High School post-season: ND, SD, MN, WI

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Originally Posted by EndZoneQB

Is it a "miss" or did UND just "score"? Speed doesn't make you a great football player, maybe he just developed nicely. For example, look at Colt McCoy, a lot of people didn't think he'd even make it at Texas...

I'm surprised we haven't done any screen passes or anything to Shamen this year(that I remember off the top of my head?). If he really has 4.3x speed, and what seems like absurd cutting ability, we need to get him the ball, and let him do something with it...

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I think we truly did "miss". I think we looked at Shamen and Weston and evaluated Shamen as the better talent and didn't offer Weston a full scholarship. I would say that is a "miss" based on how each of thier careers played out. Also, Weston wasn't a "project" he was a refined, skilled player at a very young age. Very football savvy and tenacious. If anything, I think your point speaks more to us looking at Shamen's speed and thinking that made him a great football player not the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Bison06

I think we truly did "miss". I think we looked at Shamen and Weston and evaluated Shamen as the better talent and didn't offer Weston a full scholarship. I would say that is a "miss" based on how each of thier careers played out.

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I think we took a chance on a legitimately better athlete. Shamen hasn't been "terrible", just has been injury prone...which sometimes is hard to predict. I don't believe he was ever meant to be a receiving threat, but as a role player/return man. Shamen showed promise right away, but injuries can change a player...especially his specific injuries. Shamen also has spent the majority of his time against FCS/FBS competition whereas Dressler played in DII, which I think HAS to be mentioned.

when Shamen was healthy he was a tad bit more explosive than Dressler

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Originally Posted by EndZoneQB

I think we took a chance on a legitimately better athlete. Shamen hasn't been "terrible", just has been injury prone...which sometimes is hard to predict. I don't believe he was ever meant to be a receiving threat, but as a role player/return man. Shamen showed promise right away, but injuries can change a player...especially his specific injuries. Shamen also has spent the majority of his time against FCS/FBS competition whereas Dressler played in DII, which I think HAS to be mentioned.

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I think those are all valid points and it is easy to look back once careers have played out and say we should have done things differently, but when ND has an in-state guy that runs 10.4 and the football ability that Weston had, you have to offer him a full ride, have to. A school like NDSU has got to get the best talent in ND or at least offer them a chance to play football at NDSU. I agree with you Ming about the explosiveness that Shamen had when he came in, but he was never a good running back or reciever. I don't think at the FCS level you can afford to waste a scholarship on a return/role player guy, they have to contribute in other areas of the game and Shamen IMO has been a disappointment. Granted injuries have played a role in that.

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Originally Posted by Bison06

I think those are all valid points and it is easy to look back once careers have played out and say we should have done things differently, but when ND has an in-state guy that runs 10.4 and the football ability that Weston had, you have to offer him a full ride, have to. A school like NDSU has got to get the best talent in ND or at least offer them a chance to play football at NDSU. I agree with you Ming about the explosiveness that Shamen had when he came in, but he was never a good running back or reciever. I don't think at the FCS level you can afford to waste a scholarship on a return/role player guy, they have to contribute in other areas of the game and Shamen IMO has been a disappointment. Granted injuries have played a role in that.

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Think about this tho...yeah I agree we should try to get the best players from ND, but do you think getting Dressler was worth maybe not being able to offer Heckendorf? Heckendorf was responsible for a lot of our offense and always made the clutch plays. We almost owe as much thanks to him as Walker.

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Originally Posted by Bison06

I think those are all valid points and it is easy to look back once careers have played out and say we should have done things differently, but when ND has an in-state guy that runs 10.4 and the football ability that Weston had, you have to offer him a full ride, have to. A school like NDSU has got to get the best talent in ND or at least offer them a chance to play football at NDSU. I agree with you Ming about the explosiveness that Shamen had when he came in, but he was never a good running back or reciever. I don't think at the FCS level you can afford to waste a scholarship on a return/role player guy, they have to contribute in other areas of the game and Shamen IMO has been a disappointment. Granted injuries have played a role in that.

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And his off the field behavior didn't help him either.:smh:

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Originally Posted by Bison06

I think those are all valid points and it is easy to look back once careers have played out and say we should have done things differently, but when ND has an in-state guy that runs 10.4 and the football ability that Weston had, you have to offer him a full ride, have to. A school like NDSU has got to get the best talent in ND or at least offer them a chance to play football at NDSU. I agree with you Ming about the explosiveness that Shamen had when he came in, but he was never a good running back or reciever. I don't think at the FCS level you can afford to waste a scholarship on a return/role player guy, they have to contribute in other areas of the game and Shamen IMO has been a disappointment. Granted injuries have played a role in that.

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Did we offer Dressler a full scholly? I think either way he would've chosen UND. i dont think it's because we werent as interested in Dressler as much as UND was, I think it's more of he was more interested in UND. The Dressler family is a big UND family.

I think Shamen was worth the scholly offer. Big explosive playmaker. Earlier in his career he was huge for us. He had the potential to score at any time. We ran him on reverses, screens, dump passes and even gave him some carries and I remember him turning some of those into huge runs... it's just too bad the injuries have set him back.

No if I had the choice between those two, I would probably take Heck. But I don't think that was the choice. I think in the minds of NDSU coaches they thought, Weston or Shamen and just chose wrong IMO. To be frank, I think the coaches at the time didn't think ND could produce great position players and that played a role in this decision. Again hindsite is 20/20, but to be THE place to be in the upper midwest, I think getting the best in ND is essential.

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Originally Posted by ming01

Did we offer Dressler a full scholly? I think either way he would've chosen UND. i dont think it's because we werent as interested in Dressler as much as UND was, I think it's more of he was more interested in UND. The Dressler family is a big UND family.

I think Shamen was worth the scholly offer. Big explosive playmaker. Earlier in his career he was huge for us. He had the potential to score at any time. We ran him on reverses, screens, dump passes and even gave him some carries and I remember him turning some of those into huge runs... it's just too bad the injuries have set him back.

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You may be right, he may well have chosen UND anyway. But I have been told by people who would know that he was not offered the same money from NDSU that he was from UND. Whether or not his mind would have changed is a different conversation, I think.

way to sidetrack another thread with this nonsense, sigh.