lets drop baseball and add hockey

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

Any sport but hockey.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

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Where's the money gonna come from for that? NDSU can't even finish the SHAC financially.

I'm totally guessing but hockey would be a lot more expensive than baseball as far as equipment etc but maybe I'm totally wrong.

How about let's fully support baseball first. Newman field, other than the fact that it is covered in snow for 8 monthe out of the year, is a first-class facility.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

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It's been forever since I red dotted anyone but damn I was close after reading this, tell me this is a belated April Fools day joke, please! Tell ya what, you write the check and make up the difference between what NDSU puts into its baseball program and what it would take to put a good hockey team on the rink and then we'll talk.

I had a friend from Rochester call me while he was at the Mall of America when all teh hockies fans were in town and he just laughed at all the fat rednecked looking people walking around at the MOA like everyone should be impressed with their hockies sweater. I'm not kidding, that's what he said and of course I reminded him there's a big difference from teh who fans and normal every day Nodaks. If that's what you want, I know some Who boosters who would be more than glad to sign you up. :sigpalm: Buy yourself a Beaver sweater and cheer for them, who doesn't love Beaver?!?

Hockey could potentially make money, baseball is never gonna make money. We have a first class baseball facility, but we can't play on it until the season is half over.

The big question is if we could use scheels arena (i don;t know if it would be possible).

Ladies and gentlemen, your pre-season favorite for Preposterous Statements 2011-2012.

UND can have butthockey...We'll succeed at everything else.

Hells ya, i'll gladly take it.

not this shit again

Hammer, just post the scholy's of teh hockies + Title IX vs. baseball, then we can cut this short as usual.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

Hockey could potentially make money, baseball is never gonna make money. We have a first class baseball facility, but we can't play on it until the season is half over.

The big question is if we could use scheels arena (i don;t know if it would be possible).

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Do some research. Adding Men's hockey would throw Title IX compliance way out of whack. Only way to fix that would be to add either women's hockey or two or possibly three other women's sports. Total overall impact is likely a LOSS of money.

Head on over to downtown Osseo to Dick's bar, have a few beers and then reevaluate this.

Could our club team just join the WCHA??

It would be interesting to see the financials of the other wcha schools (st cloud, Duluth, etc) to see how much money they make or lose with hockey. Obviously, if you had to add womens hockey, you'd lose money on that, but baseball's never gonna make any money.

If ushl teams can draw 4000 fans, ndsu should be able to do at least that.

With regards to Moorhead state talking about adding hockey, they must see some way to break even because there isn't a sport at msum that makes money. Plus, being a mn state school, they can't have state aid.

Title IX. Really that's all you need to know.

BTW, don't compare DII schools. 27 fewer football scholarships makes it a completely different dynamic.

What a STUPID idea financially!

For starters you have no idea just how much money it takes to operate a D1 Hockey team.


#1- Scholarships.
Baseball 11.7(max)
----We are around 7 right now up from 4 three years ago

Hockey 18

#2- Coaches Salaries
Baseball
Head Coach $58,000
Asst Coach $30,000
Asst Coach $30,000
(baseball just added a 2nd full time asst. position this year and added its 1st full time position in 2006)

Hockey
Head Coach- $232,500 (what Hakstol makes right now which is over 30,000 more then Bohl)
Asst Coach- 100,000 (guessing. Eades might make more)
Asst Coach- 75,000

#3- Operations staff
Operations none (coaches do it all)
Equipment Mgr NDSU Staff
Ath Trainer/St Coach NDSU Staff

Hockey (UND has positions JUST for the sport)
Operations $40,000 (guess)
Equipment Mgr $40,000 (guess)
Ath Trainer/St Coach $75,000 (guess, UND has one guy who serves both for hockey only)

#4- Travel
Baseball- 3 flights this year the rest by bus. Probably around $100,000 for the year.
Hockey- probably 5 bus trips the rest by flight. Probably over $400,000 for the year.

#5- Recruiting Budget (scouting, off campus visits, on campus visits)
Baseball- Maybe $25,000 (which would be 3 times more then it was under McLeod)

Hockey- Cant believe it would be under $250,000. Canadian flights aren't cheap out of Grand Forks.

#6- Equipment-
Baseball- Every year Caps, Cleats, socks, batting gloves, bats and baseballs.
replaced every 3 years helmets and catchers gear
(players purchase their own gloves)
Uniforms are replaced about every 5+ years
Guess is $12-$15,000 a year

Hockey- Pretty sure no player pays for anything. Guessing the stick budget is over half of the baseball total equipment budget. (Probably 60+ sticks at $125 ea.) Besides that hockey protective equipment is NOT CHEAP!

#7- Officials- I dont even want to guess how much more a WCHA official is compared to Summit League baseball rates.

#8- Game Facility staff- Hockey would be MUCH larger considering baseballs is virtually nothing.

My best educated guess for total budget
Baseball- $300,000
Hockey- Well over $1.5 million. The coaching salaries equate the total budget for baseball.

The problem with adding mens hockey is you have to add $$$ to the womens athletic budgets because the title IX issue. Which basically means you have to add womens hockey. The baseball budget is where it is at because of the title IX limits. They get whatever is leftover basically after the other mens sports get what they want.

So you need to look at it this way. Would you rather have womens hockey as a complete $ drain on the football program or baseball minding its own business looking for scraps the football team tosses aside.

Just not a very smart fiscal decision.

Great post bisonpride!

Not to mention the lack of a hockey practice facility.

Hockey is really cool! Please continue reading though. Other than Michigan, Mich St, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and maybe a couple more, hockey is a sport for schools that really don't have other moneymakers. I don't want to be a Denver, a Lake Superior, or anything like that.

Very expensive sport but on the bright side it isn't overly difficult to add hockey and be competitive at least from what i've seen. Notre Dame I think re-added hockey in the last 10-15 years and are now very successful. Penn State is getting a team and from what I've heard anyway, are expected by Big Ten schools to be good pretty quickly.

A big reason I think it'd be cool to have is that it'd give me something to watch in the winter other than basketball which has maybe a home game per week. And I think eventually if we could beat UND that'd be pretty awesome to beat them at their own thing. That'd probably take quite awhile.

Lets keep baseball(great facility) and save our money for football/basketball. I am not willing to sacrifice making the big dance and the SHAC so we can make a frozen four. I believe thats what the boosters and alumni have indicated as well.

This is dumb!!!!!!!!!! I vote one more of the smilies be added and thats BEATING A DEAD HORSE

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Originally Posted by mgbison

It would be interesting to see the financials of the other wcha schools (st cloud, Duluth, etc) to see how much money they make or lose with hockey. Obviously, if you had to add womens hockey, you'd lose money on that, but baseball's never gonna make any money.

If ushl teams can draw 4000 fans, ndsu should be able to do at least that.

With regards to Moorhead state talking about adding hockey, they must see some way to break even because there isn't a sport at msum that makes money. Plus, being a mn state school, they can't have state aid.

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it would take decades to become a money maker like und in hockey. im guessing und is one of the few that actually makes money

Let's drop baseball and not add hockey lol

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Originally Posted by HandoEX

Any sport but hockey.

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Nothing wrong with hockey.....its way better than men's soccer, men's volleyball or men's tennis. Of course Hando we know your favorite, men's gymnastics, is not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by SDbison

Nothing wrong with hockey.....its way better than men's soccer, men's volleyball or men's tennis. Of course Hando we know your favorite, men's gymnastics, is not going to happen.

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I like hockey too...It's just so damn expensive and has those bullshit Title IX guidelines that also come into play.

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Originally Posted by aces1180

Where's the money gonna come from for that? NDSU can't even finish the SHAC financially.

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To startup a hockey team its supposed to cost 88 million dollars we are having a rough time scraping toghether 1/3 of that for a multisport complex. source: penn state hockey, use google.

I would guess you would have to have both mens and womens hockey for this to work, probably about 2-3 million a year in upkeep. Its very likely the sport could pay for its yearly cost after a few years. But it would take ALONG time to make back damn near 100 million dollars (startup cost+6 years operation)...........Could the sport make 12 million in 6 years? Maybe. Could it make 100 million HELL NO.

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http://www.yardbarker.com/all_sports...rogram/3253091

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Maybe if the scheels family and a few others take direct interest in DI hockey in fargo, otherwise its not gonna happen.

$14,261,707 guessing our athletic budget would have to be a minimum of 16-17 million for this to even be remotly feasible.. Id rather spend that money on football and basketball :hide:

Part of that 88 million is bieng used to build a new rink. I believe around 50 of it is. So around 40 million to start a hockey team as we already have a hockey arena thats more then capable right now.

Whats going to hurt a lot of these teams now is no gophers no scoonie. Those are almost guarentee sell outs. So a lot of these wcha teams are going to be losing revenue. Everyone is going to want UND who on there home schedule as they are the most hated right now and sell out any where they go thats in Minnesota and colorado.

whats this "WE" crap/

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Originally Posted by lakesbison

whats this "WE" crap/

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Someone heard you have a turd in your pocket.

rustywallace is hardly a bison fan.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

Honestly, we are never gonna be competitive in baseball. After seeing all the UND shirts in the twin cities the past couple of weeks, i think it would be awesome to add hockey. its a northern sport and we are right next to canada and minnesota.

Could we play at scheels arena?

It would be about the same number of scholarships, but i don't know the title 9 rules, so maybe its not possible.

People may say hockey is only a niche sport in the uppermidwest and out east. they are correct, but we are located in the uppermidwest and it would make ndsu more popular in the tri-state area.

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Ill get shit for saying this but your right. Baseball sucks up here because of weather and well never draw well or be competitive.

We live in a hockey state and there is no reason why we can't be competitive within 5-10 years. We live in a region where there is a ton of talent. We have a great facility just waiting for us. You can't ignore the success the Force have had. Heck, at times they outdraw our basketball team with a team of 17 year olds. The atmosphere at that place is electric and its below D1 Hockey.

Even MSUM recognizes the opportunity. We better jump on the opportunity.

If Bemidji can have a good Hockey team there is no reason we can't.

I would get season tickets in a heart beat.

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Originally Posted by gabe

If Bemidji can have a good Hockey team there is no reason we can't.

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Bemidji funds nothing but their hockey and don't have an extra 30+ football scholarships to fill. It would take decades for an NDSU hockey program to become at all relevant. Waste of time and money, IMO.

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Originally Posted by rustywallace

Part of that 88 million is bieng used to build a new rink. I believe around 50 of it is. So around 40 million to start a hockey team as we already have a hockey arena thats more then capable right now.

Whats going to hurt a lot of these teams now is no gophers no scoonie. Those are almost guarentee sell outs. So a lot of these wcha teams are going to be losing revenue. Everyone is going to want UND who on there home schedule as they are the most hated right now and sell out any where they go thats in Minnesota and colorado.

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did you forget youre not on whosports right now?

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

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And I can just as easily say we'll never be relevant in hockey ever.

being RELEVANT in hockey is like being RELEVANT in a Mobile park.


its the midwests version of lacrosse..... except worse.


Fargo Force is a joke, no one goes to the games, i cant even give away free tickets. 1500 actual people a game, max.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

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I'm sure thats what Butler/VCU fans were saying...before they made the Final Four.

I think I'd take my chances with being relevant in hockey over basketball. I guess we'll never know cause we won't ever add hockey.

Hockey is a niche sport only popular in the northern states, but we are a northern state. It may be small time, but go to scheels tomorrow and see if there is more Sioux or bison merchandise there. It's hard to tell and that's sad.

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Originally Posted by mgbison

But, at least there would be a chance to be relevant in hockey. We aren't gonna be relevant in men's basketball, ever.

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Pretty high price to pay to be relevant in a sport where there are a little more than a dozen Division 1 schools participating.

There were less that 4,000 fans watching the Regional Hockey Final in Green Bay. College women's basketball sold out the arena to watch Baylor and A&M play in a Regional Final. Triple the fans. For Women's basketball.

All last week, during the Women's Basketball regional Finals and during the Women's Final Four, ESPN pimped the Frozen Four in St. Paul. Guess what though: THEY NEVER ONCE MENTIONED THE TEAMS PLAYING.

Try find College hockey scores on the ESPN website. Once you find them, you better write some directions down so you don't waste a half hour the next time you look. That's how much the sports world cares about college hockey.

You own comment earlier says it ALL. BEMIDJI STATE is RELEVANT in hockey.

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Originally Posted by DjKyRo

Bemidji funds nothing but their hockey and don't have an extra 30+ football scholarships to fill. It would take decades for an NDSU hockey program to become at all relevant. Waste of time and money, IMO.

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Teammakers for hockey. Additional fund raising. We could do it in 10 years. Would it be easy? No but we have the people to pull it off.
We will NEVER be competitive in baseball.