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Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Good grief! What a train wreck. 10 players suspended, and then the entire team today threatening to boycott the Holiday Bowl if the players aren't reinstated. Of course, even if some players did want to come here, I'm not sure it would be worth the drama they would bring. At most, I'd maybe be interested in some bench players who have been unjustly caught up in the team nonsense. Someone who wants to make a clean break from the U of M and just wants to play football while pursuing a decent college education.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
It's a strange situation for sure. Supposedly one of the suspended kids wasn't even in the building where the alleged assault took place, 5 were in the apartment but not directly involved and 4 involved (at least enough to have restraining orders issued at one point), but none had any charges pressed and this whole thing was considered dead for about 3 months before this expulsion news broke.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
aside from the 10 running the train on a the girl.
NDSU would welcome any and all of the transfers!
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I picked UM to win in my Bowl Pick Em. Immediately switched to WSU.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
ndsubison1
I picked UM to win in my Bowl Pick Em. Immediately switched to WSU.
Holy hell. I had wsu as a confidence 30 and it's now a 43
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
http://www.inforum.com/node/4181068/. What a cluster f. Good luck sorting out that mess.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I'd be stripping some scholarships.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
OrygunBison
I'd be stripping some scholarships.
This. You can't cave to that crap.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
if Claeys coaches in '17 I bet it's his last year. It will be such a dumpster fire they'll want to start with someone new.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
This is being handled badly all around.
I really don't trust anything called "The Office of Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action". It appears that it was consensual, what they did is not for me but is it any worse than some other types of sex that are considered acceptable now? We don't know the whole story of course, but from what I have read the case was pretty flimsy and the video contradicted the accuser's story.
But it was bad judgement by the players involved as well, and absolutely stupid to do a boycott which has no doubt already caused deep and lasting damage to the program. I can't imagine what the boosters who have their bowl tickets are thinking right now.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I'm wondering if he had some team rule thing about being places they shouldn't be and that's why they all got suspended.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
BisonTeacher
I'm wondering if he had some team rule thing about being places they shouldn't be and that's why they all got suspended.
I thought I read yesterday that Claeys took responsibility for suspending them, though that may have been the school saying that and not him. If that were the case, then I'd think that was a possibility. But today he tweeted out his support for the boycott.
I doubt there is a "no gangbang" clause in their code of conduct and even if there was is that grounds for expulsion? The only thing I can figure is the school thinks it wasn't consensual. I realize they don't need to meet legal standards but I think they should be required to at least come close in something that has such serious consequences of a student's life. Especially after the legal part has concluded with the accuser stating she was satisfied with the result.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
bisonp
I thought I read yesterday that Claeys took responsibility for suspending them, though that may have been the school saying that and not him. If that were the case, then I'd think that was a possibility. But today he tweeted out his support for the boycott.
I doubt there is a "no gangbang" clause in their code of conduct and even if there was is that grounds for expulsion? The only thing I can figure is the school thinks it wasn't consensual. I realize they don't need to meet legal standards but I think they should be required to at least come close in something that has such serious consequences of a student's life. Especially after the legal part has concluded with the accuser stating she was satisfied with the result.
It goes back to attending the University is a privilege and not a right. The University also has a duty to their students to provide a safe environment for their students. The University also has an affirmative consent rule regarding intercourse. Also as you already mentioned the legal aspect is based on beyond a reasonable doubt compared to the University which is based on a preponderance of evidence. Its the same basis as when OJ was not guilty of murder but was found liable in the civil case brought by the Goldman's.
I haven't seen where she said she was satisfied with charges being dropped. I do think she said she was ok with the settlement reached with the restraining orders. But I could be wrong.
Disclaimer - I have no dog in this fight. I'm only pointing out that you can't compare legal decisions to University actions.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
PattyBison
It goes back to attending the University is a privilege and not a right. The University also has a duty to their students to provide a safe environment for their students. The University also has an affirmative consent rule regarding intercourse. Also as you already mentioned the legal aspect is based on beyond a reasonable doubt compared to the University which is based on a preponderance of evidence. Its the same basis as when OJ was not guilty of murder but was found liable in the civil case brought by the Goldman's.
I haven't seen where she said she was satisfied with charges being dropped. I do think she said she was ok with the settlement reached with the restraining orders. But I could be wrong.
Disclaimer - I have no dog in this fight. I'm only pointing out that you can't compare legal decisions to University actions.
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
BisonAccountant44
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no
due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
Preponderance is the standard used in civil cases and is one step below beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
And the same standard for Title IX.
Will be interesting to see how this plays out.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
BisonAccountant44
Where are some of our legal Minds? Grom what I've read, and I don't know if it's true or not, preponderance of evidence is the lowest possible threshold that they could be held to and that there are multiple levels between that and Reasonable Doubt like a criminal case would have.
It seems the part of the players other issue is that there is at least the appearance of no due process for the 10 suspects. That thought process from what I've seen also seems to be carrying over to the parents of players because Antoine Winfield senior came out today saying that if the president and AD keep their jobs Jr will be going to another school regardless of what happens.
If the players are guilty of some type of sexual assault I agree they should all be gone. At this point none of us have any real idea what's going on and it looks more of a guilty until proven innocent situation in which case I can't really blame the players for saying they won't play.
Due process for what? They will have hearings prior to University actions. In the meantime, they are suspended from football activities. Tough call. The U wouldn't look good if they kicked out 5 players and suspended 4 for a year and still allowed them to play in a bowl game.
I have no clue what the right decision is. It's just an ugly mess.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I am not advocating sexual assault!
However, according the video that was shown to the police, she was lucid and a willing participant.
My guess is she pulled the train and had some regrets after the fact and claimed SA. Obviously, the police and prosecutor agreed and decided not to press charges.
Unless they are at BYU and sign a code of conduct that says they can't drink or have sex, I don't believe they should be suspended. I also support the team's decision, because this decision by administration seems railroaded (pun intended).
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
aces1180
I am not advocating sexual assault!
However, according the video that was shown to the police, she was lucid and a willing participant.
My guess is she pulled the train and had some regrets after the fact and claimed SA. Obviously, the police and prosecutor agreed and decided not to press charges.
Unless they are at BYU and sign a code of conduct that says they can't drink or have sex, I don't believe they should be suspended. I also support the team's decision, because this decision by administration seems railroaded (pun intended).
Wasn't it 90 seconds of video and the encounter lasted an hour and a half?
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
At least gopher fans don't have to watch mitch leidner anymore
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Common man just say Kare 11 will be releasing the 82-page report that this committee had when they recommended the expulsion so maybe some answers will come from that.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I side with the football team here.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
What is it with Gopher athletes videotaping themselves and buddies having sex?
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
BlueKeyAlum
What is it with Gopher athletes videotaping themselves and buddies having sex?
It's a billion dollar industry, doncha know!
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
aces1180
I am not advocating sexual assault!
However, according the video that was shown to the police, she was lucid and a willing participant.
My guess is she pulled the train and had some regrets after the fact and claimed SA. Obviously, the police and prosecutor agreed and decided not to press charges.
Unless they are at BYU and sign a code of conduct that says they can't drink or have sex, I don't believe they should be suspended. I also support the team's decision, because this decision by administration seems railroaded (pun intended).
Doesn't Baylor have one of those codes of conduct as well? What a crock of shit those things are. All they do is encourage people not to report abuse.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
mebisonII
I wouldn't have blamed the holiday people would have found someone else to replace them and said...too late ..we found someone else.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Man...I am surprised most are backing the team and players on this. Have you guys read the 80 page report? I think many of the boycotting parents read it, and told their kids, "what the hell are you thinking?" We absolutely need codes of conduct above and beyond the law. If our schools and society's only standard for moral code of conduct is whether or not the police can prosecute you, we are truly f@$#&d. Read the report.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
ByeSonBusiness
I side with the football team here.
You can't be serious!
Athletes that receive scholarships and cost of attendance
Are essentially paid employees of the state of Minnesota and therefore should be held to a higher standard then any other student on campus.... that said mr claeys should be gone for knowing what he obviously knows and being the leader of this group of young men and publicly endorsing this boycott
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
unbison
You can't be serious!
Athletes that receive scholarships and cost of attendance
Are essentially paid employees of the state of Minnesota and therefore should be held to a higher standard then any other student on campus.... that said mr claeys should be gone for knowing what he obviously knows and being the leader of this group of young men and publicly endorsing this boycott
I'm kind of surprised he isn't gone yet. Maybe the University is waiting for some dust to settle.
From my understanding, it started out consensual and then the victim was basically railroaded by multiple players. That isn't ok.
I think I side with the school here. The players are claiming that there was no due process which is BS. There was a criminal investigation, and the prosecution decided they didn't have enough to persue charges. That doesn't mean these players are innocent, which is what they will have you believe. They want you to believe they are being held to a higher standard by the university because they are athletes but they are being held to the same code of conduct as any other student or faculty member.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
the university has a very high standard for consent that wasnt met by piece of shit 2-10+.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Without knowing the facts, I supported the team...
Not anymore! Yikes...
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
Bison bison
the university has a very high standard for consent that wasnt met by piece of shit 2-10+.
It's an extremely high standard for sure. That's where I'm not sure how I feel about things. I understand protecting people from SA. I also understand how an event that is "consensual" where both parties are going along with everything, but maybe both parties have had a bit to drink and someone had second thoughts once they are thinking more clearly now the other person can be in a tough spot. There is always abstinence, however I know what its like to be a college-aged person.
That all being said, it doesn't appear that is what happened here. And I am behind the university 100% here. With the facts that have been leaked, this is a case where there really is no gray area of consent, its pretty black and white.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
The fact that a recruit was involved in some of this is absolutely disgusting.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Yeah, I've only gotten through about 3 of the 80 pages, and it's a much different story now than what was presented a week ago.
That being said, I still don't mind the way the team (not the 10 involved, the other 110) handled this. All they knew was that in September the complaint was filed and the cops didn't file charges. Then 3 1/2 months later out of nowhere twice as many people as had originally been investigated were basically off the team, facing expulsion from school and nobody would (could) tell them why.
They met as a group, decided to believe their teammates and what was known from the legal process at that point and weren't satisfied with the answer of "trust us" from the committee, coaches, AD and Pres so they played the only card they could to get answers. That may or may not have helped expedite Kare 11 finding and releasing the full report, and within hours of the report being released the players read it, got back together and correctly changed their tune.
Now, as for the 10 players and the recruit involved. They can rot in hell, there is no place in this world for treating anyone like that.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
Son of a Bison
The fact that a recruit was involved in some of this is absolutely disgusting.
Wow if that's not a recruiting violation I don't know what is! Well find a woman and train her. Shit that's gotta be borderline illegal in some states!
:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl:
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
I just read the Pioneer Press article. My goodness. That is not for the faint of heart. Zero doubt that very, very poor judgement happened by all involved.
With that said, the U of M must have done a horrible job communicating with the players. I very much doubt any of this would have happened like this if they did.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
BisonAccountant44
Yeah, I've only gotten through about 3 of the 80 pages, and it's a much different story now than what was presented a week ago.
That being said, I still don't mind the way the team (not the 10 involved, the other 110) handled this. All they knew was that in September the complaint was filed and the cops didn't file charges. Then 3 1/2 months later out of nowhere twice as many people as had originally been investigated were basically off the team, facing expulsion from school and nobody would (could) tell them why.
They met as a group, decided to believe their teammates and what was known from the legal process at that point and weren't satisfied with the answer of "trust us" from the committee, coaches, AD and Pres so they played the only card they could to get answers. That may or may not have helped expedite Kare 11 finding and releasing the full report, and within hours of the report being released the players read it, got back together and correctly changed their tune.
Now, as for the 10 players and the recruit involved. They can rot in hell, there is no place in this world for treating anyone like that.
That's exactly why I don't support them. That was and still should be private information they do not have any inherent right to know. Now the school is supposed to just air all the private info out to the public to keep players pacified? Ridiculous.
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
Were these ten players playing during the year?
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Re: Opportunity to pick up some Gopher transfers?
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Originally Posted by
bisonp
That's exactly why I don't support them. That was and still should be private information they do not have any inherent right to know. Now the school is supposed to just air all the private info out to the public to keep players pacified? Ridiculous.
I can see that, but the police investigation was not private information and lead to no charges about the same incident. After that, and the new "charges" coming seemingly nowhere to think that group wasn't going to have questions that they felt needed to be answered isn't realistic. For me, I'm giving the larger group of players the benefit of the doubt that they didn't throw a temper tantrum for no reason and that they legitimately believed their teammates were being wronged. If that is the case I can see why they did what they did, and I don't blame them.
I guess it really depends on what Coyal did or didn't say to them in the team meeting before the boycott when the players weren't satisfied with the answers they did get. If it was the equivalent of him standing in front of the team and saying "I can't tell you anything" on repeat, I can see why they would be frustrated and go down the road they did.
If he got up there and talked to them about as much as he could, explained the different burdens of proof that the two processes needed, maybe did a little of "we know from the police report that this happened, well I can't get into specifics, but our investigation found that plus x" or "the police report said y which meets the preponderance of evidence requirement because" type talking to help them see that there was more to the story and that this was completely legitimate and not a witch hunt, etc. and they still went with the boycott than you're right.