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Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
NDSU should romp. The Sycamores just suffered a heartbreaking Homecoming loss to USD - a game in which their defense only gave up one TD. Statistically, their pass defense is good, but that could be skewed by their run defense being so bad.
But it was ISU-Blue who came into Fargo in 2012 and beat NDSU to spoil a perfect season. NDSU had started with 5 wins, including a stomping of Colorado State. The week before, NDSU had beaten #3 Youngstown State 48-7.
And the last time NDSU played ISU-Blue in 2022, the Sycamores were weill on their way to a 2-9 season. In that game, NDSU was trailing in the 3rd quarter and ended up winning by 5 pts.
Also this still bugs me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGi573cXzr4
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tony
NDSU
should romp. The Sycamores just suffered a heartbreaking Homecoming loss to USD - a game in which their defense only gave up one TD. Statistically, their pass defense is good, but that could be skewed by their run defense being so bad.
But it was ISU-Blue who came into Fargo in 2012 and beat NDSU to spoil a perfect season. NDSU had started with 5 wins, including a stomping of Colorado State. The week before, NDSU had beaten #3 Youngstown State 48-7.
And the last time NDSU played ISU-Blue in 2022, the Sycamores were weill on their way to a 2-9 season. In that game, NDSU was trailing in the 3rd quarter and ended up winning by 5 pts.
Also this still bugs me:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGi573cXzr4
I remember this game well…
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heffray
I remember this game well…
I wonder if ISU-B will get to call penalties from the sidelines in this game too.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tony
I wonder if ISU-B will get to call penalties from the sidelines in this game too.
Oh I’m sure Indy has a breakdown of each call somewhere that is dEfEnSiBlE…
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heffray
Oh I’m sure Indy has a breakdown of each call somewhere that is dEfEnSiBlE…
We just "don't see everything like the referees do".
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heffray
Oh I’m sure Indy has a breakdown of each call somewhere that is dEfEnSiBlE…
I don't think he does on this one. BTW, for those who don't remember, the penalty was called the OT and OG on the left side of our line.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tony
I don't think he does on this one. BTW, for those who don't remember, the penalty was called the OT and OG on the left side of our line.
what was the penalty? A chop block ? where one player engages high (above the waist) and the other engaging low (below the waist) at the same time against the same defender.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
southcliffbison
what was the penalty? A chop block ? where one player engages high (above the waist) and the other engaging low (below the waist) at the same time against the same defender.
Yeah, chop block. Our LT and LG got called for it.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tony
Yeah, chop block. Our LT and LG got called for it.
I have no recollection of this call so I'm not much help. Chop blocks usually aren't very subjective. Most of the time, they are the result of miscommunication. When I have one, one lineman usually looks at the other and says something like "you weren't supposed to cut him, that was my guy." I've never had a situation where the offense intentionally chop blocked a defender to hurt them.
The exception to that was when the high school rule required the second block to be delayed. At the time, you could legally high low someone simultaneously! I had a game where 3 players from one team left with major injuries because they were high-lowed legally. I submitted a rule change request to our state commissioner that night. I have no idea if my request was the one that was submitted to the NFHS. The change was implemented the next year.
The NFL rule is even more liberal. If one blocker fronts a guy as if he's going to block him high and someone else cuts him, they have committed a chop block.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IndyBison
I have no recollection of this call so I'm not much help…
Luckily you don’t have to try too hard, you can just watch the 10 second clip Tony posted…
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
My biggest concern about this PUD FCS game?
Is what color the 2 2025 F-150s that Terra Haute Ford puts on the 50 yard line
Rename that college Hoople U
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heffray
Luckily you don’t have to try too hard, you can just watch the 10 second clip Tony posted…
How could they see that to call that a 'Chop Block' when their heads were wedged up inside their sphincters?
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El_Chapo
My biggest concern about this PUD FCS game?
Is what color the 2 2025 F-150s that Terra Haute Ford puts on the 50 yard line
Rename that college Hoople U
That’s an insult to Tater Town eh
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
How could they see that to call that a 'Chop Block' when their heads were wedged up inside their sphincters?
It wasn’t the only questionable call that day but it was certainly the best example… it was a weird game and I don’t have a good explanation for it.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
https://i.imgur.com/zIwd8ST.png
Digging up an old image that applies to this game.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
I'm guessing these kids sleep walk during the first half with what is around the corner. Would not be suprised if the Trees manage to have a lead early on. I'd be shocked if they weren't already doing some SDSU prep in the background, and maybe even a few practice things to prep. No matter what folks say publically, that kind of stuff happens.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Maybe Tim could get Brock Jensen to come give a motivational speech.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Grant could introduce him as the only guy who could score on the Bison defense.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
heffray
It wasn’t the only questionable call that day but it was certainly the best example… it was a weird game and I don’t have a good explanation for it.
Woman ref. She sucks!
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SDbison
Woman ref. She sucks!
You got that right!
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Question about the women refs.....
Are they on the field because they are the best available referees? Or are they merely tokens filling quotas? I am willing to bet that there are better qualified refs at the DII level that would love those positions but are passed by for the sake of DEI. If so, this is actually discrimination and hopefully someone pushes that issue.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs? I'm thinking most of you have daughters, wives, sisters, or mothers*. Would you say that in front of them or to them? Yeah, I'll take shots at women...but just in fun. If they are reading this post, it better be on their phone while in the kitchen.
*Herdbot might not have a mother...being a bot and all.**
**Not sure about Kevin...he just appeared one day.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs? I'm thinking most of you have daughters, wives, sisters, or mothers*. Would you say that in front of them or to them? Yeah, I'll take shots at women...but just in fun. If they are reading this post, it better be on their phone while in the kitchen.
*Herdbot might not have a mother...being a bot and all.**
**Not sure about Kevin...he just appeared one day.
No. You are not alone.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs? I'm thinking most of you have daughters, wives, sisters, or mothers*. Would you say that in front of them or to them? Yeah, I'll take shots at women...but just in fun. If they are reading this post, it better be on their phone while in the kitchen.
*Herdbot might not have a mother...being a bot and all.**
**Not sure about Kevin...he just appeared one day.
I meant no disrespect in my reply.
However, shouldn't all referees be required to climb the same ladder? Should any be promoted due to their gender rather than their performance?
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
59-6 Bison. Bison jump on em early.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
I meant no disrespect in my reply.
However, shouldn't all referees be required to climb the same ladder? Should any be promoted due to their gender rather than their performance?
Not necessarily singling your reply out...just been seeing a lot of it and it just makes me shake my head.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
I meant no disrespect in my reply.
However, shouldn't all referees be required to climb the same ladder? Should any be promoted due to their gender rather than their performance?
I would think most of the male refs have played the game at some level and that alone would help with judgement calls. No problem with female refs but if they are there strictly for quota reasons and not performance well...bigly against that.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs? I'm thinking most of you have daughters, wives, sisters, or mothers*. Would you say that in front of them or to them? Yeah, I'll take shots at women...but just in fun. If they are reading this post, it better be on their phone while in the kitchen.
*Herdbot might not have a mother...being a bot and all.**
**Not sure about Kevin...he just appeared one day.
I try to keep my wife out of the kitchen except when it comes to the dishes and cookies. She makes killer cookies.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs? I'm thinking most of you have daughters, wives, sisters, or mothers*. Would you say that in front of them or to them? Yeah, I'll take shots at women...but just in fun. If they are reading this post, it better be on their phone while in the kitchen.
*Herdbot might not have a mother...being a bot and all.**
**Not sure about Kevin...he just appeared one day.
It reminds me of an effect described by many stand-up comedians… certain jokes are made ironically, but when they do a bit in certain places on the road, they can tell that the laughs they are getting are not at the irony…
Am I comparing myself to standup comedians?
Yes. Yes I am.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TransAmBison
Am I the only one that cringes a bit at the comments about women refs?
I just roll me eyes... I mean, if the He Man Woman Haters Club doesn't want woman refs, why don't they pull on their big boy pants and become refs themselves? Is the whole "gotta be able to run 200 yards in a single day" thing holding them back? :)
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mtoutfitter
I would think most of the male refs have played the game at some level and that alone would help with judgement calls. No problem with female refs but if they are there strictly for quota reasons and not performance well...bigly against that.
They all get graded after each game. I would assume the conference downgrades any single ref or crew for poor games. Now for what happens after that, I am not sure. Is there more film work for them to do to get back onto the field? Are they not assigned anymore games or moved down to a lesser level of play? But in the end, there are not enough people willing to officiate any types of sports at high school, college or possibly even in pro sports. This has been and will continue to be an issue.
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr Meaty
They all get graded after each game. I would assume the conference downgrades any single ref or crew for poor games. Now for what happens after that, I am not sure. Is there more film work for them to do to get back onto the field? Are they not assigned anymore games or moved down to a lesser level of play? But in the end, there are not enough people willing to officiate any types of sports at high school, college or possibly even in pro sports. This has been and will continue to be an issue.
This is a correct assessment. At the MVFC level, they are graded on each play resulting in a grade for the game. The supervisors and position coaches track that throughout the season. In some cases, an official can be pulled from an assignment depending on the situation. Over the course of the season, if they have too many downgrades, they may not be retained. They won't necessarily be demoted. They will be let go and then they'll have to find a new place to work. I'm not aware of anyone who was let go who was brought back to that league. It would have to be a unique situation for them to come back. A change of supervisor for exams.
Regarding other questions about their ability relative to other officials. That's a very subjective question. There are many factors in how conferences choose to hire their staff. There is a large pool of qualified D2 officials who would love to move to FCS so there is not a shortage issue here. The MVFC, MAC, and B1G are part of a consortium for officials called the COC. You are generally hired into the COC in the MVFC and then move up from there. The conference changes recently have affected that. There could be a D2 official in a conference out west that gets hired into the MVFC or possibly a Big Sky official into the MAC or a MWC official hired into the B1G. Let's just say there are 4 spots open in the MVFC one year. There are potentially 100 qualified officials they could be considering. The gap from the top to the bottom isn't going to be huge and again that's subjective. There are many other factors that get considered. Former player (NFL or college), underrepresented (primarily black or female), personal connections (family members), age (not too old or young), fitness (no fat officials), and personal recommendations. Sometimes you are just in the right place at the right time. You were available at the last minute to help with a Tuesday morning scrimmage at Purdue, and the D2 conference supervisor (who also happens to be a MAC referee) happens to be working. You show up early, act professional, get along well with the crew, and make some solid calls and suddenly you are high on his radar.
The women you are asking about may have gotten there a little quicker than other guys. But they are still qualified. And if they struggle, they'll get additional coaching just like anyone else. If they continue to struggle, they'll be dropped. But that can happen to a number of people. A good friend of mine used to play fur the Colts. In his mid-30s after retiring he decided to get into officiating. I coached him in one of his first times ever on the field in a high school scrimmage. I helped him get onto his high school crew. The next spring, he was working D1 scrimmages, and i helped him there as well. He was a sponge and loved it! The summer before his third year, he was hired by the MVFC, and he had never worked a college varsity game. That's not right, but he had a unique background. He was assigned to a crew led by one of our local referees. He worked hard and listened well. I'm sure he had some struggles but overall did well. Unfortunately, the following year, his knees started to fail, and he had to retire. He misses it but enjoyed his quick run. He did get to work a couple games in the Fargodome.
Many of the people I work with in D3/NAIA would be fine to move on to the FCS staff. But for a variety of reasons, they aren't one of the lucky ones chosen. I've known many guys from my conference who have moved on and through the MVFC. Some are as high as the B1G and NFL now. I was too old and too heavy to really get a chance. I did get a sniff at the OVC, but nothing ever came of it. It was an honor to be considered. With all the crap going on with D1, I'm not upset about working D3 and NAIA. It's all about football and student athletes at that level. The local NAIA teams are often ranked in the top 10 nationally so the level is really good. I've worked scrimmages and practices at IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Louisville and several MAC schools. My D3 game on Sunday had 2 of the better teams in our conference with coaches who have been in the league as long as me (15+ years). Home team homecoming that had a lively tailgate scene we have to walk through from our locker room to the stadium. Home team took a 34-14 lead with 11 minutes left in the 4th quarter (they just missed an extra point due to a bad snap). Visitors then scored 21 points in the last 6 minutes to win 35-34. It was an intense and exciting football on a sunny Saturday afternoon. This week is another homecoming game at the #1 team in the conference. The school has 900 students and is on a bluff overlooking the Ohio River. One of their alumni is Woody Harrelson whose college roommate was Mike Pence. They will have a great crowd for D3 as well. I love what I do!
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
This might get ugly for the Sycamore defense....
NDSU is 6th best in the FCS scoring 44.5 points per game - Indiana St is 4th worst in the FCS allowing 41.3 points per game
NDSU is 5th best in the FCS with 501.3 yards of total offense per game - Indiana St is 6th worst in the FCS allowing 487.2 yards per game
NDSU is 6th best in the FCS with 235.3 rush yards per game - Indiana St is 7th worst in the FCS allowing 241.7 rush yards per game
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Re: Game 7: Indiana State Sycamores
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Question about the women refs.....
Are they on the field because they are the best available referees? Or are they merely tokens filling quotas? I am willing to bet that there are better qualified refs at the DII level that would love those positions but are passed by for the sake of DEI. If so, this is actually discrimination and hopefully someone pushes that issue.
DEI......without question!!!! This is a remnant of the Viverito regime. Did they move up in the ranks of officials, working high school or lower level college ball.......juco or naia......first; with 10 to 20 years of experience under their belts? Or, did they answer an advertisement in some newspaper requesting applicants for MV football crews? The ad reading: The MVFC is looking for applicants to work MVFC games (gender restrictions will apply). Applicants must have worked at least 2 years of junior football; any level above junior football is a plus. Credit will be given to those who actually played competitive football. Training available, but must have some rudimentary knowledge of football such as the length of the field, the shape of the ball, and how many points are scored for a touchdown. Equipment suchs as pants, shirts, shoes, whistles, flags, and caps are the responsibility of the applicant. Basically, swingin' dicks need not apply.
