A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by bisoneer

Too bad the other teams in the MVFC have not been able to pick up the pace and compete with NDSU. When we came into that conference we had to grow up and get up to speed. Since then the other teams have drifted down hill except for SDSU primarily. It has created a quandry for the Bison now on "what to do".

Big 12 is too much of jump given the size of our stadium, would they even take us in? MAC is not as competitive as what we want IMO. MWC is a lot more travel costs and then you have Boise St. and WYO then... good?

How about a new FBS conference creation with NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UNI, N. Ill., and lets see.... one or two more.... Toledo and ???
Would the NCAA support this? How about sponsors and TV contracts? Not a chance I suppose...

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Honestly I really dislike the idea of a “move up” MVFC. Most of those teams aren’t competitive with NDSU as it is (UNI included), so they likely won’t be at a higher level nor are they in any position whatsoever to play up. Also really dislike the idea of 4 other new FBS teams with an extra 22 scholarships to give in a sparely populated Midwest. The recruiting will become diluted at some point, and we’d all be talking about following Idaho’s lead. Right now NDSU pulls the recruits and everyone else picks up the table scraps, and there is plenty to go around. I’d prefer to move up, with the other teams staying in FCS where they are more competitive.

No conference available and no money trees means we wait. Maybe some day the stars will align. If a G5 realignment happened, NDSU would likely be a very strong candidate. That was Gene Taylor’s vision from the start, but it will just take more time than we’d like

Wife and I have missed 3 home games this year due to bad farming weather and delayed harvest conditions. Sold our seats a couple weeks ago after asking many friends who did not or could not go, finally put on facebook and someone in Fgo took them. Went to this last game vs. USD and it was another real sleeper. The fan in front of us plays on his phone the whole game and many blue seats by the early 3rd quarter. The place is losing its thunder except for 2 or 3 games a year at home like vs. SDSU or Ill. St. or UNI and then maybe a playoff game or 2. For the lack of enthusiasm is the ever increasing price of the season tickets worth it? I would have shut the combine off on Saturday a few years ago and go to the game, now it is harder to do that. Have had season tickets since 08. Planning to keep them as my blood is green but economics and psychology class analysis votes otherwise?

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Originally Posted by bisoneer

Too bad the other teams in the MVFC have not been able to pick up the pace and compete with NDSU. When we came into that conference we had to grow up and get up to speed. Since then the other teams have drifted down hill except for SDSU primarily. It has created a quandry for the Bison now on "what to do".

Big 12 is too much of jump given the size of our stadium, would they even take us in? MAC is not as competitive as what we want IMO. MWC is a lot more travel costs and then you have Boise St. and WYO then... good?

How about a new FBS conference creation with NDSU, SDSU, UND, USD, UNI, N. Ill., and lets see.... one or two more.... Toledo and ???
Would the NCAA support this? How about sponsors and TV contracts? Not a chance I suppose...

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NCAA has specific rules on what conferences can and cant do. That goes for existing and making one up.

After reading that AAC forum they really see themselves as wanting to be a P6 conference when it shakes out.. I think the bison have to just like anyone else take the promotion to the mac or whatever- dominate that and then work on making the next level.

really 3 things are gonna happen to NDSU football

1- we keep destroying the FCS and it get more boring every year...
2- we actually fall off and become an average fcs team in which case this program and our chances to move up are done forever... 8k crowds at the dome... you think beating UNI by 42 sucks see what happens if we lose to them by 42 some day...
3- we move up to the mac or whatever and we work on dominating that.. and see where it goes..

you FCS FOREVER fans still wont tell me what is left in the FCS that the Bison can do?? no one in the country or Fargo for that matter gives a crap if we win 9 out of 10 or 19 out of 20. Your really are just fine with NDSU being in the FCS for the next 20 years?

Winning titles and going undefeated when everyone in the world predicts it preseason is not an accomplishment.. its the bare minimum.. its like going for all you can eat tacos then having to take a dump the next morning... you dont go into work and brag about it.

Would you cheer on a grown man slapping a 10 yr old girl around at the mall? or call the police? cause that is about where we are.

and we wont ever be hotter than right now... all these titles, beating the big boys and Wentz in the NFL.. Would beating Oregon change anyones opinion?

How would winning the MAC and finish ranked #21 in the country be less of an accomplishment then winning title 12 out of 13?

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

and we wont ever be hotter than right now... all these titles, beating the big boys and Wentz in the NFL.. Would beating Oregon change anyones opinion?

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Strike while the iron is hot

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

Can't move up a whole conference.

I still don't know why a talk of a new stadium hasn't be bantied about more .

On Campus, Owned by NDSU, All Revenue goes to NDSU.
4 Corporations, $50 million each (over 25 years ) They each get their own corner concourse of the stadium for marketing
NDSU raises $75 million.

$275 Million 42,000 seat Semi Enclosed 2 deck stadium keeps the wind out. NDSU can sell beer there, Have Concerts, NDSU Departments could utilize it.

NDSU engineering/architecture students could be apart of it. It would give you a valid reason to raise Student Fee's.

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First, an open/semi-open/semi-enclosed stadium is not a possibility, so stop suggesting it like it could happen.

Second, the idea of NDSU completely owning a domed stadium is more problems than you realize. Your clueless suggesting that NDSU find four corporations willing to each shell out $2 million/year for 25 years for corner concourses to just build a stadium. How are you going to approach other corporations for upkeep costs. For example, the Denver Broncos struggled to find a corporation willing to shell out $6 million/year for a whole dang stadium that already exists, not to build a new one. Now that NDSU "owns" the stadium, they are now responsible for all the costs the City of Fargo provides for the FargoDome, like insurance, employees or bidding for rights to host events/acts.

If NDSU ever hired someone with your sports management expertise, or even mine, they are screwed.

Look I’m all pro-FBS if we get an invite, and I think we should be trying our best to get one, but I think we’re getting to some UND-level delusion here.

1) The FBS schools would NEVER allow us to move an entire conference to FBS. It waters down the brand, and more importantly introduces a whole host of schools that don’t belong to the dinner party trying to find seats at the table.

2) Schools from the MAC are NEVER going to jump ship to join a new “plucky darlings of the Midwest FCS” conference. Not sure where that idea even came from.

3) The AAC is NEVER going to offer NDSU straight from FCS. And even if they did, how good our football team is would be the last criteria utilized. I’ll quickly list off all the reasons schools have been added to conferences in the last 15 years: national brand recognition, tv market, geographic footprint (proximity to other schools), academic prestige, recruiting footprint. There are probably 25 schools that fit all these criteria better than us.

If it ever even got that far, the commissioner of the AAC would make it through about 4 seconds of the first Proseed commercial on the broadcast before he would outlaw his employees from mentioning NDSU and member in the same sentence.

I’m all for moving up, but if you’re going to have a serious discussion about it you need to be realistic. It would involve a MAC, Sun Belt, MWC (God I hope MWC) level conference. You can start talking about breaking into the top level of FBS after about a decade of building our brand at the FBS level, the population of FM hopefully doubling, improved academic prestige and better TV (or virtual reality at that point??) market base.

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

you FCS FOREVER fans still wont tell me what is left in the FCS that the Bison can do?? no one in the country or Fargo for that matter gives a crap if we win 9 out of 10 or 19 out of 20. Your really are just fine with NDSU being in the FCS for the next 20 years?

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What you and others like you won't accept is that there are very few "FCS Forever" fans. There's a small group that says "No FBS without a playoff", but the vast majority of those you ridicule would be for FBS if a viable option was available. You call them shortsighted, but you are just as shortsighted when you say NDSU should go FBS right now with no plan or option in place to make it happen. You think that if NDSU were to announce they were going FBS, a conference invites from all over would magically appear just because FBS conferences would be falling over each other to let NDSU in. It's just not the case.

Most of us would like FBS at this point, but the window isn't open. All we can do for the moment is be ready for that moment. It might happen in a year; it might take five; it might take ten. I think it will be closer to five than ten, but who knows.

The only thing that will suck when NDSU does go FBS is the idiots that claim they were right all along and that everyone else was wrong. When the reality will be the opposite.

another thing too wouldn't a FBS NDSU decimate the MVFC? Those extra 22 scholly would basically be the 2 best players off of those teams rosters..

and once NDSU leaves the FCS is nothing... even on the 1/million chance SDSU goes on to win 5 in a row, beats multiple big 10 schools and puts a guy in the #2 slot in the NFL draft... the national media would be " been there done that"

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Originally Posted by X-Factor

Honestly I really dislike the idea of a “move up” MVFC. Most of those teams aren’t competitive with NDSU as it is (UNI included), so they likely won’t be at a higher level nor are they in any position whatsoever to play up. Also really dislike the idea of 4 other new FBS teams with an extra 22 scholarships to give in a sparely populated Midwest. The recruiting will become diluted at some point, and we’d all be talking about following Idaho’s lead. Right now NDSU pulls the recruits and everyone else picks up the table scraps, and there is plenty to go around. I’d prefer to move up, with the other teams staying in FCS where they are more competitive.

No conference available and no money trees means we wait. Maybe some day the stars will align. If a G5 realignment happened, NDSU would likely be a very strong candidate. That was Gene Taylor’s vision from the start, but it will just take more time than we’d like

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It's not really 22 more scholarship players. Its 22 more scholarships.

FCS let's you offer 63 scholarships to up to 85 kids I think. FBS is 85 full rides. I dont see how that would negatively impact NDSU, though I am sure someone has given that more thought than I have.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

What you and others like you won't accept is that there are very few "FCS Forever" fans. There's a small group that says "No FBS without a playoff", but the vast majority of those you ridicule would be for FBS if a viable option was available. You call them shortsighted, but you are just as shortsighted when you say NDSU should go FBS right now with no plan or option in place to make it happen. You think that if NDSU were to announce they were going FBS, a conference invites from all over would magically appear just because FBS conferences would be falling over each other to let NDSU in. It's just not the case.

Most of us would like FBS at this point, but the window isn't open. All we can do for the moment is be ready for that moment. It might happen in a year; it might take five; it might take ten. I think it will be closer to five than ten, but who knows.

The only thing that will suck when NDSU does go FBS is the idiots that claim they were right all along and that everyone else was wrong. When the reality will be the opposite.

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You dont think there are invites now then what happens with any kind of decline? If everyone got on board and was vocal to the administration they would find a way into the FBS or just go independent... but that takes courage and putting it on the line... a lot easier to sit back and just go 16-0 every year and keep your jobs.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I’m all for moving up, but if you’re going to have a serious discussion about it you need to be realistic. It would involve a MAC, Sun Belt, MWC (God I hope MWC) level conference. You can start talking about breaking into the top level of FBS after about a decade of building our brand at the FBS level, the population of FM hopefully doubling, improved academic prestige and better TV (or virtual reality at that point??) market base.

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I understand why some(most?) would prefer the MWC, but I would actually prefer the MAC. I know it's not as sexy, but I'd view as a stepping stone conference. Get our foot in the door, make some waves, try for something better within ten years. I like the MAC because of Central Time Zone games, easier travel, a matching recruiting footprint, and that it would probably be a touch easier to dominate the conference quickly for good bowl games. Since we'd like to move on quickly, the faster we could make an FBS name for ourselves, the better.

But what I'd like to see don't mean squat. What matters is what the MAC, MWC & Sun Belt want. And right now, that ain't us. We'll see how things start to shake out as we get closer to 2025 and the renewal of the CFP agreement as well as a bunch of P5 media deals.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

Strike while the iron is hot

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exactly... what if we wait for the G5 split and due to injuries or god knows what we go like 9-4 and lose in the quarters and have 10K attendance... try explaining that to a FBS conference why they should take us now? its over..

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

another thing too wouldn't a FBS NDSU decimate the MVFC? Those extra 22 scholly would basically be the 2 best players off of those teams rosters..

and once NDSU leaves the FCS is nothing... even on the 1/million chance SDSU goes on to win 5 in a row, beats multiple big 10 schools and puts a guy in the #2 slot in the NFL draft... the national media would be " been there done that"

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See previous post, it’s the same amount of players. It’s just more full rides.

As to your second point, go ask an Appy or Georgia Southern fan thinks of our championships.

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Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness

It's not really 22 more scholarship players. Its 22 more scholarships.

FCS let's you offer 63 scholarships to up to 85 kids I think. FBS is 85 full rides. I dont see how that would negatively impact NDSU, though I am sure someone has given that more thought than I have.

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Yes, more scholarships, not more players. What would be interesting is how many scholarships would be added for Women's sports. Based on the interest prong NDSU uses, it doesn't have to be a full 22 to match the Men.

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

another thing too wouldn't a FBS NDSU decimate the MVFC? Those extra 22 scholly would basically be the 2 best players off of those teams rosters..

and once NDSU leaves the FCS is nothing... even on the 1/million chance SDSU goes on to win 5 in a row, beats multiple big 10 schools and puts a guy in the #2 slot in the NFL draft... the national media would be " been there done that"

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It wouldnt change anything. Fcs would go back to what it was before NDSU. Why would you think that the 22 extra would be coming off the MVFC teams??? That cannot be determined. Heck some of those could be filled by players who traditionally would have gone to the bigger school.

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Originally Posted by Christopher Moen

Yes, more scholarships, not more players. What would be interesting is how many scholarships would be added for Women's sports. Based on the interest prong NDSU uses, it doesn't have to be a full 22 to match the Men.

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And that also means more schollies for ALL sports which means more $$$$$$$$$. Most havent thought of that. Wheres all that money going to come from. Travel for all those players and teams.

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

You dont think there are invites now then what happens with any kind of decline? If everyone got on board and was vocal to the administration they would find a way into the FBS or just go independent... but that takes courage and putting it on the line... a lot easier to sit back and just go 16-0 every year and keep your jobs.

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And that's why those of us that follow this stuff think that guys like you are clueless on this topic. You can count the number of FBS programs that could successfully go independent on one hand, and NDSU ain't one of them. You either need a very large, nationwide, dedicated fanbase(ND, BYU), or you need piles of cash(Liberty). NDSU doesn't have either and won't. Going independent in FBS is not like FCS. People like you point to the DI move and claim the situations are similar, but they're not. You conveniently forget that we had a scheduling alliance back then that we wouldn't have today. And that the money situation in FBS is an order of magnitude greater than FCS. It's just not the same situation.

And that completely ignores the fact that conference decisions are not made based on on-the-field performance.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

us Pro-FBS fans have no gotten Bison 1660 , KFAN MPLS, Kfan Fargo and Inforum and KVRR sports people to discuss NDSU to FBS. its literally all over right now.

the AAC conference thread, the Bison Fatique thread. heck Trey Lance thread.

Let's all stop being scared and do something 1 time in our lifetimes that will be incredible!!! NDSU to the FBS could be bigger than anything you could ever imagine. same discussions as 2002 and 2003 are happening everywhere.

you naysayers then need to step aside once again and be proved wrong

NDSU CAN SUCCEED AT FBS.

Appy St, Kansas State, Wyoming all ranked in top 25 this year....You know dam well NDSU could be too

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Who's scared and has yet to do at least one incredible thing in their lifetime? You're hanging out with the wrong group dude.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

And that also means more schollies for ALL sports which means more $$$$$$$$$. Most havent thought of that. Wheres all that money going to come from. Travel for all those players and teams.

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Actually, no. Pretty sure NDSU is now fully-funded across the board. Going FBS doesn't mean basketball or soccer or volleyball could get more scholarships; they're already maxed out. I do think NDSU would need to add at least one more women's sport just to keep things in the ballpark, but the additional scholarships would be for football and these new teams; no others.



The situation does open a low-cost option: Stay in the Summit and add a women's sport or two, and get a football-only invite to the MAC or Sun Belt or something. It would allow us to keep our non-football budgets fairly low while we ramp up for FBS. Then once the FB program is established in FBS, find a full FBS home and ramp up the funding for the olympic sports. But the problem once again comes back to where the invite will come from. Conferences aren't handing them out like candy.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

And that also means more schollies for ALL sports which means more $$$$$$$$$. Most havent thought of that. Wheres all that money going to come from. Travel for all those players and teams.

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I thought we were already to the max for the other sports. For example, wrestling is 9.9 (was 11 before the 10% cutback way back in the day). That is the maximum allowed for them regardless if NDSU goes from FCS to FBS in football.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Actually, no. Pretty sure NDSU is now fully-funded across the board. Going FBS doesn't mean basketball or soccer or volleyball could get more scholarships; they're already maxed out. I do think NDSU would need to add at least one more women's sport just to keep things in the ballpark, but the additional scholarships would be for football and these new teams; no others.

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Yes we are fully funded for what we are allowed to offer. For clarification---basketball, baseball, T and F etc has the same scholarship numbers be it NDSU or Notre Dame?

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Yes we are fully funded for what we are allowed to offer. For clarification---basketball, baseball, T and F etc has the same scholarship numbers be it NDSU or Notre Dame?

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Correct. DI is DI. The only sport where the scholarships limits are different is football.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Correct. DI is DI. The only sport where the scholarships are different is football.

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Thank you for the correction!. I thought there were different numbers. Well that certainly helps out on the Money except for having to add another sport to stay in compliance .

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Thank you for the correction!. I thought there were different numbers. Well that certainly helps out on the Money except for having to add another sport to stay in compliance .

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The biggest problem with money is that we need to realistically double or triple our MBB budget to get real looks; maybe even quadruple it. Our MBB budget is a joke compared to the good mid-major conferences including many of the G5.

One reason our football is so good is that we pay our assistants top dollar for our level. It lets us hire top people and keep them a year or two longer before they move up. We don't have the same advantage in MBB. We're not nearly as bad as UND, but that's saying absolutely nothing; their pay is worse than bad.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

The biggest problem with money is that we need to realistically double or triple our MBB budget to get real looks; maybe even quadruple it. Our MBB budget is a joke compared to the good mid-major conferences including many of the G5.

One reason our football is so good is that we pay our assistants top dollar for our level. It lets us hire top people and keep them a year or two longer before they move up. We don't have the same advantage in MBB. We're not nearly as bad as UND, but that's saying absolutely nothing; their pay is worse than bad.

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Good points. If you are going to move up you are going to pay the price to do so. Plus its not a one year thing. That has to be raised every year. Thats going to be a pretty big nut to crack. Fund raising is going to have to step up especially with all of the other building projects going on.

50% of the people use logic with their points.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Boy wouldn't that Gasparilla Bowl (AAC) or Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (MAC) put NDSU on the map.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

The biggest problem with money is that we need to realistically double or triple our MBB budget to get real looks; maybe even quadruple it. Our MBB budget is a joke compared to the good mid-major conferences including many of the G5.

One reason our football is so good is that we pay our assistants top dollar for our level. It lets us hire top people and keep them a year or two longer before they move up. We don't have the same advantage in MBB. We're not nearly as bad as UND, but that's saying absolutely nothing; their pay is worse than bad.

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This is where NDSU has a lot of work to do. Absolutely have to spend more on BB to even think of getting a conference invite. Hopefully after the IPF is completed we can start ramping up our BB budgets.

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Originally Posted by fmfantasy

and we wont ever be hotter than right now... all these titles, beating the big boys and Wentz in the NFL.

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Correct. Yet not one single P5/G5 conference invite. That is concerning.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

See previous post, it’s the same amount of players. It’s just more full rides.

As to your second point, go ask an Appy or Georgia Southern fan thinks of our championships.

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They are impressed with our continued success and winning titles. The common opinion among their fan base is that they are very proud of their FCS past (titles and such) but they would never want to go back to the FCS from the Sun Belt. A lot of them thought that they would miss the National Title games but in all reality they do look forward to the Bowl games just as much. They get more publicity now being ranked, better football recruits, and get to host P5 schools such as Miami, Wake Forest, NC, SC. Home games against P5 schools alone makes up for the lack of a chance at a National Title. Their main goal as of now is to make it to the NY6 Bowl (Cotton Bowl).

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

The biggest problem with money is that we need to realistically double or triple our MBB budget to get real looks; maybe even quadruple it. Our MBB budget is a joke compared to the good mid-major conferences including many of the G5.

One reason our football is so good is that we pay our assistants top dollar for our level. It lets us hire top people and keep them a year or two longer before they move up. We don't have the same advantage in MBB. We're not nearly as bad as UND, but that's saying absolutely nothing; their pay is worse than bad.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Good points. If you are going to move up you are going to pay the price to do so. Plus its not a one year thing. That has to be raised every year. Thats going to be a pretty big nut to crack. Fund raising is going to have to step up especially with all of the other building projects going on.

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Originally Posted by Bisonator98

This is where NDSU has a lot of work to do. Absolutely have to spend more on BB to even think of getting a conference invite. Hopefully after the IPF is completed we can start ramping up our BB budgets.

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Agreed on these points, especially if we are looking to get an All-Sports conference invite. The MBB program isnt CLOSE if we desire to take all sports to a new conference- couldnt agree more.

However the point is moot if the intention is for football only invite

I've thought the same thing- OBVIOUSLY MWC and AAC have a much higher level of competition- but I think we could "rise" quicker in the MAC. Establish dominance faster etc. I would imagine a 10-2, 11-1 MAC conference champion is going to get more hype than a 8-4 MWC team would. That's not a pro or anti FBS comment, but that is a pro to the MAC that would be alot harder to replicated in the MWC and AAC- and of course, this is all in a fantasy world as this doesn't accomplish any of the hurdles of Jumping.

App state I think would have definitely wanted to go C-USA or AAC, but they've definitely made lemonade out of the Lemon that is the Sun-Belt conference. I'd say Sun Belt has jumped C-USA in perception of quality

Head coaching salaries:
MAC 450K-800K
MWC 500K-1.8m
AAC 1.7m-5m

No idea what the assistance make.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Boy wouldn't that Gasparilla Bowl (AAC) or Famous Idaho Potato Bowl (MAC) put NDSU on the map.

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At least they aren't played in soccer stadiums... and winning a potato bowl is at least something we haven't ever done.. but that 14th out of 15 soccer stadium title against Pud U will be something special wont it...

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Originally Posted by 23Bison

Head coaching salaries:
MAC 450K-800K
MWC 500K-1.8m
AAC 1.7m-5m

No idea what the assistance make.

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NDSU spent about $1.6M on football coaches salaries in 2017 (which was 3rd amongst public FCS schools behind JMU and Delaware): http://cafidatabase.knightcommission...itution_data-2

That's already pretty comparable with the average MAC coaching staff. MWC or AAC you'd be looking at two to three times that altogether for the whole staff: http://cafidatabase.knightcommission...ports/55a60946

Power 5
Group of 5
FCS
D2
D3

NDSU is in the 3rd Tier. I was told over and over again by Gene Taylor Dean and Stony Brook AD in the media that "NDSU will always want to remain in the 2nd division of football"
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You can be adamantly pro FCS (and honestly my favorite option is for the FCS to raise their talent and prestige and STAY instead of jumping), but You are freaking delusional if you think we are in the 2nd tier. The G5 has no shot at the "national title" which means they are inherently at a different. And we are inherently at a different level than the G5.

If you cant agree to this basic fact, than you dont belong in the conversation- at all. You either have to prove that the G5 and the P5 are exactly the same (which is hilarious since they are so vastly different that they have different names, lol), or prove that the FCS is exactly the same as G5.

We aint 2nd tier guys. Talent wise, we are arguably tier 1. but we are tier 3. Tier 3 isnt necessarily bad- but we are certainly in the 3rd tier.

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Originally Posted by MankatoBison

You can be adamantly pro FCS (and honestly my favorite option is for the FCS to raise their talent and prestige and STAY instead of jumping), but You are freaking delusional if you think we are in the 2nd tier. The G5 has no shot at the "national title" which means they are inherently at a different. And we are inherently at a different level than the G5.

If you cant agree to this basic fact, than you dont belong in the conversation- at all. You either have to prove that the G5 and the P5 are exactly the same (which is hilarious since they are so vastly different that they have different names, lol), or prove that the FCS is exactly the same as G5.

We aint 2nd tier guys. Talent wise, we are arguably tier 1. but we are tier 3. Tier 3 isnt necessarily bad- but we are certainly in the 3rd tier.

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I think the Bison are 5th tier.

Tier 1: SEC/Big Ten/Clemson/Big 12
Tier 2: Rest of the ACC/Pac 12
Tier 3: AAC/MWC
Tier 4: CUSA/Sun Belt/MAC
Tier 5: MVFC/Big Sky/CAA

Wanna fight about it???