Bill to keep Sioux nickname

[Hammersmith]

Even as little as 10 years ago it might have worked as part of a two step process:

1. Drop the word Fighting.
2. Engage the tribes.

I think they would be in a way different boat right now if they had just done those two things. They could have employed this strategy as soon as they released the life rafts this time around and they might of had a chance. Time is not a friend of hubris. It doesn't care. Eventually everything comes back around.

I don't think so. I view the timeline in regards to power. Initially, the universities with NA mascots had all the power and could do what they wanted. That lasted until about 2000. From 2000-2005, it became clear to anyone watching that the balance of power was shifting. With the NCAA NA mascot policy started in 2005, the power shifted over to the tribes.

The only way(IMO) the tribes work with UND is if UND had come to them while still solidly in a position of power. That would have been pre-2000. And I don't think coming to them in 1999 would have worked either. There needed to be time to develop a solid relationship before the power shifted. I figure 10 years. So I'd put the deadline around 1990; 25 years ago.


It's not all that different than the NDSU/UND football game debate. For a short period of time, UND held all the power in deciding if the game was to continue. When UND refused to play the game, it created hard feelings. When the power shifted to NDSU, and UND now wanted the game, NDSU dug its feet in and refused. One of the main differences between this analogy and the NA situation is that there was no final time limit to restart the NDSU/UND game, but UND faced a short window of time with the nickname.

I believe if UND had gone to the tribes while the power was shifting(2000-5) or just after(2006-on), the tribes would have told them to pound sand just like NDSU would do a few years later. The tribes would have said something like, "you ignore us for over 50 years and only come to us when you need something? F-you." The following is a grammatically weird statement, but UND needed to go to the tribes before they needed to.



And I'm writing just for the sake of writing because the kids are silent reading for 40min, I've already read the book a couple times, and I already have the lesson prepared for the end of the period. Nothing to do but this, Candy Crush and sudoku.

[Bison Loaf]

I don't think so. I view the timeline in regards to power. Initially, the universities with NA mascots had all the power and could do what they wanted. That lasted until about 2000. From 2000-2005, it became clear to anyone watching that the balance of power was shifting. With the NCAA NA mascot policy started in 2005, the power shifted over to the tribes.

The only way(IMO) the tribes work with UND is if UND had come to them while still solidly in a position of power. That would have been pre-2000. And I don't think coming to them in 1999 would have worked either. There needed to be time to develop a solid relationship before the power shifted. I figure 10 years. So I'd put the deadline around 1990; 25 years ago.


It's not all that different than the NDSU/UND football game debate. For a short period of time, UND held all the power in deciding if the game was to continue. When UND refused to play the game, it created hard feelings. When the power shifted to NDSU, and UND now wanted the game, NDSU dug its feet in and refused. One of the main differences between this analogy and the NA situation is that there was no final time limit to restart the NDSU/UND game, but UND faced a short window of time with the nickname.

I believe if UND had gone to the tribes while the power was shifting(2000-5) or just after(2006-on), the tribes would have told them to pound sand just like NDSU would do a few years later. The tribes would have said something like, "you ignore us for over 50 years and only come to us when you need something? F-you." The following is a grammatically weird statement, but UND needed to go to the tribes before they needed to.



And I'm writing just for the sake of writing because the kids are silent reading for 40min, I've already read the book a couple times, and I already have the lesson prepared for the end of the period. Nothing to do but this, Candy Crush and sudoku.

I agree with you on the time frame. Ralph's offer of the arena (linked to the nickname) was formally announced in Feb. of 2002. Allowing for some discussion, plotting and formalizing - we are talking somewhere in the 2000-2002 time frame that Ralph made his strategic move. This was no coincidence, IMO. He knew how the chips were falling. UND would have needed to foster relationships with the tribes WELL before 2000 in order to make this thing work and 1990, at the latest, sounds logical to me.

[Tatanka]

I don't think so. I view the timeline in regards to power. Initially, the universities with NA mascots had all the power and could do what they wanted. That lasted until about 2000. From 2000-2005, it became clear to anyone watching that the balance of power was shifting. With the NCAA NA mascot policy started in 2005, the power shifted over to the tribes.

The only way(IMO) the tribes work with UND is if UND had come to them while still solidly in a position of power. That would have been pre-2000. And I don't think coming to them in 1999 would have worked either. There needed to be time to develop a solid relationship before the power shifted. I figure 10 years. So I'd put the deadline around 1990; 25 years ago.


It's not all that different than the NDSU/UND football game debate. For a short period of time, UND held all the power in deciding if the game was to continue. When UND refused to play the game, it created hard feelings. When the power shifted to NDSU, and UND now wanted the game, NDSU dug its feet in and refused. One of the main differences between this analogy and the NA situation is that there was no final time limit to restart the NDSU/UND game, but UND faced a short window of time with the nickname.

I believe if UND had gone to the tribes while the power was shifting(2000-5) or just after(2006-on), the tribes would have told them to pound sand just like NDSU would do a few years later. The tribes would have said something like, "you ignore us for over 50 years and only come to us when you need something? F-you." The following is a grammatically weird statement, but UND needed to go to the tribes before they needed to.



And I'm writing just for the sake of writing because the kids are silent reading for 40min, I've already read the book a couple times, and I already have the lesson prepared for the end of the period. Nothing to do but this, Candy Crush and sudoku.

Arrogance and stupidity, vigorously shaken, make a deadly cocktail.

[Putz]

I'm starting to feel offended as a North Dakotan by this whole debacle. Can someone introduce a bill to drop 'North Dakota' from UND?

[Tatanka]

I'm starting to feel offended as a North Dakotan by this whole debacle. Can someone introduce a bill to drop 'North Dakota' from UND?

Initiated measure? I'll bet you can get the requisite number of signatures.

[Putz]

Initiated measure? I'll bet you can get the requisite number of signatures.

We will need a committee to organize a committee to come up with new names. Can I get some volunteers?

[Mayville Bison]

Initiated measure? I'll bet you can get the requisite number of signatures.

I'm sure there's plenty of football players to help now that spring ball is over.

Oh, ummm, where's the Rev? I need to turn from my evil ways and someday finish that tattoo.

[SDbison]

I don't think so. I view the timeline in regards to power. Initially, the universities with NA mascots had all the power and could do what they wanted. That lasted until about 2000. From 2000-2005, it became clear to anyone watching that the balance of power was shifting. With the NCAA NA mascot policy started in 2005, the power shifted over to the tribes.

The only way(IMO) the tribes work with UND is if UND had come to them while still solidly in a position of power. That would have been pre-2000. And I don't think coming to them in 1999 would have worked either. There needed to be time to develop a solid relationship before the power shifted. I figure 10 years. So I'd put the deadline around 1990; 25 years ago.


It's not all that different than the NDSU/UND football game debate. For a short period of time, UND held all the power in deciding if the game was to continue. When UND refused to play the game, it created hard feelings. When the power shifted to NDSU, and UND now wanted the game, NDSU dug its feet in and refused. One of the main differences between this analogy and the NA situation is that there was no final time limit to restart the NDSU/UND game, but UND faced a short window of time with the nickname.

I believe if UND had gone to the tribes while the power was shifting(2000-5) or just after(2006-on), the tribes would have told them to pound sand just like NDSU would do a few years later. The tribes would have said something like, "you ignore us for over 50 years and only come to us when you need something? F-you." The following is a grammatically weird statement, but UND needed to go to the tribes before they needed to.



And I'm writing just for the sake of writing because the kids are silent reading for 40min, I've already read the book a couple times, and I already have the lesson prepared for the end of the period. Nothing to do but this, Candy Crush and sudoku.

Hey, now that the tribes have this hostile and abusive nickname out of the way they can focus on their real problems with poverty, crime, education, family abuse, alcohol and drugs.

[bisonaudit]

Hey, now that the tribes have this hostile and abusive nickname out of the way they can focus on their real problems with poverty, crime, education, family abuse, alcohol and drugs.

I'm not sure that 'they' put the hostile and abusive nickname issue in the way in the first place.

I'm not sure that 'their real problems' are entirely unrelated to the hostile and abusive nickname issue.

I'm really not sure that 'their' problems are exclusively theirs.

I'm pretty sure that people interested in affecting these problems 'real' or otherwise are capable of focusing on more than one thing at the same time.

[NDSUstudent]

Here is what has made the 2nd cut so far....Numbers of votes each got to the right...

Aeronauts, 1
Aeros, 1
Arctic Blaze, 2
Arctic Force, 1
Aurora, 2
Aviators, 1
Badlanders, 1
Big Green, 4
Bison Slayers, 1
Blackhawks, 3
Blaze, 1
Blazing Stars, 1
Blizzard, 1
Blizzard Dogs, 1
Bombardiers, 1
Bombers, 1
Cavalry, 2
Charging Nokota, 1
Drillers, 1
Energy, 1
Explorers, 1
Fighting Green, 3
Fighting Green Hawks, 2
Fighting Hawks, 2
Fire, 2
Flame, 1
Flames, 4
Flickertails, 3
Fliers, 2
Force, 6
Force of North, 2
Global Hawks, 1
Green Bombers, 1
Green Hawks, 2
Green Pride 1
Grey Hawks, 1