Dome Upgrades

[Wolfie]

Other than covid times, the Fargodome has been in the black every. single. year. since they opened. That's basically unheard of for venues. Maybe 99% of the others are doing it otherwise, but maybe we hit the golden formula. A lot of venues are heavily politicized. State funding for the Carrier Dome for Syracuse was basically a bribe by incumbent NY politicians to get votes. No way the school could have afforded it themselves. Hawaii's Aloha stadium was recently condemned for lack of maintenance and their FB team is playing on their women's soccer field.
Venue concession economics aren't simple. Yeah, they look overpriced but you have to remember they're exceedingly low volume, and therefore need high margin. They might have high sales per hour, but only operate a few hours a week.

I'd rather not have to rely on the Fargodome in order to get upgrades, and wait a decade just to decide to allow beer sales.
NDSU might lose money overall, but they would make alot more revenue and the cash flow that comes with it. Cash flow pays alot of bills. Just ask Amazon.

[taper]

I'd rather not have to rely on the Fargodome in order to get upgrades, and wait a decade just to decide to allow beer sales.
NDSU might lose money overall, but they would make alot more revenue and the cash flow that comes with it. Cash flow pays alot of bills. Just ask Amazon.

Are you sure you understand economics? Losing money overall is rarely a good thing. Revenue doesn't always mean profit. Amazon's a terrible example. They could have booked a massive profit anytime they wanted but instead chose to reinvest their earnings into growth. Take a look at NDSU's deferred maintenance list from lack of state funding and tell me the university would be any better at facility upgrades.

[Wolfie]

Are you sure you understand economics? Losing money overall is rarely a good thing. Revenue doesn't always mean profit. Amazon's a terrible example. They could have booked a massive profit anytime they wanted but instead chose to reinvest their earnings into growth. Take a look at NDSU's deferred maintenance list from lack of state funding and tell me the university would be any better at facility upgrades.

Yes, I understand economics quite well and never said revenue equals profit.

Cash flow is better than profit in many situations.
I'm not going to go over how and why, but most small to mid size biz don't actually profit, but yet they are around and the owners are living pretty good and the employees are getting paid.
Of course profit is the goal, but it's not necessary by any means.

Amazon makes almost all their profit from their cloud computing biz. I doubt they'd ever profit from their e com model alone or at least very rarely, regardless of if they re-invested into it or not. They definitely get a large tax break by doing so though and ensure they will crush any competition. Doesn't mean they wouldn't still be a massive corporation. Their e com model produces cash flow...not profit (or very little of it compared to revenue) . And they could run forever on that model as long as a competitor didn't come along and take their business away.

[HerdBot]

I'm guessing NDSU would make alot more money. Which is why every team ever has their own stadium if they can help it.
Not only would they get the concession money, they would also get parking fees, tailgating fees, and the BIG ONE....100% of the SPONSOR FEES for naming rights, marketing during games, etc...Naming rights is massive, which is why every stadium in existence has a super dumb ass corporate name.

Also, you can control everything and not rely on other people or have to talk with them for 2 years to get anything done.
Not to mention, if NDSU had their own stadium, it would probably be a dome, so they can hold concerts, conferences, etc during the off season....money and such.

Owning the stadium is way better than renting one. Which is why 99.9% of colleges have their own stadium. If it's not better, then everyone else is doing it wrong I guess.

You have it backwards
Almost every NFL team (all but 6) plays in a city or state owned stadium.

90% of stadiums lose money. Thats why NFL owners don't build their own stadium.

The Fargodome is a rare exception to the rule since it makes an operating profit. But without NDSU, it would probably lose money or break even, with very little money for upgrades

All these upgrades are paid for by the dome. Example the video boards were almost 10 million bucks 7 years ago. We would have to fund that out of pocket. Thats 20% of the entire cost for the IPF. 2 sets of turf. HD lights. A parking lot. Not to mention a new roof someday

Now outdoor stadiums are much cheaper to operate (no heating or cooling) but there arent enough games or events. Of the 6 owned, 3 are in warm weather clinates.

Even a team like SDSU has to deduct the bond payment out of their athletic budget and the facility operates at a loss

[56BISON73]

Sobolik said his preliminary and unofficial numbers show the dome sold 4,100 units of alcohol. At $8 each, that would be $32,800 in revenue. That was about one quarter of the dome's overall sales Saturday, Sobolik said.

How much does NDSU get? Or are the concessions all Dome money?

[Wolfie]

You have it backwards
Almost every NFL team (all but 6) plays in a city or state owned stadium.

90% of stadiums lose money. Thats why NFL owners don't build their own stadium.

The Fargodome is a rare exception to the rule since it makes an operating profit. But without NDSU, it would probably lose money or break even, with very little money for upgrades

All these upgrades are paid for by the dome. Example the video boards were almost 10 million bucks 7 years ago. We would have to fund that out of pocket. Thats 20% of the entire cost for the IPF. 2 sets of turf. HD lights. A parking lot. Not to mention a new roof someday

Now outdoor stadiums are much cheaper to operate (not heating or cooling) but there arent enough games or events. Of the 6 owned, 3 are in warm weather clinates.

Even a team like SDSU has to deduct the bond payment out of their athletic budget and the facility operates at a loss

Yep. I never once said they would profit. Just said they'd make more money, IE revenue/cash flow, which can be a really good thing.
Also, they can do what they want without having another entity making the decisions.

99.9% of college teams have their own stadium. Doesn't see to bankrupt any of them. I would assume they would all say that they'd rather have their own then rent one.

[HerdBot]

Yep. I never once said they would profit. Just said they'd make more money, IE revenue/cash flow, which can be a really good thing.
Also, they can do what they want without having another entity making the decisions.

99.9% of college teams have their own stadium. Doesn't see to bankrupt any of them. I would assume they would all say that they'd rather have their own then rent one.

But if you have an operating loss, you don't make more money. The more profits from beer and advertising go to cover the loss, which comes out of your athletic budget

Most college teams would kill to have what we had. If most college teams could move into a city owned NFL quality stadium they didn't have to share, they would do it in a heartbeat. The exception might be some Big Ten teams with an unlimited budget from TV money

[HerdBot]

How much does NDSU get? Or are the concessions all Dome money?

Its like 15-20%. It drops once they hit a certain dollar amount. Its not a huge amount of money in the grand scheme of things but it's still enough to make it worth while. Its probably worth 40-50 grand to the athletics department if we play 9 games. Thats like 4-5 full rides

[bisonaudit]

Yes, I understand economics quite well and never said revenue equals profit.

Cash flow is better than profit in many situations.
I'm not going to go over how and why, but most small to mid size biz don't actually profit, but yet they are around and the owners are living pretty good and the employees are getting paid.
Of course profit is the goal, but it's not necessary by any means.

Amazon makes almost all their profit from their cloud computing biz. I doubt they'd ever profit from their e com model alone or at least very rarely, regardless of if they re-invested into it or not. They definitely get a large tax break by doing so though and ensure they will crush any competition. Doesn't mean they wouldn't still be a massive corporation. Their e com model produces cash flow...not profit (or very little of it compared to revenue) . And they could run forever on that model as long as a competitor didn't come along and take their business away.

This while profit v. Cash flow thing is technically true but mostly an illusion. There can be timing differences between when cash is received or spent and when revenue or expenses are recorded. If you’re just the right combination of stupid and smart you can play that game for awhile but sooner or later you pay the piper.

[Wolfie]

This while profit v. Cash flow thing is technically true but mostly an illusion. There can be timing differences between when cash is received or spent and when revenue or expenses are recorded. If you’re just the right combination of stupid and smart you can play that game for awhile but sooner or later you pay the piper.

That is true if you lose massively. If you break even or have a slight loss, it's fine.
And in the case of NDSU it wouldn't be that. you get your money instantly...it's not like Katy Perry plays the fargodome and they don't get the ticket sales revenue for 40 days....or people buy beer, and the company they use for point of sale doesn't pay them for a month. Or someone buys a ticket to a game but doesn't have to pay you for a month....It's instant.

But yes, if you are a company that bills the customers and have a net 30 payment, then you can absolutely get crushed. Especially when they don't pay on time or at all. That wouldn't be how it works with NDSU owning their own stadium.
Again, 99.9% of colleges own their stadium. I'm not sure why people are acting like I'm nuts for suggesting it would be better to own ours and we'd get more revenue stream...baffling to say the least.
As much as people bitch about the Fargodome being slow to do upgrades and what not, it's kinda weird...but this is Bisonville.