A new and better FBS thread

A big question is whether or not there would be opportunities to Play G4 (G2?) teams in non-conference games. I can see how teams might want to bump up their strength of schedule and not do payout games for the G5/G6 teams.

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Originally Posted by Hammerhead

A big question is whether or not there would be opportunities to Play G4 (G2?) teams in non-conference games. I can see how teams might want to bump up their strength of schedule and not do payout games for the G5/G6 teams.

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You mean "P" not "G", right? The way things are headed, I doubt P2 will be playing FCS schools much longer. G6 will fill that role in the future, imo

But to cite NIL and the portal as reasons for NDSU to stay FCS makes no sense. In the best of all possible universes, the G6/5/4 would merge with the top of FCS, but this will never happen. Much more likely is the very top 40 make a new branch of D1, still under the NCAA skirt hoops, to further distance from the "G" brand (forget about FCS lol). At that point the FBS left-behinds just adopt their own playoff system and FCS is essentially D2 for all practical purposes

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

You mean "P" not "G", right? The way things are headed, I doubt P2 will be playing FCS schools much longer. G6 will fill that role in the future, imo

But to cite NIL and the portal as reasons for NDSU to stay FCS makes no sense. In the best of all possible universes, the G6/5/4 would merge with the top of FCS, but this will never happen. Much more likely is the very top 40 make a new branch of D1, still under the NCAA skirt hoops, to further distance from the "G" brand (forget about FCS lol). At that point the FBS left-behinds just adopt their own playoff system and FCS is essentially D2 for all practical purposes

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FCS is already essentially D2. The division's purpose is for division 1 schools who can't/won't play the FBS game but want to have a football program.

Utah Valley is going to the Big West. WAC is on life support with 5 teams. The only options for most teams is the Asun but they don't sponsor football. The United is their shared football conference

wait, WAC is a thing? i thought that was a meme

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

Agree on the ML take. His most recent comments are much more clear that NDSU wants to go FBS.


*Sent from my iPhone where autocorrect is definitely not my friend*

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imo ML has wanted to go FBS for a lot longer than most realize.

He just was concerned about expressing that too strongly when there were no openings to be had. Now it looks like glimmers of hope if the cards fall right with MWC, either now or in a few years.

I don't think it will be a cure all, but we probably land with some collection of G? schools at some point. The shifts at top of FBS are causing downward ripples. It may look a whole lot like FCS when all is said and done if P2 continue to grow the gap between themselves and everyone else.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

imo ML has wanted to go FBS for a lot longer than most realize.

He just was concerned about expressing that too strongly when there were no openings to be had. Now it looks like glimmers of hope if the cards fall right with MWC, either now or in a few years.

I don't think it will be a cure all, but we probably land with some collection of G? schools at some point. The shifts at top of FBS are causing downward ripples. It may look a whole lot like FCS when all is said and done if P2 continue to grow the gap between themselves and everyone else.

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much better to be in FBS when the SEC breaks off than after.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

imo ML has wanted to go FBS for a lot longer than most realize.

He just was concerned about expressing that too strongly when there were no openings to be had. Now it looks like glimmers of hope if the cards fall right with MWC, either now or in a few years.

I don't think it will be a cure all, but we probably land with some collection of G? schools at some point. The shifts at top of FBS are causing downward ripples. It may look a whole lot like FCS when all is said and done if P2 continue to grow the gap between themselves and everyone else.

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Matt Larsen may want to go FBS but IMO he's made zero effort to get anything done. When CUSA was desperate to find warm bodies he couldn't even be bothered. I doubt he does anything with MWC either. That would require work and ML doesn't do that. All we ever hear is "we're waiting for an opportunity". Yeah, right.

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Originally Posted by Kevin

wait, WAC is a thing? i thought that was a meme

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Yo that shit is WAC

Chris Vannini
@ChrisVannini
·22h

The eight Pac-12 schools have all signed their Grant of Rights and are expected to finish up the TV deal soon, sources tell
@TheAthletic
. (7 FB + Gonzaga)

Discussions with prospective 8th FB members are ongoing now that TV $ specifics are mostly hammered out.

8th member looks 90% likely to be Texas St. They are known to be in deep discussions. Long shot is a MWC team (UNLV?) or someone like NMSU/UTEP.

They would like to grab a couple AAC teams like Memphis/USF or maybe even UNT as well, but seems unlikely to happen quick as #8 due to exit fees.

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

Matt Larsen may want to go FBS but IMO he's made zero effort to get anything done. When CUSA was desperate to find warm bodies he couldn't even be bothered. I doubt he does anything with MWC either. That would require work and ML doesn't do that. All we ever hear is "we're waiting for an opportunity". Yeah, right.

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You know this how? Please give facts not unfounded speculation.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

You know this how? Please give facts not unfounded speculation.

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I mean, all he has to do is check out the Big Mountain podcasts, which make it quite obvious that NDSU is pursuing this

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

Matt Larsen may want to go FBS but IMO he's made zero effort to get anything done. When CUSA was desperate to find warm bodies he couldn't even be bothered. I doubt he does anything with MWC either. That would require work and ML doesn't do that. All we ever hear is "we're waiting for an opportunity". Yeah, right.

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Well if we get an invite to the Mountain West, it sure would suck being in Conference USA with a buy out. Matt could be a bit more public about it but much of the process likely happens behind the scenes

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Well if we get an invite to the Mountain West, it sure would suck being in Conference USA with a buy out. Matt could be a bit more public about it but much of the process likely happens behind the scenes

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All we ever hear from Larsen are words, no action. It's easy to say we want to go FBS. Let's see some results. Until then I'm skeptical

Looking very likely Sacramento St waiver request to go FBS without conference invite will be denied.
NCAA Football Oversight committee has recommended against it. This follows their recent pattern of denying other transition waivers.

https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1...3-page-17.html

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

All we ever hear from Larsen are words, no action. It's easy to say we want to go FBS. Let's see some results. Until then I'm skeptical

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And what results are you looking for?

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

All we ever hear from Larsen are words, no action. It's easy to say we want to go FBS. Let's see some results. Until then I'm skeptical

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Many parts of how this operates are not in ML or NDSU hands.

Yes, we need to be willing to move (and it's clear we are). But there also has to be an opening/opportunity in a conference that wants to add us. Geography works against us on this outside of MW.

I've been convinced for a while that when we do join FBS, it will be as part of MW. The other path I see is if the P2 separate, and that reshuffle allows us or the entire MVFC to move up a division.

I think we will get there, but it could be a few more years for this to all work out.

even the MW is a long long ways away....the center of the country needs another FBS conf and it needs it bad...some pres/ad needs to call up montana and msu and say "u happy playing dixie state?"

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Originally Posted by skunkapekiller

even the MW is a long long ways away....the center of the country needs another FBS conf and it needs it bad...some pres/ad needs to call up montana and msu and say "u happy playing dixie state?"

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Why does the central US need another FBS conference?

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Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness

Why does the central US need another FBS conference?

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Maybe we could poach some Big Ten teams? Yeah I know that's silly talk, but none of them west of Lake Michigan will ever be a threat to win the B1G again.

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Originally Posted by NI4NI

Maybe we could poach some Big Ten teams? Yeah I know that's silly talk, but none of them west of Lake Michigan will ever be a threat to win the B1G again.

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Oregon won the big ten this year!

Lol I know what you mean

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Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness

Oregon won the big ten this year!

Lol I know what you mean

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Thanks. I was referencing Badgers, Wildcats, Hawkeyes, gophurs & Huskers. I should have said that no previous B1G West team will ever win the conference moving forward, but our Bison could play with those teams week in week out.

Well, for those of you wanting Matt Larsen to put NDSU's pursuit of the FBS in plain public view you'll have a use case in Sacramento St to see how that would work out. Their President and AD have been very vocal publicly that they want to move to the FBS bloviating about $50M NIL pools and a $500M new stadium but no conference has taken the bait (the MWC probably isn't interested since they just added UC Davis, which is within 20 miles of Sacramento, and the PAC probably views Sac St as beneath them).

They applied for a waiver from the NCAA to move to the FBS without a conference invite a la Liberty but the oversight committee has recently recommended that this waiver be denied. Now, according to Matt Brown, they're set to leave the Big Sky and join the Big West in all non-football sports and move their football program to FCS independent status until their FBS aspirations come true. Their President is out there making (and quickly deleting) comments about how they'd put up 50 points on South Dakota (link) after calling the FCS JV level football over the course of the last few months.

It's tough to say which approach is right - the one where you're very tight-lipped about FBS realignment talks like Larsen and NDSU have been or the one where you're very open about it like Sac St has been. The right approach is probably in the middle but I don't think the Sac St approach will lead to the FBS any more quickly than the NDSU approach is.

EDIT: In a related note NDSU may not be the most hated program amongst the FCS community anymore...

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Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness

Why does the central US need another FBS conference?

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tv!...fcs people change the channel...fbs....people will watch

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Originally Posted by Professor Chaos

Well, for those of you wanting Matt Larsen to put NDSU's pursuit of the FBS in plain public view you'll have a use case in Sacramento St to see how that would work out. Their President and AD have been very vocal publicly that they want to move to the FBS bloviating about $50M NIL pools and a $500M new stadium but no conference has taken the bait (the MWC probably isn't interested since they just added UC Davis, which is within 20 miles of Sacramento, and the PAC probably views Sac St as beneath them).

They applied for a waiver from the NCAA to move to the FBS without a conference invite a la Liberty but the oversight committee has recently recommended that this waiver be denied. Now, according to Matt Brown, they're set to leave the Big Sky and join the Big West in all non-football sports and move their football program to FCS independent status until their FBS aspirations come true. Their President is out there making (and quickly deleting) comments about how they'd put up 50 points on South Dakota (link) after calling the FCS JV level football over the course of the last few months.

It's tough to say which approach is right - the one where you're very tight-lipped about FBS realignment talks like Larsen and NDSU have been or the one where you're very open about it like Sac St has been. The right approach is probably in the middle but I don't think the Sac St approach will lead to the FBS any more quickly than the NDSU approach is.

EDIT: In a related note NDSU may not be the most hated program amongst the FCS community anymore...

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Well I can tell you that Matt Larsen's approach isn't working and it's just pissing people off. I've got zero interest in donating until we see some results. All Larsen appears to be doing is giving lip service and saying we want to FBS and we all know how that's working out.

If you actually read and listen to the reporting, ML is pissed off because NDSU's collective dwarfs anything that our peers have, and that advantage would be blunted through opting in. However, I have no doubt he will do what it takes to go FBS. Please forgive me for being an optimist lol

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

Well I can tell you that Matt Larsen's approach isn't working and it's just pissing people off. I've got zero interest in donating until we see some results. All Larsen appears to be doing is giving lip service and saying we want to FBS and we all know how that's working out.

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I’ve been on the record numerous times recently as saying that NDSU should be bold and go independent, rather than die a slow death in FCS. I now think that is wrong, and Sac St is a good learning tool as to why.

An FBS invite is required to go FBS. That is what we have learned. We know that in the past when asked directly, Matt says that he has not talked directly with FBS conferences about getting an invite. I think this is probably smart to protect our standing with our current conference. Other reports from solid local reporting has indicated that “NDSU” HAS BEEN in contact with FBS conferences, so it’s likely Matt is playing both sides here and doing what he thinks is right for NDSU and by his current commitment to the MVFC.

Matt is now being more open publicly about being ready when the time comes, which likely has to do with all the shuffling and openness about this in general being the norm.

While I think there are plenty of other reasons to be critical of Larsen, this is not one of them. Can you name a specific different thing you think he should do?

If not, can you admit which family members it was that Matt fucked over to cause this clear vendetta you have against him?

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

Well I can tell you that Matt Larsen's approach isn't working and it's just pissing people off. I've got zero interest in donating until we see some results. All Larsen appears to be doing is giving lip service and saying we want to FBS and we all know how that's working out.

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So in fact you have no factual basis for your uninformed opinion except for the fact that we arent FBS at this juncture.

I think we should wait until we win our 10th FCS title, then pursue FBS. Oh, snap!

The Sac State approach does work to garner some sympathy.

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Originally Posted by Herd It Here

The Sac State approach does work to garner some sympathy.

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Unsure if it does or not.

NCAA committee basically said you need a conference invite and they won’t make exceptions. Liberty is the one counter example, but they referenced that 2017 decision being different circumstances (implies the “religious discrimination" claims that were made). Liberty was told by conferences they wouldn’t be considered due to their beliefs and policies. Fallwell went to press crying foul over that at the time, and saying the NCAA was keeping them out due to Christian teaching/beliefs. His comments hit some major publications.

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The committee noted a conference invitation is of paramount importance for entering into the reclassification process because the invitation signals an institution’s readiness to enter the process.

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In current environment, I just don’t think there is a path without a FBS conf invite. Committe has also said no to other recent transition waiver requests.

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Originally Posted by heffray

I’ve been on the record numerous times recently as saying that NDSU should be bold and go independent, rather than die a slow death in FCS. I now think that is wrong, and Sac St is a good learning tool as to why.

An FBS invite is required to go FBS. That is what we have learned. We know that in the past when asked directly, Matt says that he has not talked directly with FBS conferences about getting an invite. I think this is probably smart to protect our standing with our current conference. Other reports from solid local reporting has indicated that “NDSU” HAS BEEN in contact with FBS conferences, so it’s likely Matt is playing both sides here and doing what he thinks is right for NDSU and by his current commitment to the MVFC.

Matt is now being more open publicly about being ready when the time comes, which likely has to do with all the shuffling and openness about this in general being the norm.

While I think there are plenty of other reasons to be critical of Larsen, this is not one of them. Can you name a specific different thing you think he should do?

If not, can you admit which family members it was that Matt fucked over to cause this clear vendetta you have against him?

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I'd like to know what Matt has done to get us even one inch closer to going FBS? Looks like he should have pursued the CUSA possibility when we had the chance. Instead Larsen acted like CUSA was beneath us.

And I have no idea what PL is spouting about. He's on ignore.

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Originally Posted by NDSU1980

I'd like to know what Matt has done to get us even one inch closer to going FBS? Looks like he should have pursued the CUSA possibility when we had the chance. Instead Larsen acted like CUSA was beneath us.

And I have no idea what PL is spouting about. He's on ignore.

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I know some believe otherwise, but I don't think CUSA was ever seriously considering schools in our region.

They have a backfill shortlist, and it consists of schools in the southeast and Texas. Tarleton St is considered to have the inside track there if an opening develops, and others nearby like EKU, SFA are also shortlisted.

I never expected a P5 invite, but the fact that no mid level or cellar dweller conference has made the Bison an offer after the the accolades they've stacked up is beyond comprehension. Hell, you'd think the remaining FCS schools would pool their resources and bribe a conference to take us out of FCS.
I have a friend who is a JMU fan and he can't believe they went FBS before NDSU.

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Originally Posted by NI4NI

I have a friend who is a JMU fan and he can't believe they went FBS before NDSU.

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The sad truth is FBS invites often have little to do with on the field performance.

Sometimes a large fanbase or being in a major metro can help. But really for a school like JMU they just happened to be in a good location for SBC near other schools like App St.

Montana once upon a time had a FBS invite, to either MWC or its predecessor. As far as I know, they never got a whiff from any other conferences, and also have a strong history of success.

Montana actually had a WAC invite before that conference imploded:
https://www.havredailynews.com/story...bs/481114.html

Back in the 2008-2010 timeframe, there was a lot of buzz and debate about Montana moving up on eGriz board. Many of their discussions looked similar to ours, down to Sagarin ratings, etc.

https://egriz.com/threads/if-um-move...the-wac.43370/

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

The sad truth is FBS invites often have little to do with on the field performance.

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I get that. But there's "on field performance" and then there's 66% of the FCS Natties in the last 15 years. Someone somewhere in power has to step up and say..."No, these guys don't belong in FCS. One of the FBS conferences MUST take them". This is beyond ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

The sad truth is FBS invites often have little to do with on the field performance.

Sometimes a large fanbase or being in a major metro can help. But really for a school like JMU they just happened to be in a good location for SBC near other schools like App St.

Montana once upon a time had a FBS invite, to either MWC or its predecessor. As far as I know, they never got a whiff from any other conferences, and also have a strong history of success.

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Its all about what does the university bring to the table. Prestige, $$$$$$$$$$$, foot print etc etc. JUst look at Maryland and Rutgers in the Big Ten.

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Originally Posted by NI4NI

I never expected a P5 invite, but the fact that no mid level or cellar dweller conference has made the Bison an offer after the the accolades they've stacked up is beyond comprehension. Hell, you'd think the remaining FCS schools would pool their resources and bribe a conference to take us out of FCS.
I have a friend who is a JMU fan and he can't believe they went FBS before NDSU.

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I mean we are only the most successful football program of all time in terms of national championships and top 20 in all time wins and winning %

Big TV ratings and a national brand don't matter either. Top 5 attendance. Nope.

Oh but media market. Do they realize the #1 alumni base is in Minneapolis and we draw 35k fans there? We even have radio affiliates in Minneapolis

So hey let's go get Misery State and Kennesaw. They check all the boxes. That will make the conference irrelevant.

I honestly think they fear us. They won't play us either

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Originally Posted by NI4NI

I get that. But there's "on field performance" and then there's 66% of the FCS Natties in the last 15 years. Someone somewhere in power has to step up and say..."No, these guys don't belong in FCS. One of the FBS conferences MUST take them". This is beyond ridiculous.

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Wish things worked that way. Each conference is relatively independent though and governed by their members. The most powerful/influential conferences are B1G and SEC, and they would rather kick teams/conferences out than grow the fbs membership.

It is more likely we join via that backdoor of P2 leaving or pushing others down a tier, than it is them clamoring for us to join.