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Re: A new and better FBS thread
https://x.com/TBM_JY/status/1948479021739647338
The politicians are officially involved now
Regarding the NCAA, asking them to self-monitor is like asking the fox to guard the hen house. They are completely beholden to their main $$$$ source - the P2
Regarding the P2, the SEC better be careful what it wishes for ... if the two split off into a third upper tier, at some point they'll be begging for governance/regulation. Nobody wants to watch a product where the B1G wins everything all the time ...
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
https://x.com/TBM_JY/status/1948479021739647338
The politicians are officially involved now
Regarding the NCAA, asking them to self-monitor is like asking the fox to guard the hen house. They are completely beholden to their main $$$$ source - the P2
Regarding the P2, the SEC better be careful what it wishes for ... if the two split off into a third upper tier, at some point they'll be begging for governance/regulation. Nobody wants to watch a product where the B1G wins everything all the time ...
Working theory is the P2 become the College Pro/Super/elite league consisting of 35-50 schools. They would have divisions and effectively operate like the NFL does. This could take a few more years yet, but looks like where things have been headed. They had discussions already about creating a new NCAA division for that purpose.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Working theory is the P2 become the College Pro/Super/elite league consisting of 35-50 schools. They would have divisions and effectively operate like the NFL does. This could take a few more years yet, but looks like where things have been headed. They had discussions already about creating a new NCAA division for that purpose.
So if/when that happens...what becomes of the current P2 members that are obviously 'out of their league'? Could we possibly create a conference that could attract the western 1/3rd (not including west coast teams) of the B1G?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Working theory is the P2 become the College Pro/Super/elite league consisting of 35-50 schools. They would have divisions and effectively operate like the NFL does. This could take a few more years yet, but looks like where things have been headed. They had discussions already about creating a new NCAA division for that purpose.
No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it. The most credible scenario I've seen is the SEC raids the ACC in 2030 for the best remaining brands, and realignment continues, etc etc. I suspect the B12 and ACC remainders would fight such a "break off" tooth and nail
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
No offense, but I'll believe it when I see it. The most credible scenario I've seen is the SEC raids the ACC in 2030 for the best remaining brands, and realignment continues, etc etc. I suspect the B12 and ACC remainders would fight such a "break off" tooth and nail
But do they really? They won't be competitive. Perhaps they accept their station in hopes of being the new frontrunners in their new home?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Also, even if this hypothetical split occurs (top 30-35 in elite league), I don’t see the FBS gate keepers being any more amenable to FCS call-ups then they currently are. The situation remains the same, and I still really like NDSU based on brand and elite FCS status (10 titles in however many years)
People that are counting on this to somehow elevate the FCS elite to the second tier are being naïve, at best
My prediction is that when the SEC raids the ACC in 2030, the ACC will turn to the American, and the American will then raid the MWC and SBC. Navarez knows she has to stay ahead of this curve if the MWC is to remain relevant in FBS …
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Bear with me here, because I'll be rambling I'm sure...
So let's add a tier between what we currently know as FBS & FCS. To simplify this post we will refer to these three a "A", "B" & "C" series. There are currently 267 FBS & FCS programs.
Let's agree on a method of rating whether it be Sagarin, or come up with an algorithm that we can agree on. Using that method we designate which teams go to which series. Let's say 90 in "A", 100 in "B" with the balance in "C".
Every year there will be 10 potential upgrades/downgrades between "A" & "B" and 10 between "B" & "C".
The bottom 10 in each are in jeopardy of falling to the lower series and the top ten may potentially move up to the next series. What will determine these potential moves are each teams ratings average from the previous five years. Scheduling would focus primarily on rivalries and secondarily peers with similar ratings status. (so season closing games may have absolute ramifications)
I'm just making this up as I go, but there could be an annual draft of portal eligible players based on these rating as well?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Every year there will be 10 potential upgrades/downgrades between "A" & "B" and 10 between "B" & "C".
The bottom 10 in each are in jeopardy of falling to the lower series and the top ten may potentially move up to the next series.
What you are describing is Euro soccer style promotion/relegation. I have a friend who has been preaching this for CFB for a decade now.
Unfortunately I doubt it ever occurs. College football conference invitations in US are primarily driven by money, and secondary concerns like location and whether other member Presidents want to associate with a school (academic reputation, etc). On the field performance is often not a primary concern. If it were, schools like Kennesaw and Missouri St would not have been invited.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Bear with me here, because I'll be rambling I'm sure...
So let's add a tier between what we currently know as FBS & FCS. To simplify this post we will refer to these three a "A", "B" & "C" series. There are currently 267 FBS & FCS programs.
Let's agree on a method of rating whether it be Sagarin, or come up with an algorithm that we can agree on. Using that method we designate which teams go to which series. Let's say 90 in "A", 100 in "B" with the balance in "C".
Every year there will be 10 potential upgrades/downgrades between "A" & "B" and 10 between "B" & "C".
The bottom 10 in each are in jeopardy of falling to the lower series and the top ten may potentially move up to the next series. What will determine these potential moves are each teams ratings average from the previous five years. Scheduling would focus primarily on rivalries and secondarily peers with similar ratings status. (so season closing games may have absolute ramifications)
I'm just making this up as I go, but there could be an annual draft of portal eligible players based on these rating as well?
I used to think promotion/relegation would be fun but there is no incentive to do it and it doesn't really make sense to do it anyway.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
ByeSonBusiness
I used to think promotion/relegation would be fun but there is no incentive to do it and it doesn't really make sense to do it anyway.
Picture this...Final weekend of regular season, Gophurs @ Camp Randall. On the line? Winner likely stays in the "A" series and the loser... well the loser is banished to "B" series for the following season. That's a game where every man fights like he's the 3rd monkey on the ramp of the Ark and it's starting to pour down rain.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Picture this...Final weekend of regular season, Gophurs @ Camp Randall. On the line? Winner likely stays in the "A" series and the loser... well the loser is banished to "B" series for the following season. That's a game where every man fights like he's the 3rd monkey on the ramp of the Ark and it's starting to pour down rain.
While it would be intriguing for fans, I don't see a world where any college in the top tier is going to support the possibility of being relegated. Way too much money on the line.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
abc123
While it would be intriguing for fans, I don't see a world where any college in the top tier is going to support the possibility of being relegated. Way too much money on the line.
Totally agree. Illustrates why the few shouldn't dictate the path for all.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Totally agree. Illustrates why the few shouldn't dictate the path for all.
Its the golden rule: those who have the gold make the rules.
Not sure there is a way to fix this. Big media money has changed college sports, and somewhat corrupted it. As the wealthy P2 conferences get increasingly more money, this has all snowballed, and now they basically dictate terms to everyone else. Decades ago there was more parity, at least among the P5.
If the P2 does in fact grow to 40-50 members, and then split off taking most of the money with them, that might allow for a reset with everyone else remaining. That currently looks like the plan, and wheels are already in motion for this.
The new CFP contract now basically puts P2 in charge of all future CFP changes ...
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
abc123
While it would be intriguing for fans, I don't see a world where any college in the top tier is going to support the possibility of being relegated. Way too much money on the line.
If you look over the last 10 to 15 years the separation is becoming more noticeable. Especially when the big got autonomy.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Who here believes that Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Minnesoda, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich St, Northwestern, Illinois & Nebraska are all still in the Big Ten in five years?
If you don't see them turning on the weak among them I will build a bridge & sell it to you.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Who here believes that Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Minnesoda, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich St, Northwestern, Illinois & Nebraska are all still in the Big Ten in five years?
If you don't see them turning on the weak among them I will build a bridge & sell it to you.
If they're going to call it the Big Ten it should have ten teams.
I'm considering a lawsuit for false advertising.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin
If they're going to call it the Big Ten it should have ten teams.
I'm considering a lawsuit for false advertising.
That's a whole 'nother rant.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Working theory is the P2 become the College Pro/Super/elite league consisting of 35-50 schools. They would have divisions and effectively operate like the NFL does. This could take a few more years yet, but looks like where things have been headed. They had discussions already about creating a new NCAA division for that purpose.
I wish they'd just go ahead and do this already before they completely ruin the rest of it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Who here believes that Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Minnesoda, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich St, Northwestern, Illinois & Nebraska are all still in the Big Ten in five years?
If you don't see them turning on the weak among them I will build a bridge & sell it to you.
Those teams will all be there yes. Not sure why you'd think they are going anywhere. There may be some buyers remorse re: Rutgers...maybe Maryland. But no one is going to leave the B1G.
This same theory pops up with European soccer once on awhile when they discuss creating a super league with the biggest brands across the continent. It doesn't really work because the big clubs need their domestic lessers far more than they are willing to admit.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Rutgers and Maryland were added primarily for their television media markets. Suspect the same is true for others like Minnesota and Northwestern as well.
B1G media payout got boosted significantly with the addition of Rutgers. Has as much to do with carriage rights, and advertising as it does actual viewership boost. I don't think many of these schools will be booted. It all rotates around what maximizes media payout.
The system is a bit broken in that regard, but for the larger (P4) conferences, simply being able to state they have a school located within a specific market DMA can significantly change the media payout for all members. This is what made UCLA attractive to P2/4, for instance, but not Washington St. For the smaller G6 conferences, they tend to focus on regional rivalries and reducing travel costs. That is largely what motivated SBC to add Louisiana Tech, even though they have another member in the same region/market.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Rutgers and Maryland were added primarily for their television media markets. Suspect the same is true for others like Minnesota and Northwestern as well.
B1G media payout got boosted significantly with the addition of Rutgers. Has as much to do with carriage rights, and advertising as it does actual viewership boost. I don't think many of these schools will be booted. It all rotates around what maximizes media payout.
The system is a bit broken in that regard, but for the larger (P4) conferences, simply being able to state they have a school located within a specific market DMA can significantly change the media payout for all members. This is what made UCLA attractive to P2/4, for instance, but not Washington St. For the smaller G6 conferences, they tend to focus on regional rivalries and reducing travel costs. That is largely what motivated SBC to add Louisiana Tech, even though they have another member in the same region/market.
Minnesota and Northwestern were added YEARS ago before TV was a thing. But youre on the money about about MA and Rutgers. Its also about footprint.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Both Minnesota and Northwestern are founding members of the B10, in 1896.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cobbison
Both Minnesota and Northwestern are founding members of the B10, in 1896.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hadn't looked at that aspect, but makes it even less likely they are ever booted.
Their location/market DMAs also strengthen that. It won't matter if they have 3-9, 4-8 type seasons for 5 years really. And at 0.500 or above they are a lock to stay.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cobbison
Both Minnesota and Northwestern are founding members of the B10, in 1896.
Sent from my BagPhone using Tapatalk
Some folks didn't even have cable at the time.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Some folks didn't even have cable at the time.
Right, but overall your "build a bridge" bet might not pan out.
Those in P2 will likely remain so, regardless of on field performance. Other factors matter more.
We like to think college football should be a meritocracy, and it simply isn't.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
56BISON73
Minnesota and Northwestern were added YEARS ago before TV was a thing. But youre on the money about about MA and Rutgers. Its also about footprint.
Even ignoring history and academics, the money the B1G would lose by kicking out half the conference is nuts lol.
Something tells me our boy just looked at last year's standings or something. He included several core members with generally pretty good football programs.
You don't add or remove teams because they aren't very good at football today.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
We like to think college football should be a meritocracy, and it simply isn't.
You're correct, I easily slip into merit based mentality.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Some folks didn't even have cable at the time.
My dad grew up in North Dakota and had never seen a football game until his Army unit did something at the Cotton Bowl back in the 1950s.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NI4NI
Who here believes that Rutgers, Maryland, Purdue, Minnesoda, Wisconsin, Iowa, Mich St, Northwestern, Illinois & Nebraska are all still in the Big Ten in five years?
If you don't see them turning on the weak among them I will build a bridge & sell it to you.
Reminder that the academic Big Ten dwarfs the athletic Big Ten.
Wisconsin and Iowa are arguably Top-5 Big Ten programs over the last 25 years. The 'weak' schools you must have picked out of a hat combine for almost as many national titles as NDSU, which you may have heard is quite a few.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
skunkapekiller
Iowa??? top 5???
nope
For all sports, Google's AI has Iowa, Northwestern, and Wisconsin in the second tier below Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hammerhead
For all sports, Google's AI has Iowa, Northwestern, and Wisconsin in the second tier below Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State.
I'd agree.
I'm a Badgers fan and the last five years has been like rinsing your eyes in owl piss.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Mack Brown publicly calling for the FBS split. There are many others, especially in P2 that want it also.
https://www.on3.com/news/mack-brown-...-championship/
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
It won't do us any good. If anything it will just confirm that we are in the 3rd division and not going anywhere.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
I like this if they flat out eliminate FCS and make 2 divisions, Big schools and everyone else. Let mediocre FCS drop down to D2.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HerdBot
I like this if they flat out eliminate FCS and make 2 divisions, Big schools and everyone else. Let mediocre FCS drop down to D2.
FCS will remain and there will be 3 divisions imo. This is what has been proposed previously and is least disruptive to existing schools.
I think the split/reorg could be a bit messy though, and permit some reshuffling at that time. Could see MVFC joining the 2nd division. Patriot, SoCon, others mostly will stay FCS.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
FCS will remain and there will be 3 divisions imo.
I think the split/reorg could be a bit messy though, and permit some reshuffling at that time. Could see MVFC joining the 2nd division. Patriot, SoCon, others mostly will stay FCS.
These are my thoughts as well. Could simply be 'wishful thinking', hopefully we will find out sooner rather than later.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
I think very few D1 schools are going to voluntarily drop down to D2 unless they're forced to by new requirements to remain D1. The more likely scenario is that football separates into 3 subdivisions with the schools that probably should be D2 (or not have a football program) settling into the 3rd tier that runs their football programs primarily for cost containment.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
And yet 100% of FBS (+ 1 FCS) just voted to give the P4 2/3 of the power, if I’m reading this correctly
https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Why split when it comes this easy? Lol
Much more likely that NDSU is a FB-only member of the MWC than a 'basketball conference' (MVFC) moves up to the 2nd level, imho
The mechanics of how the p4 would 'split' are remarkably messy and could take a decade
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
And yet 100% of FBS (+ 1 FCS) just voted to give the P4 2/3 of the power, if I’m reading this correctly
https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1...7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Why split when it comes this easy? Lol
Much more likely that NDSU is a FB-only member of the MWC than a 'basketball conference' (MVFC) moves up to the 2nd level, imho
The mechanics of how the p4 would 'split' are remarkably messy and could take a decade
P2/4 will now fully control both NCAA/FBS governance and future of CFP, presuming this passes as expected on Aug 5 by full D1 committee. It feels foolish, but perhaps arms have been twisted.
Will make it easier for them to set rules that kick out the lower level scruff or just separate it entirely. The earlier proposal was to segment existing FBS into two distinct NCAA divisions/levels. P4 could now theoretically vote this into place when they choose to do so.
Believe the others have been ceding control on the hopes that if they don’t push back they will be allowed to remain. P2 will continue to build a wall between themselves and everyone else, regardless of whether it is a soft/virtual financial wall or a hard cut. All signs point to a split within a few years.
