What sort of thread have you made for us? A Wentz thread, if you can keep it.

The play calling was highly suspect. The center was throwing badly to Wentz all day (I don't even think he plays that position). Washington has a bottom 5 O line this season. There was no adjustment till the half. These 7 step drops sucked, should have gone to a shotgun. The Commanders are a stretch out the field offense, they need long-developing plays to get chunk yardage. Brian Robinson who was shot doesn't really have a backup, McKissic and Gibson are hybrids. I could probably write a whole page on what they were doing wrong. Though Carson isn't blameless but he took quite a beating so it's easy to be inaccurate. And the receivers dropped quite a few passes.

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Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan

Honestly watching the QB sacks on Wentz yesterday, I don't know why he's not throwing the ball sooner. He looks like a rookie second guessing himself rather than a veteran who can get rid of the ball. He will be a backup QB shortly.

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It would've been an overreaction to say that after his first two games he was a top 5 quarterback (which is where his statistics were). It's also an overreaction to say that he's going to be a backup soon after one poor game.

It still appears he's a top 15 QB in the league. Has been since he started. I'd have a hard time being convinced otherwise right now.

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Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan

Honestly watching the QB sacks on Wentz yesterday, I don't know why he's not throwing the ball sooner. He looks like a rookie second guessing himself rather than a veteran who can get rid of the ball. He will be a backup QB shortly.

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When Carson called running plays the OLine held up okay, when he called passing plays they were just a sieve. The OC should design more quick short passes for Carson. I think Eagles knew this was Carson's problem. They knew he Carson held on to the ball too long to make big plays so I think on purpose the Eagles DBs stayed back and let Brandon Graham, Fletcher Cox and Sweat man handle the OLine.

Lol "get the ball out faster" I love it when people say that. "just throw it to WRs that are open" "just don't throw any interceptions"

Like just by looking at a qb in the pocket on TV you're able to tell if WR are open downfield...

Next week will be "don't rush into throws"

I tossed my green colored glasses a while back. These seem to be the same issues that have plagued Carson his entire career so either coaches aren't smart enough to make adjustments for his success or it's on him.

Maybe a combination of both, but we've heard all the excuses before. I just wish he could prove his haters wrong on a consistent basis.

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Originally Posted by KSBisonFan

I tossed my green colored glasses a while back. These seem to be the same issues that have plagued Carson his entire career so either coaches aren't smart enough to make adjustments for his success or it's on him.

Maybe a combination of both, but we've heard all the excuses before. I just wish he could prove his haters wrong on a consistent basis.

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Agreed. We will see what the rest of the season holds and I hope he plays like a top 10 QB the rest of the way but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

Agreed. We will see what the rest of the season holds and I hope he plays like a top 10 QB the rest of the way but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck ...

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Unfortunately for Wentz he tends to hold the ball a little longer and as a result relies on a good line. He currently does not have a good line at all so this may not go well. He struggled in Philly when they had a bad oline and he struggled last year cause the Colts have a good run blocking line but it sure seems like a terrible pass blocking line as that poor blocking has continued this year without Wentz. I was really hoping the Commanders would thump the Eagles, but unfortunately that did not happen.

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Originally Posted by Snowgoose

Unfortunately for Wentz he tends to hold the ball a little longer and as a result relies on a good line. He currently does not have a good line at all so this may not go well. He struggled in Philly when they had a bad oline and he struggled last year cause the Colts have a good run blocking line but it sure seems like a terrible pass blocking line as that poor blocking has continued this year without Wentz. I was really hoping the Commanders would thump the Eagles, but unfortunately that did not happen.

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Somehow the the Washington running back Gibson I think his name is, was able to run for almost 4-5 yards everyplay. The Eagles back 4 were outstanding this just aggravated Carson's hero ball problems. He needs a false TE like Zach Ertz.

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Originally Posted by GCWaters

Article in The Washington Post today emphasized needing to get rid of the ball quicker, and Carson said the same thing...be interesting to see if he can do it....

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Yeah he's been saying that every year but he never improves at it. Is who he is at this point I'm afraid.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Lol "get the ball out faster" I love it when people say that. "just throw it to WRs that are open" "just don't throw any interceptions"

Like just by looking at a qb in the pocket on TV you're able to tell if WR are open downfield...

Next week will be "don't rush into throws"

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QB's have to have an internal clock in there head and that needs to speed up when your oline sucks. Doesn't mean you have to force it into somebody but you can throw it over or passed somebody that's covered and not take a sack and lose yardage. A throw away is sometimes OK.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Lol "get the ball out faster" I love it when people say that. "just throw it to WRs that are open" "just don't throw any interceptions"

Like just by looking at a qb in the pocket on TV you're able to tell if WR are open downfield...

Next week will be "don't rush into throws"

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“Any time there’s a number like that, that is not the O-line,” Wentz said, per Ethan Cadeaux of NBC Sports Washington. “I got to get rid of the ball in a lot of those situations and find a way to just find a check down and move on and different things like that. So hats off to their D-line, their front. It’s a good front, but I got to be better and help our guys out.”

I don't know. Seems even Carson thinks he needs to get the ball out faster.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Lol "get the ball out faster" I love it when people say that. "just throw it to WRs that are open" "just don't throw any interceptions"

Like just by looking at a qb in the pocket on TV you're able to tell if WR are open downfield...

Next week will be "don't rush into throws"

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Don't forget he's been accused of "runs too much and gets hurt" as well.

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Originally Posted by RonMexico

“Any time there’s a number like that, that is not the O-line,” Wentz said, per Ethan Cadeaux of NBC Sports Washington. “I got to get rid of the ball in a lot of those situations and find a way to just find a check down and move on and different things like that. So hats off to their D-line, their front. It’s a good front, but I got to be better and help our guys out.”

I don't know. Seems even Carson thinks he needs to get the ball out faster.

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lol yeah he should've just publicly blamed the oline and WRs

look they all could've played better, i just find it funny when a bunch of people online start giving out QB advice as if they've played a snap of competitive football in 40 years

"he needs to get the ball out faster" and "he needs to take less risks and just take the sack" it's just like a pendulum around here

he's had 2 great games and one bad one. he's a mid-tier qb by almost every objective statistic. and that's okay

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Lol "get the ball out faster" I love it when people say that. "just throw it to WRs that are open" "just don't throw any interceptions"

Like just by looking at a qb in the pocket on TV you're able to tell if WR are open downfield...

Next week will be "don't rush into throws"

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Getting the ball out in a hurry is a trait of the best QBs because it means they're reading the defense quicker and have better command of their options. Check out the "PKT TIME" column at https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php. That's the amount of time from the snap until the ball is released or pressure gets to the QB. Wentz (at 2.7 seconds) is 3rd worst this year among QBs with more than a few attempts and the two worse than him are much younger guys (Fields and Lance). On average Rodgers is 0.2 seconds quicker, Mahomes is 0.3 quicker, Brady is 0.5 quicker, and Allen is 0.6 quicker.

Part of that could be attributed to coaching and play calling but Wentz absolutely needs to have better command of the field to know where he can get the ball out quicker when he needs to. There's a reason why statues like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady weren't sacked that much in relation to much more mobile QBs.

I love CW, and fanboy for him as much as anyone...but my gosh, could he have had a worse return to Philly??!!

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Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

Getting the ball out in a hurry is a trait of the best QBs because it means they're reading the defense quicker and have better command of their options. Check out the "PKT TIME" column at https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php. That's the amount of time from the snap until the ball is released or pressure gets to the QB. Wentz (at 2.7 seconds) is 3rd worst this year among QBs with more than a few attempts and the two worse than him are much younger guys (Fields and Lance). On average Rodgers is 0.2 seconds quicker, Mahomes is 0.3 quicker, Brady is 0.5 quicker, and Allen is 0.6 quicker.

Part of that could be attributed to coaching and play calling but Wentz absolutely needs to have better command of the field to know where he can get the ball out quicker when he needs to. There's a reason why statues like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady weren't sacked that much in relation to much more mobile QBs.

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I understand the point being made. Also understand that if the receiver isn't open he can't throw it. He tried that his last season in Philly, we all saw how that worked out for him. Just pulling one stat out of the air doesn't really give you the full picture. Maybe he's blitzed less than those guys, maybe those guys have more cushions on their receivers because they're afraid of getting burned by them?

It's similar to when people trot out the "every time this team rushes for X yards (or even better, X carries), they win the game!" well duh, running the ball more is indicative of having a lead late in the game. Same with WRs being open on routes earlier

Also FWIW, Carson has a better QB rating than Rodgers and Brady this year. But you're telling me that the difference between Wentz being Wentz vs. Wentz being Mahomes is releasing the ball 0.3 seconds faster? lol Mahomes would've gotten sacked 9 times on sunday if he held the ball for 0.3 seconds longer?

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Originally Posted by DCinOK

I love CW, and fanboy for him as much as anyone...but my gosh, could he have had a worse return to Philly??!!

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lol the worst part is it was at home

he's going to get a hell of a warm welcome in philly haha

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I understand the point being made. Also understand that if the receiver isn't open he can't throw it. He tried that his last season in Philly, we all saw how that worked out for him. Just pulling one stat out of the air doesn't really give you the full picture. Maybe he's blitzed less than those guys, maybe those guys have more cushions on their receivers because they're afraid of getting burned by them?

It's similar to when people trot out the "every time this team rushes for X yards (or even better, X carries), they win the game!" well duh, running the ball more is indicative of having a lead late in the game. Same with WRs being open on routes earlier

Also FWIW, Carson has a better QB rating than Rodgers and Brady this year. But you're telling me that the difference between Wentz being Wentz vs. Wentz being Mahomes is releasing the ball 0.3 seconds faster? lol Mahomes would've gotten sacked 9 times on sunday if he held the ball for 0.3 seconds longer?

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I'm saying Wentz's biggest weakness is he holds the ball for too long and the numbers aren't showing him making much improvement in that area so far this year. An incomplete pass is always better than a sack taken.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

lol yeah he should've just publicly blamed the oline and WRs

look they all could've played better, i just find it funny when a bunch of people online start giving out QB advice as if they've played a snap of competitive football in 40 years

"he needs to get the ball out faster" and "he needs to take less risks and just take the sack" it's just like a pendulum around here

he's had 2 great games and one bad one. he's a mid-tier qb by almost every objective statistic. and that's okay

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Wentz constantly plays under his own, self-induced pressure. He just can’t get out of his own way. Short passes for decent gains are available in the NFL almost every play, but he is always pressing, way to intense and way too hyper-focused. He just can’t relax and just play and take what is in front of him and play to the game/D that is there.

I mean, look how simple Brady (and Rodgers) make it look. Wentz just doesn’t get “it”. Wish he would:



https://youtu.be/gZJtQ3p3dMc

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Originally Posted by CAS4127

Wentz constantly plays under his own, self-induced pressure. He just can’t get out of his own way. Short passes for decent gains are available in the NFL almost every play, but he is always pressing, way to intense and way too hyper-focused. He just can’t relax and just play and take what is in front of him and play to the game/D that is there.

I mean, look how simple Brady (and Rodgers) make it look. Wentz just doesn’t get “it”. Wish he would:



https://youtu.be/gZJtQ3p3dMc

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I mean yeah I wish Wentz was Brady or Rodgers or Manning. Look at who we're comparing him to here. He's not perfect, but he's still a pretty good QB and on his best day he can beat anyone.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I mean yeah I wish Wentz was Brady or Rodgers or Manning. Look at who we're comparing him to here. He's not perfect, but he's still a pretty good QB and on his best day he can beat anyone.

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I wasn’t comparing him, moreso contrasting him. Until and if (big if) he understands and gets a feel for the NFL game and gets away from being way overly hyped-up, we’ll have the same discussion and posts right here. He just neither gets “it” nor has “it” to be elite. Is what it is. Maybe his coaches or handlers can talk him down a bit, or maybe they have tried and failed. I don’t know, but I know what I see. And, don’t misinterpret my posts. I would like nothing better for him but to succeed and play consistent. He tries to do too much. Nothing has changed for him. See MT Griz game for reference. Same old same old.

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Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

I'm saying Wentz's biggest weakness is he holds the ball for too long and the numbers aren't showing him making much improvement in that area so far this year. An incomplete pass is always better than a sack taken.

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Did you watch the game? I only saw the first half, but on several of the sacks, he wasn't even done dropping back yet and his tackles were beaten. Is he supposed to throw while he's dropping back? There was a lot of factors in that game - starting center out, they didn't seem to adjust and keep backs or TE's in to help the tackles that were getting smoked. No draws or quick passes to keep the defense honest. Last night Dallas blitzed the shit out of NY and they had some good answers to it at times. (Still lost but had at least some answers).

9 sacks is a shit-ton and I'm sure some were his fault but his o-line got dominated.

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Originally Posted by CAS4127

I wasn’t comparing him, moreso contrasting him. Until and if (big if) he understands and gets a feel for the NFL game and gets away from being way overly hyped-up, we’ll have the same discussion and posts right here. He just neither gets “it” nor has “it” to be elite. Is what it is. Maybe his coaches or handlers can talk him down a bit, or maybe they have tried and failed. I don’t know, but I know what I see. And, don’t misinterpret my posts. I would like nothing better for him but to succeed and play consistent. He tries to do too much. Nothing has changed for him. See MT Griz game for reference. Same old same old.

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I can't imagine playing on your third team with the third OC and probably third offensive mindset in three years helps.

I watched a replay of all nine sacks and the majority were not on Wentz. I will say, his pocket presence was not the greatest that game, and he probably could have helped his oline a little bit more on a couple plays, but there were plenty of times the Eagles D got pressure on the edge and push down the middle. There isn’t really anywhere to run on those occasions. I personally would rather see Wentz rollout a few more times. He seems better on those plays.

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Originally Posted by Bison Bridge Guy

Did you watch the game? I only saw the first half, but on several of the sacks, he wasn't even done dropping back yet and his tackles were beaten. Is he supposed to throw while he's dropping back? There was a lot of factors in that game - starting center out, they didn't seem to adjust and keep backs or TE's in to help the tackles that were getting smoked. No draws or quick passes to keep the defense honest. Last night Dallas blitzed the shit out of NY and they had some good answers to it at times. (Still lost but had at least some answers).

9 sacks is a shit-ton and I'm sure some were his fault but his o-line got dominated.

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No, I didn't watch last Sundays game but I've watched him enough to know he doesn't do his o-line many favors when it comes to getting the ball out of his hands quickly. I'm sure some of those sacks were unavoidable but he has a tendency to take avoidable ones as well.

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Originally Posted by CAS4127

I wasn’t comparing him, moreso contrasting him. Until and if (big if) he understands and gets a feel for the NFL game and gets away from being way overly hyped-up, we’ll have the same discussion and posts right here. He just neither gets “it” nor has “it” to be elite. Is what it is. Maybe his coaches or handlers can talk him down a bit, or maybe they have tried and failed. I don’t know, but I know what I see. And, don’t misinterpret my posts. I would like nothing better for him but to succeed and play consistent. He tries to do too much. Nothing has changed for him. See MT Griz game for reference. Same old same old.

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Yep, pretty much nails it. Somebody posted earlier that on Wentz's best day he could beat anyone. That's the problem...he is always shooting for that best game. If he focused on just playing a good game, he would be much better. Not all things are his fault, but the o-line isn't responsible for him trying to play hero ball.

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Yep, pretty much nails it. Somebody posted earlier that on Wentz's best day he could beat anyone. That's the problem...he is always shooting for that best game. If he focused on just playing a good game, he would be much better. Not all things are his fault, but the o-line isn't responsible for him trying to play hero ball.

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While I agree with you guys I don't think he is intentionally doing it. I almost wonder if it is one of those things where for some players the game really slows down mentally and for others it just doesn't. The best ones the game mentally slows down to where they see everything before it happens and the average guys just never get there at least to an elite level and just rely on their athleticism which gets less as they move up levels and also as they age. I want Wentz to be a top ten for sure, but as mentioned earlier for him this year its a chicken and egg thing. Does he need a good line to be good or does he make the oline look better and its probably both.

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Originally Posted by Snowgoose

While I agree with you guys I don't think he is intentionally doing it. I almost wonder if it is one of those things where for some players the game really slows down mentally and for others it just doesn't. The best ones the game mentally slows down to where they see everything before it happens and the average guys just never get there at least to an elite level and just rely on their athleticism which gets less as they move up levels and also as they age. I want Wentz to be a top ten for sure, but as mentioned earlier for him this year its a chicken and egg thing. Does he need a good line to be good or does he make the oline look better and its probably both.

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And for me, I think he is intentionally doing it...he is always looking for the great play. He sees the possibility and can't stop himself. I want him to succeed...so want him to turn that corner, but I will be surprised if he does.

He just takes too long going thru his reads. Needs to get faster and hit the check down more when the line is not great. There was a video of one of the sacks where he had the RB wide open right up the middle but he never got to him before he got sacked. Still waiting for him to adjust but I doubt he does at this point.

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Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

No, I didn't watch last Sundays game but I've watched him enough to know he doesn't do his o-line many favors when it comes to getting the ball out of his hands quickly. I'm sure some of those sacks were unavoidable but he has a tendency to take avoidable ones as well.

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you didn't even watch the game in which you're trying to explain why he failed?? are you lakes? lol

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Originally Posted by Snowgoose

While I agree with you guys I don't think he is intentionally doing it. I almost wonder if it is one of those things where for some players the game really slows down mentally and for others it just doesn't. The best ones the game mentally slows down to where they see everything before it happens and the average guys just never get there at least to an elite level and just rely on their athleticism which gets less as they move up levels and also as they age. I want Wentz to be a top ten for sure, but as mentioned earlier for him this year its a chicken and egg thing. Does he need a good line to be good or does he make the oline look better and its probably both.

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I would agree. CAS said it too and I agree with him. It has always looked like things were moving really fast for him. He's looked a lot better the last couple of seasons, hopefully it continues slowing down for him. The Eagles sure had the offense's number on sunday but the first two games of the season he was a top 5 qb. I guess we'll see which one is how the season is going to turn out.

It is frustrating, he always seems like he's about to turn the corner to elite/near-elite level and then he takes a few steps back and ends up being closer to average.

ITT: guys who ran an 18 second 40 telling an elite athlete how to do his job better

Wentz needs a good OL & 1 GOOD WR & 1 GOOD TE.

NDSU & philly 2017. (OL, ertz & desean or torrey)
period.
.right now he has 0 OL 1 WR & 0 TES

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I would agree. CAS said it too and I agree with him. It has always looked like things were moving really fast for him. He's looked a lot better the last couple of seasons, hopefully it continues slowing down for him. The Eagles sure had the offense's number on sunday but the first two games of the season he was a top 5 qb. I guess we'll see which one is how the season is going to turn out.

It is frustrating, he always seems like he's about to turn the corner to elite/near-elite level and then he takes a few steps back and ends up being closer to average.

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Do you think it's moving too fast for him, or do you think he's overthinking and is being crippled by that?

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

Wentz needs a good OL & 1 GOOD WR & 1 GOOD TE.

NDSU & philly 2017. (OL, ertz & desean or torrey)
period.
.right now he has 0 OL 1 WR & 0 TES

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https://www.hogshaven.com/2022/9/26/...i1enxFdQSQ8uw4

Now in his 7th year in the league, it’s fair to wonder if Carson Wentz can change his bad habits and get his tendency to hold onto the ball too long under control. If this team wants to have any shot at success this season, it’s going to be imperative that Scott Turner and Ken Zampese do whatever they can to make sure that he does. Meanwhile performances like this are likely to begin earning the ire of his offensive line, if he’s not careful.

He needs a TE like Zach Ertz. Quick short passes, slants , intermediate throws.

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Originally Posted by GCWaters

Do you think it's moving too fast for him, or do you think he's overthinking and is being crippled by that?

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Neither. I think it's moving fast for him. Not "too fast". Not so fast that he's not a top half/mid-tier quarterback. Look at his statistics.

"being crippled" lol. I know it's bisonville and everything is a hyperbole but holy you'd think this was ryan leaf we were talking about the way some of y'all phrase things.

He's far from perfect and he's not elite. Honestly I don't expect him to be. I always thought he'd be a mid-tier QB at best given his ability, grooming and experience. He's there now and apparently it's worth $30M to NFL teams.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Neither. I think it's moving fast for him. Not "too fast". Not so fast that he's not a top half/mid-tier quarterback. Look at his statistics.

"being crippled" lol. I know it's bisonville and everything is a hyperbole but holy you'd think this was ryan leaf we were talking about the way some of y'all phrase things.

He's far from perfect and he's not elite. Honestly I don't expect him to be. I always thought he'd be a mid-tier QB at best given his ability, grooming and experience. He's there now and apparently it's worth $30M to NFL teams.

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Just a metaphor, bro…..

The biggest problem for Carson is 2017 was his most successful season and for most of that season he made huge plays playing "hero ball". Ever since the knee injury he has been much more of a pocket passer but when the media and fans talk about what they expect from a great Wentz it is how he played in 2017. When he makes the "hero ball" plays or when he fails trying to make the "hero ball" plays the media then complains that he is always playing "hero ball". If his most successful season hadn't been predicated on "hero ball" it would probably be easier to work with him to do that less often.

Patrick Mahomes has had similar issues where he plays "hero ball" when he doesn't need to. His most successful seasons also involved "hero ball" and he reverts to that when criticized.

Carson is one of, if not, the smartest QB's in the NFL. I don't believe he has issues reading his progressions. I think his issue is sometimes he waits too long for a bigger play in his progressions as opposed to moving on to the next read which would make the play successful. I think against Philly he might have tried to make the big play to show them and it backfired. I also think Philly hit them in the mouth from the opening gun and the entire offense did not respond. Washington wasn't ready for the aggression that Philly played with. Washington was flat footed and got taken to the woodshed because of it.

The creativity in the offense for the Jaguars game was excellent. They had quick passes to Samuel and Gibson. Sweeps by Samuel. They haven't been very creative to start games and it has burned them. They need to establish a rhythm on offense early against Dallas and expand the playbook as the successes keep building.

1st 2 games he put up 300 yards or so. he'll bounce back this week

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

1st 2 games he put up 300 yards or so. he'll bounce back this week

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That can't be possible he holds onto the ball too long