Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I'm wondering if he had some team rule thing about being places they shouldn't be and that's why they all got suspended.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BisonTeacher
I'm wondering if he had some team rule thing about being places they shouldn't be and that's why they all got suspended.
I thought I read yesterday that Claeys took responsibility for suspending them, though that may have been the school saying that and not him. If that were the case, then I'd think that was a possibility. But today he tweeted out his support for the boycott.
I doubt there is a "no gangbang" clause in their code of conduct and even if there was is that grounds for expulsion? The only thing I can figure is the school thinks it wasn't consensual. I realize they don't need to meet legal standards but I think they should be required to at least come close in something that has such serious consequences of a student's life. Especially after the legal part has concluded with the accuser stating she was satisfied with the result.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bisonp
I thought I read yesterday that Claeys took responsibility for suspending them, though that may have been the school saying that and not him. If that were the case, then I'd think that was a possibility. But today he tweeted out his support for the boycott.
I doubt there is a "no gangbang" clause in their code of conduct and even if there was is that grounds for expulsion? The only thing I can figure is the school thinks it wasn't consensual. I realize they don't need to meet legal standards but I think they should be required to at least come close in something that has such serious consequences of a student's life. Especially after the legal part has concluded with the accuser stating she was satisfied with the result.
It goes back to attending the University is a privilege and not a right. The University also has a duty to their students to provide a safe environment for their students. The University also has an affirmative consent rule regarding intercourse. Also as you already mentioned the legal aspect is based on beyond a reasonable doubt compared to the University which is based on a preponderance of evidence. Its the same basis as when OJ was not guilty of murder but was found liable in the civil case brought by the Goldman's.
I haven't seen where she said she was satisfied with charges being dropped. I do think she said she was ok with the settlement reached with the restraining orders. But I could be wrong.
Disclaimer - I have no dog in this fight. I'm only pointing out that you can't compare legal decisions to University actions.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PattyBison
It goes back to attending the University is a privilege and not a right. The University also has a duty to their students to provide a safe environment for their students. The University also has an affirmative consent rule regarding intercourse. Also as you already mentioned the legal aspect is based on beyond a reasonable doubt compared to the University which is based on a preponderance of evidence. Its the same basis as when OJ was not guilty of murder but was found liable in the civil case brought by the Goldman's.
I haven't seen where she said she was satisfied with charges being dropped. I do think she said she was ok with the settlement reached with the restraining orders. But I could be wrong.
Disclaimer - I have no dog in this fight. I'm only pointing out that you can't compare legal decisions to University actions.
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BisonAccountant44
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no
due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
Preponderance is the standard used in civil cases and is one step below beyond a reasonable doubt.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
And the same standard for Title IX.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BisonAccountant44
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
Due process for what? They will have hearings prior to University actions. In the meantime, they are suspended from football activities. Tough call. The U wouldn't look good if they kicked out 5 players and suspended 4 for a year and still allowed them to play in a bowl game.
I have no clue what the right decision is. It's just an ugly mess.
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I am not advocating sexual assault!
However, according the video that was shown to the police, she was lucid and a willing participant.
My guess is she pulled the train and had some regrets after the fact and claimed SA. Obviously, the police and prosecutor agreed and decided not to press charges.
Unless they are at BYU and sign a code of conduct that says they can't drink or have sex, I don't believe they should be suspended. I also support the team's decision, because this decision by administration seems railroaded (pun intended).
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aces1180
I am not advocating sexual assault!
However, according the video that was shown to the police, she was lucid and a willing participant.
My guess is she pulled the train and had some regrets after the fact and claimed SA. Obviously, the police and prosecutor agreed and decided not to press charges.
Unless they are at BYU and sign a code of conduct that says they can't drink or have sex, I don't believe they should be suspended. I also support the team's decision, because this decision by administration seems railroaded (pun intended).
Wasn't it 90 seconds of video and the encounter lasted an hour and a half?
Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
At least gopher fans don't have to watch mitch leidner anymore
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