35% wanted the nickname gone. At Standing Rock, the Tribal Council just repeated that their position hadn't changed.

BTW, a simple majority vote without and terms of agreement spelled out is not a permanent solution. That should be clear to anybody with adequate blood flow to their brain. Maybe a simple majority could instruct the tribal councils to negotiate a settlement but in no way is it a permanent solution.

FACT: UND could have solved this by spending the first 35 years negotiating a settlement with the tribes. However, their position was:

Dear Tribes,

LOL! STFU!

Smell ya later,

UND

Now these guys want to renege on the settlement with the NCAA?

But does Skarphol really want the State of North Dakota to renege on a settlement? Or is he using this as part of his ongoing campaign to get rid of the SBoHE and have Higher Ed put in direct control of a committee that he just happens to run?

Don't kid yourselves: This is politics at its very worst.