Masters Golf and Any Other Miscellaneous Golf Discussion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

It is pretty darn weird watching these guys ground their clubs in the sand at Kiawah today. Just strange. I wonder how many calls have already been made to report rules infractions.

---

I’m officially not a fan of Pete Dye... though I do like Sawgrass.

All par 3s are over 200 yards except 1, and it’s 198. Fucking stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

It is pretty darn weird watching these guys ground their clubs in the sand at Kiawah today. Just strange. I wonder how many calls have already been made to report rules infractions.

---

I haven’t been able to watch and haven’t heard anything about this elsewhere, but how the hell does that work?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gavin2126

I haven’t been able to watch and haven’t heard anything about this elsewhere, but how the hell does that work?

---

The whole place is built on sand - its right on the ocean. So lots of ground is "waste area" - even some that look like regular bunkers. I think I heard during coverage this morning that they can ground their club "lightly" most anywhere. The thing I saw that made me make that post was JT actually taking some practice swings contacting the sand before striking his ball. Weird.

In retrospect I believe I have played a course like that somewhere, I forget where. But I do recall having these large areas of sand and wispy grass that were not hazards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

The whole place is built on sand - its right on the ocean. So lots of ground is "waste area" - even some that look like regular bunkers. I think I heard during coverage this morning that they can ground their club "lightly" most anywhere. The thing I saw that made me make that post was JT actually taking some practice swings contacting the sand before striking his ball. Weird.

In retrospect I believe I have played a course like that somewhere, I forget where. But I do recall having these large areas of sand and wispy grass that were not hazards.

---

Also known as “the Dustin Johnson rule.”

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

The whole place is built on sand - its right on the ocean. So lots of ground is "waste area" - even some that look like regular bunkers. I think I heard during coverage this morning that they can ground their club "lightly" most anywhere. The thing I saw that made me make that post was JT actually taking some practice swings contacting the sand before striking his ball. Weird.

In retrospect I believe I have played a course like that somewhere, I forget where. But I do recall having these large areas of sand and wispy grass that were not hazards.

---

So basically it's the exact opposite of the Whistling Straits rule. Where absolutely everything at WS was considered a bunker, absolutely nothing here is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gavin2126

So basically it's the exact opposite of the Whistling Straits rule. Where absolutely everything at WS was considered a bunker, absolutely nothing here is.

---

No, it’s the same everywhere now (hence my allusion to DJ earlier)... after DJ lost the PGA that year, they changed the rule for all courses that have that kind of “waste bunker” landscaping so you can ground your club now...

Just another reason to hate Pete Dye, imo... if you’re designing golf courses that require “special rules” because of your design, you’re doing it wrong...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

No, it’s the same everywhere now (hence my allusion to DJ earlier)... after DJ lost the PGA that year, they changed the rule for all courses that have that kind of “waste bunker” landscaping so you can ground your club now...

Just another reason to hate Pete Dye, imo... if you’re designing golf courses that require “special rules” because of your design, you’re doing it wrong...

---

Ah, I was thinking that the rules were differing based by course. Thanks.

I’m not sure his courses require special rules. I’m am sure that we have them anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

I’m not sure his courses require special rules. I’m am sure that we have them anyway.

---

His courses literally created a rule. So you are incorrect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

His courses literally created a rule. So you are incorrect.

---

people feeling it was somehow unfair that DJ didn’t know the rules created the rule.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

people feeling it was somehow unfair that DJ didn’t know the rules created the rule.

---

Again incorrect. Rewatch the broadcast. No one blames DJ when it happened. In fact, the on-course correspondents went to the exact spot DJ hit from and because it was so trampled down by patrons, no one could tell that it was a waste bunker. It’s a stupid fucking course and a stupid fucking rule.

Unrelated: Fuck Wisconsin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

Again incorrect. Rewatch the broadcast. No one blames DJ when it happened. In fact, the on-course correspondents went to the exact spot DJ hit from and because it was so trampled down by patrons, no one could tell that it was a waste bunker. It’s a stupid fucking course and a stupid fucking rule.

Unrelated: Fuck Wisconsin.

---

Not true. I was watching live and knew immediately that he was in a bunker and had violated the rules. Just because a bunch of rube TV broadcasters who happen to love DJ because he’s good for business made a bunch of lame excuses for what was clearly a mistake on his part but obviously a rules violation doesn’t make it Pete Dye’s fault. Everyone was informed that bunkers outside the ropes weren’t going to be maintained and that they couldn’t ground their club in them.

Here’s a more legitimate complaint about Dye’s courses. The best players in the world can’t seem to get around them in less than 6 hours.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

Not true. I was watching live and knew immediately that he was in a bunker and had violated the rules. Just because a bunch of rube TV broadcasters who happen to love DJ because he’s good for business made a bunch of lame excuses for what was clearly a mistake on his part but obviously a rules violation doesn’t make it Pete Dye’s fault. Everyone was informed that bunkers outside the ropes weren’t going to be maintained and that they couldn’t ground their club in them.

Here’s a more legitimate complaint about Dye’s courses. The best players in the world can’t seem to get around them in less than 6 hours.

---

If you’re making a bunker that has grass growing out of it and for the most part you can’t tell it’s a bunker, you’re doing it wrong. Gary McCord, whom the great movie Tin Cup is loosely based on, is not a golf rube broadcaster who just loves DJ cause he’s good at golf.

Pete Dye should make more Sawgrasses and less Ocean Courses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

If you’re making a bunker that has grass growing out of it and for the most part you can’t tell it’s a bunker, you’re doing it wrong. Gary McCord, whom the great movie Tin Cup is loosely based on, is not a golf rube broadcaster who just loves DJ cause he’s good at golf.

Pete Dye should make more Sawgrasses and less Ocean Courses.

---

Tin Cup is a great movie and Gary McCord is the definition of a golf rube.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

Tin Cup is a great movie and Gary McCord is the definition of a golf rube.

---

If true, golf rube is a compliment and fuck Pete Dye.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

If true, golf rive is a compliment and fuck Pete Dye.

---

Ahhhhhhh, welllll, I gotta say, when it comes to Pete Dye and a good fucking, I think it will be going the other way my friend. Unless of course you just don't play his courses...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

Ahhhhhhh, welllll, I gotta say, when it comes to Pete Dye and a good fucking, I think it will be going the other way my friend. Unless of course you just don't play his courses...

---

There’s a golf course design philosophy out there that doesn’t have any room for Pete Dye Bullshit and I gotta say I’m a fan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

There’s a golf course design philosophy out there that doesn’t have any room for Pete Dye Bullshit and I gotta say I’m a fan.

---

As is your right!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not willing to die on the Pete Dye hill but the rule isn’t called the ‘Pete Dye rule’. It’s called the ‘Dustin Johnson rule’. Find a better reason to not like Pete Dye’s architecture. If it’s really that bad It shouldn’t be difficult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

I’m not willing to die on the Pete Dye hill but the rule isn’t called the ‘Pete Dye rule’. It’s called the ‘Dustin Johnson rule’. Find a better reason to not like Pete Dye’s architecture. If it’s really that bad It shouldn’t be difficult.

---

It’s niche bullshit. They should play more courses like the ones we play.

Why does it feel like Golf Channel is dissing on Mickleson? Or are they just trying to set up what they think will not be a win he can get?

And Justin Leonard critiquing Phil? Umm, go lay by your dish.

Rooting for Lefty tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAS4127

Why does it feel like Golf Channel is dissing on Mickleson? Or are they just trying to set up what they think will not be a win he can get?

And Justin Leonard critiquing Phil? Umm, go lay by your dish.

Rooting for Lefty tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Rooting for lefty too. Hope he gets it done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

It’s niche bullshit. They should play more courses like the ones we play.

---

Oh. You want to see some -100 scores do you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

Oh. You want to see some -100 scores do you?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I seems like every time you turn around some is calling for a rules official, grappling with a plugged lie, or taking a drop. The USGA has the market cornered on protecting par. The PGA should do their own thing. There’s nothing wrong with -14 winning a major.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

I seems like every time you turn around some is calling for a rules official, grappling with a plugged lie, or taking a drop. The USGA has the market cornered on protecting par. The PGA should do their own thing. There’s nothing wrong with -14 winning a major.

---

I completely agree and it really isn't that rare. But letting these elite players play course like we play as Heff suggests would result in some really silly scores. I say give them a test that is appropriate for their skill sets. I really enjoy seeing these guys make shots that I could not execute in 100 tries. Under pressure to boot.

All that said, it really would be nice to see the world #1 and #2 play on the weekend. You know, there used to be a day when you could absolutely count on #1...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

I completely agree and it really isn't that rare. But letting these elite players play course like we play as Heff suggests would result in some really silly scores. I say give them a test that is appropriate for their skill sets. I really enjoy seeing these guys make shots that I could not execute in 100 tries. Under pressure to boot.

All that said, it really would be nice to see the world #1 and #2 play on the weekend. You know, there used to be a day when you could absolutely count on #1...

---

I’m talking more about style of course than difficulty of course. This is an argument in course architecture and design than anything. Look at Augusta. One of the hardest holes on the course is the iconic 12th, a 140-160 yard par 3 with water in front and a couple bunkers.

I’m just saying golf should be a fair test for all skill levels with tee box length being the key differentiator (along with handicap).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CAS4127

Why does it feel like Golf Channel is dissing on Mickleson? Or are they just trying to set up what they think will not be a win he can get?

And Justin Leonard critiquing Phil? Umm, go lay by your dish.

Rooting for Lefty tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

I did not catch this but it sounds stupid. Rootin for Phil.

Rootin' for the field today. Never been a fan of Phil.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

I’m talking more about style of course than difficulty of course. This is an argument in course architecture and design than anything. Look at Augusta. One of the hardest holes on the course is the iconic 12th, a 140-160 yard par 3 with water in front and a couple bunkers.

I’m just saying golf should be a fair test for all skill levels with tee box length being the key differentiator (along with handicap).

---

If the greens at Augusta were anywhere else the players would be in open revolt over how unfair it was.

Sandy waste areas are a staple of virtually every course in the desert southwest. It would be irresponsible to do anything else at this point for both environmental and monetary reasons. I’m not sure why we need those kind of waste areas in a seaside or lakeside setting though and Dye is hardly a designer of low impact golf courses so I can get on board with those sorts of critiques. I just don’t agree with the notion that he’s responsible for the club grounding rule modification.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

I’m talking more about style of course than difficulty of course. This is an argument in course architecture and design than anything. Look at Augusta. One of the hardest holes on the course is the iconic 12th, a 140-160 yard par 3 with water in front and a couple bunkers.

I’m just saying golf should be a fair test for all skill levels with tee box length being the key differentiator (along with handicap).

---

I see ya and generally agree. I don't think length is the only differentiator though. There are numerous things they can do with setup to alter the course challenge. For example I had a friend who was a member of Hazeltine and I played that course once just after the US Open was there. For sure the greens were difficult as they are designed to be. But they weren't like putting on glass like they were for the pros. It was possible to get an approach to stick. Sometimes.

Whatcha think about Donald Ross designs? How about Pinehurst #2? Classic, like Augusta. Tough. And speaking of Augusta those elite players make it look playable. But having been there and seeing those slopes on those greens I can tell you that even if they a metering at 10 or less for the members us mortals would be carding some high scores.

Anyway - to each their own. Pete Dye sure was involved in the design of a whole bunch of courses. I enjoy watching the variety of challenges for these elite players. I doubt they are going to commonly criticize publicly but I think they will for the PGA. I haven't seen anybody calling the course unfair.

The one kind of style I really do dislike is the target course where they don't allow you to see the damn target. Deacon's Lodge in Brainerd comes to mind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

If the greens at Augusta were anywhere else the players would be in open revolt over how unfair it was.

Sandy waste areas are a staple of virtually every course in the desert southwest. It would be irresponsible to do anything else at this point for both environmental and monetary reasons. I’m not sure why we need those kind of waste areas in a seaside or lakeside setting though and Dye is hardly a designer of low impact golf courses so I can get on board with those sorts of critiques. I just don’t agree with the notion that he’s responsible for the club grounding rule modification.

---

Fair points, though I wouldn’t consider the greens at Augusta a niche gimmick, it’s more taking what the landscape gives you, similar to how the waste areas in the southwest are just a part of the landscape. I can get behind that. But to your point, why the sand in Wisconsin (fuck Wisconsin)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

I see ya and generally agree. I don't think length is the only differentiator though. There are numerous things they can do with setup to alter the course challenge. For example I had a friend who was a member of Hazeltine and I played that course once just after the US Open was there. For sure the greens were difficult as they are designed to be. But they weren't like putting on glass like they were for the pros. It was possible to get an approach to stick. Sometimes.

Whatcha think about Donald Ross designs? How about Pinehurst #2? Classic, like Augusta. Tough. And speaking of Augusta those elite players make it look playable. But having been there and seeing those slopes on those greens I can tell you that even if they a metering at 10 or less for the members us mortals would be carding some high scores.

Anyway - to each their own. Pete Dye sure was involved in the design of a whole bunch of courses. I enjoy watching the variety of challenges for these elite players. I doubt they are going to commonly criticize publicly but I think they will for the PGA. I haven't seen anybody calling the course unfair.

The one kind of style I really do dislike is the target course where they don't allow you to see the damn target. Deacon's Lodge in Brainerd comes to mind.

---

Yeah I’m not a fan of any blind shots. More a fan of straightforward courses. What you see is what you get.

I really like Mike Keiser, the architect behind Bandon Dunes. His philosophy of golf course design is the sentiment I’m trying to convey: let the existing landscape dictate the course layout and make it straightforward. Golf is hard enough as it is, we don’t need gimmicks to make it fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldmantutters

Rootin' for the field today. Never been a fan of Phil.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

---

I used to be the same way, Re: Phil... in the last few years, though, he’s really turned it around for me. He posts a lot of funny videos and tweets and is kinda self-deprecating. He’s not the IGJAM he used to be, but he’s got just enough talent to keep it interesting...

Here’s a good example of his content: https://twitter.com/PhilMickelson/st...879205891?s=20

Plus, if he wins he makes history as the oldest major winner and I like seeing history...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

I used to be the same way, Re: Phil... in the last few years, though, he’s really turned it around for me. He posts a lot of funny videos and tweets and is kinda self-deprecating. He’s not the IGJAM he used to be, but he’s got just enough talent to keep it interesting...

Here’s a good example of his content: https://twitter.com/PhilMickelson/st...879205891?s=20

Plus, if he wins he makes history as the oldest major winner and I like seeing history...

---

He is also married to a cancer survivor. I will always pull for someone who has had to deal with that crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

He is also married to a cancer survivor. I will always pull for someone who has had to deal with that crap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Yeah those tears after he won his 3rd green jacket were real...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by heffray

Yeah those tears after he won his 3rd green jacket were real...

---

He’s so far today playing better than any in the field in kinda windy/tricky conditions. If he just pars in he wins I think.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Letting the crowd out on the fairway like the British. LOVE IT!!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have lost control of the crowd. This is incredible. Go get it Lefty!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

and history is written...

Phil Mickelson: author.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison

They have lost control of the crowd. This is incredible. Go get it Lefty!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

That was quite the scene. Phil probably enjoyed it but had to be a little unnerving having everyone right on top of him like that also.