Bill to keep Sioux nickname

[bisonbuddy]

I wonder what the answer would be to "You can keep the logo or we kill your first born"?

[El_Chapo]

True Story I'm golfing near a Reservation yesterday with 2 enrolled members, some guy literally pulled up with a golf cart with Sioux indian logo's on the side and 1 of the enrolled members looks at this guy and says " you look more like a white guy than a Sioux" the guy says "im a die hard und hockey fan, ill wear this logo til I die" and the enrolled member says "Ignorance is Bliss & the spirits will remember"

Its absolutely amazing how kfgo (gaptooth) wday morning guys (troy stein und quarterback) have absolutely ZERO idea just how racist it is to portray a native American just for a hockey team.

[Tatanka]

And the logo only gets its "power" from the hockey crowd. If you changed the question and asked "would you rather keep the logo..........or have a D1 hockey program", I'm pretty confident the precious nickname and logo would actually go down to defeat for maybe the first time ever (although they would never accept the premise in the first place).

So, it's all about men's hockey and it always has been. And it was Ralph Engelstad that forever tied those to two things together when he offered the arena to them and openly (and defiantly) stated that the "Fighting Sioux" name was a requirement of its construction and use. When UND administration caved in to that demand, it was the genesis for this kind of implosion.................and a new nickname is NOT going to solve the problem.

The only thing these hockey fanatics will accept now is "no official nickname", which, on a defacto basis, allows them to continue using "Fighting Sioux" in an unofficial and personal way, on into perpetuity.

They've got big, big internal problems up there, whether they pick a new nickname, or not.

Bingo.

All fruit of that poisonous tree... the gift that keeps on giving.

The day NDSU sells their soul in this fashion is the day I stop contributing to the cause. I hope it never happens.

[The_Sicatoka]

I wonder what the answer would be to "You can keep the logo or we kill your first born"?

You know the answer to that: Passover 2.0

[The_Sicatoka]

I just don't understand some folks. They're afraid of Ralph Engelstad. The man's been gone for over a decade.

More importantly, Ralph (love him or hate him for all the exploits good or bad in his life) was a good business man. He made a lot of money in construction, on real estate, and from his casinos.

Knowing that, riddle me this:

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph have:

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or
(b) renamed them, promoted them, and kept making money off of them.

[1998braves64]

And the logo only gets its "power" from the hockey crowd. If you changed the question and asked "would you rather keep the logo..........or have a D1 hockey program", I'm pretty confident the precious nickname and logo would actually go down to defeat for maybe the first time ever (although they would never accept the premise in the first place).

So, it's all about men's hockey and it always has been. And it was Ralph Engelstad that forever tied those to two things together when he offered the arena to them and openly (and defiantly) stated that the "Fighting Sioux" name was a requirement of its construction and use. When UND administration caved in to that demand, it was the genesis for this kind of implosion.................and a new nickname is NOT going to solve the problem.

The only thing these hockey fanatics will accept now is "no official nickname", which, on a defacto basis, allows them to continue using "Fighting Sioux" in an unofficial and personal way, on into perpetuity.

They've got big, big internal problems up there, whether they pick a new nickname, or not.

That would be like trying to divide by 0. You may actually cause their brains to cross wires and explode if posed with that question/request.

[Vet70]

I just don't understand some folks. They're afraid of Ralph Engelstad. The man's been gone for over a decade.

More importantly, Ralph (love him or hate him for all the exploits good or bad in his life) was a good business man. He made a lot of money in construction, on real estate, and from his casinos.

Knowing that, riddle me this:

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph have:

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or
(b) renamed them, promoted them, and kept making money off of them.

(c) put logos everywhere in defiance and threaten everyone within an inch of their life if he didn't get his way---Imperial Palace forever.

[The_Sicatoka]

(c) put logos everywhere in defiance and threaten everyone within an inch of their life if he didn't get his way---Imperial Palace forever.

Oh yeah, he did that when he was on the strong side of the fulcrum. I'm saying what would've he done if he was on the weak side of it (like UND is now).

[Bison Loaf]

I just don't understand some folks. They're afraid of Ralph Engelstad. The man's been gone for over a decade.

More importantly, Ralph (love him or hate him for all the exploits good or bad in his life) was a good business man. He made a lot of money in construction, on real estate, and from his casinos.

Knowing that, riddle me this:

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph have:

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or
(b) renamed them, promoted them, and kept making money off of them.

As usual, you're missing the point.

It's not that "Ralph" can take the arena away at this point. It's that he led the fight in the first place.

As you well know, when the arena was originally offered, the Fighting Sioux nickname was already under assault and the PC crowd was ready to cave. Ralph then made a hockey arena "Taj Mahal" offer that he hoped "was too good to refuse" and specifically tied that offer to the "Fighting Sioux" name. Kuppy denied that they were ever tied together, but Ralph came out and publicly confirmed that it indeed was.

So, did UND quickly disavow the agreement? Not on your life. And by not doing so, it simply confirmed and reinforced the notion that "UND", the school, was completely and utterly synonymous with "Fighting Sioux" hockey, and vice versa. Everything else that the school thinks it may or may not be, became at that time, the unofficially emasculated lap dogs to "Fighting Sioux" hockey. Football, Basketball, Aviation, Law......you name it.

Thus, the name - Fighting Sioux - has no "power" now, but for that given to it by the hockey crowd. The problem with that, however, is the reverse OF it. Because the nickname "power" resides within the hockey crowd only, they must now "bless" a new name in order for it to have any legitimacy or gain any traction. And that, I believe, will NEVER happen.........thanks to Ralph's original plan.

Don't kid yourself. Ralph got exactly what he wanted...............a UND that would forever be associated with "Fighting Sioux" hockey. Period.

[BisonTeacher]

I just don't understand some folks. They're afraid of Ralph Engelstad. The man's been gone for over a decade.

More importantly, Ralph (love him or hate him for all the exploits good or bad in his life) was a good business man. He made a lot of money in construction, on real estate, and from his casinos.

Knowing that, riddle me this:

If the State of Nevada had banned public displays of the words "Imperial Palace" on signs, would Ralph have:

(a) taken down the signs from his casino, pouted, and and said I'm not going to rename my hotel/casino because that'll show them! < shakes fist at sky >, or
(b) renamed them, promoted them, and kept making money off of them.

You forgot
(c). Got a visit from one of Michael Corleone's associates while getting a backrub.