Dakota Domination

[Hammersmith]

On the SDSU message board, one of their posters keeps track of the Commissioner's Cup and the men's and women's -only companion cups. I wanted to see how the indoor track championships affected the standings, so I did the math and updated the MBB & WBB totals. It got me thinking about the overall impact NDSU and SDSU have had on the Summit.

We(NDSU's fanbase) took some heat when we were being considered for Mid-Con membership because some of us claimed we would walk in and dominate. Well, it looks like we have. This year, we have claimed a share of, or taken outright, seven regular season championships between us. That's out of eleven possible. And only one of those, SDSU's women's soccer title, was shared. Out of the remaining eight championships, NDSU will probably take three(MOT&F, WOT&F, SB). In total, it's likely that ten out of the nineteen Summit championships will come to the Dakotas, and that's not counting a fairly strong SDSU golf program.

2008-09 Summit Championships
NDSU: 4 (VB, MBB, MIT&F, WIT&F)
Oak: 4(MS, WS*, MS&D, WS&D)
SDSU: 3(WS*, WCC, WBB)
IUPUI: 1(WS*)
SUU: 1(MCC)

*shared - SDSU won the conference tourney


Here are the current standings for the Commissioner's Cup:

1.   Oakland              64.0
2.   South Dakota State   60.0
3.   North Dakota State   59.0
4.   Oral Roberts         46.0
5.   Western Illinois     43.5
6.   IUPUI                43.0
7.   Southern Utah        41.0
8.   IPFW                 34.0
9.   UMKC                 21.0
10.  Centenary            16.5

(might change a little after Monday's WBB games)

We are tied with ORU for second place for the men's cup behind Oakland, and in sole possession of second place for the women's cup behind SDSU. If you average the number of points divided by the number of sports, we have a strong lead over everyone with SDSU sitting in second.

[ndsoccerfan]

Thanks Hammer I appreciate the work. I will say that I don't think it makes sense to divide the number of points by the number of sports offered because the conference accounts for this by adjusting the total points possible. My example is that seven schools have men's soccer and the champion in men's soccer receives 7 points for winning the league compared to 10 for men's BB.

To have # of points divided by # of sports be fair you would have to adjust the points award so 1st place gets- 10 points, 2nd- 9, ect. Then it may be a little more relevant.

[Kermit]

I will say that I don't think it makes sense to..be fair you would have to adjust the points..

Fair and logical are over-rated. Hammer is simply doing what good statisticians and politicians everywhere do. He's putting the Bison case in the best possible light.

[Hammersmith]

Fair and logical are over-rated. Hammer is simply doing what good statisticians and politicians everywhere do. He's putting the Bison case in the best possible light.

Oh crap, you caught me out. Actually, I thought about trying to correct for the different levels of points, but it was late, I was lazy, and I said screw it.

I actually think it's somewhat fair to do it my way. NDSU and SDSU get bonuses for placing highly in the sports where (nearly)every school competes in. I think that's right. The competition in those sports is the greatest, so a bonus should apply.

In the end, it doesn't really matter. It's just fun with numbers.

[NorCalJack]

Fair and logical are over-rated. Hammer is simply doing what good statisticians and politicians everywhere do. He's putting the Bison case in the best possible light.

If two universities have the same athletic budget and one participates in 14 events and the other has 19, shouldn't the university with 14 teams be able to field better teams than the university with 19 teams?

Here is a list of the Summit League universities and how many teams each field in the conference.

Western Illinois 19
Oakland 18
SDSU 18
Oral Roberts 16
IPFW 15
Centenary 15
UMKC 15
IUPUI 14
NDSU 14
Southern Utah 14

I'm just saying.

[cvbison1]

jack fans are always grabbing. when will they learn that SDSU always has been and always will be less than a sister to NDSU

[Bison Dan]

jack fans are always grabbing. when will they learn that SDSU always has been and always will be less than a sister to NDSU

You can count on 2 more championships in Track, maybe Softball. As far as the number of programs, I like where we're at. The additional programs that some schools have are non-revenue sports and if you can't be competitive nationally with them they just waste resources.

[Hammersmith]

I like the philosophy of a smaller number of sports, but supporting them at a higher level; the quality versus quantity debate. With a limited budget, I'd rather see a smaller number of student-athletes have a better experience than a larger number of student-athletes having a worse. It's also why I don't want NDSU to add any sport(including hockey or FBS football) until baseball and golf have been brought to the same level as the rest of Bison athletics.

[ndsoccerfan]

I just think that the current scoring format already adjusts itself for the discrepency in the number of sports. It does that by adjusting the number of points awarded in the sports that not every conference member participates.

I'm sure one could argue that the champion for each sport should get 10 points regardless of the # of institutions that sponsor that sport. I'm sure there are member institutions that feel if the Summit League sponsors a sport that it should award points as 10-1st 9-2nd 8-3rd ect.

[zooropa]

until baseball and golf have been brought to the same level as the rest of Bison athletics.

Given the weather around here, that's going to be an expensive undertaking.

For SDSU, swim/dive and track sports are there to meet the SD BoR's strict Title IX requirements (equal scholarships/equal participation). There are about twice as many women in swim/dive as there are men, and I believe there's a sizable discrepancy between men & women in the track and field sports as well.

Regarding the 'little sister' remark, well, we'll take our second consecutive Helen Smiley trophy, our win in the soccer tourney, our nationally ranked golfers, and our back to back championships in WBB and cry ourselves to sleep..... We'll take our big fat pile of academic awards too.................. And our back-to-back finishes ahead of you in football.

Track is the one area where I wish SDSU would get off its butt. Track and cross country are big at the high school level in the upper midwest, but SDSU has basically let USD & NDSU glom onto the best athletes in track for too long.

BTW: USD will give you guys a run for the money when they get into the Summit. There are only two better indoor track facilities in the region. Nebraska's and Iowa State's. Unfortunately the 'Yote's exceptional indoor track makes for downright lousy basketball & football venues.