It'd probs make money tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R
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It'd probs make money tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R
Nobody cares about hockey while a team of kids that haven't enrolled in college yet (Fargo Force) outdraw Bison Basketball 4 to 1. Yeah I have to respectively disagree with that statement :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Fargo is a hockey town, hosts squirt international, has some of the highest participation rates in the country and has elite level facilities for youth hockey
We have no chance to ever be competitive in basketball again nor does anyone in the summit league. The region is flush with talent. Hockey would be successful within 5 years
We would pack Scheels Arena day 1 until we can build our own arena and it wouldn't take away from football. Different audience that is untapped. If we start hockey I bet wr could even get public support for a new duel purpose hockey/basketball arena. Maybe even attached to the Fargodome
No to hockey. ND is already spread too thin as a state in this new D1 era, and susie has to compete with the B1G now, plus the portal. Not going super great in case you haven’t been paying attention (which would be ironic since you’re pushing D1 Bison hockey)
Like 92 says, use the money to elevate men’s BB and try to climb. I think you underestimate the loyalty of the state to the UND hockey brand, and there is no external value in trying to create a 2nd whole new brand to compete with it internally (although admittedly, it is a better brand)
It would be an epic fail by the state, the NDUS, and NDSU for Bison FB to not be at the 2nd level if there’s a split, so no reason to go there now. Let's see what happens
The solution is out there. With the MWC still stiff arming the PAC-2 for a PAC-12 revival...Oregon St. and Wash St. should start the next G5 Conference.
Invite:
Montana
Montana St.
SDSU
NDSU
Wyoming (buyout)
Boise St. (buyout)
UND
USD
Gives you solid state-sponsored schools with a full slate of athletics. Conference would be immediately competitive with other G5 conference for football and hoops bids. Decent travel (considering other conference footprints). Solid war chest from PAC-12 conference.
Love the idea of being in a real conference for all sports!Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
What would be NDSU buyout expenses to exit MVFC, Summit & Big 12?
WSU and OSU are staying independent rather than admit they've fallen to the G5 ranks. There's no way they're going to start slumming(in their eyes) with a bunch of FCS call ups.Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
There's no PAC-12 warchest either. They're nearly broke with some big expenses coming.
Frankly, do WasSU and OrSU look more like:
- USC and UCLA, or
- ColoSt and Nevada
The PAC12 dissolution exposed what WasSU and OrSU really are: G5s.
Agree with you that they would see this as a "step down"...unfortunately. I don't see a path forward for them unless they submit to the MWC entirely. This would give them autonomy and (I would assume, some measure of control). At some point, common sense needs to re-enter the conversation.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
In college sports? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BisonJD
Wait. You're serious?
Money has made common sense no longer a viable option.
When CUSA was scrambling for members, everyone was on their shortlist. We absolutely could have waltzed in and somewhat dictated terms. But we were too good for CUSA. So the lifeboats filled up while we had a drink in Titanic's lounge.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Do we really know that? I would like to think that is true, but NDSU was way out of their footprint....Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
When they were scrambling for survival, their footprint became the continental United States. We've always had a geography problem. That was the one instance in which our potential membership plus our geography was less problematic for a conference than no membership at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
So in other words, it must be true because you want it to be true, despite our AD(who is subject to open records laws) repeatedly saying otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
Think what you want if it comforts you in being on the wrong side of the FBS issue. Open records laws don't govern hedging or equivocating to journalists. Anyone can read the old news stories and posts. Pretty clear we rebuffed CUSA. In fact, I remember ML on 1660 saying that CUSA was not a good fit for NDSU. You're certainly not going to get a formal invite when that's your message. At a minimum, back channel queries were made as to NDSU's potential interest and we indicated we weren't interested. The administration has forever been wedded to wait-and-see. NDSU...the team that beat #13 Iowa in their house and has had the most dominant FCS program in history...has sat with its thumb up its ass while the FBS world has evolved without them. We've done NOTHING. We've signaled almost NOTHING, and even then only recently. NDSU should be embarrassed. We held out for the supermodel. We remain single while Missouri State is getting married to a decent, librarian-cute gal with a future.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Exactly, we were never on the shortlist, which has been somewhat leaked various places. Missouri St has been floating out there for a few months for people that know where to look. They had conversations with SBC as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Sure, CUSA may have put out feelers to see what FCS teams were in play, but their objectives are to build a Southeast regional conference somewhat mirroring the SBC. They will continue to add within and adjacent to that footprint.
ML is exactly right on what’s coming down the pike as well. G5 will have an official top 25 soon, and they are working on creating a separate playoff.
I love all the speculation that if/when something happens that the G5 will just allow more conferences/schools to join. The talk of the G5 and the "top" FCS joining together is speculative and hopeful at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
The reality is that the G5 doesn't have to do shit and could easily say no more conferences and limit the number of teams to join. NDSU could be on the outside looking in if/when that happens. It would be better to make a move independent to ensure FBS than wait for the perfect situation to come about and be potentially locked out in the future.
This 100% is the conundrum and what has me personally worried. I challenged Matt Zimmer on this on Twitter, and he basically is "not concerned." I was thinking, well, you sure as hell should be, but he is a journalist and probably not wanting to ruffle feathers are SDSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
Hate to say it, but I am fading this way as well. If we aren't going to support and fund hoops at a mid major level, then we should at least take another look at Hockey.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerdBot
If this were to happen, I propose that we cut football funding by millions and pump it into basketball. By not finding a way to get to the 2nd tier of football, it will effectively destroy the sport at NDSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
It doesn't have to be a perfect situation to move FBS but it has to be something less than an awful situation to make it worthwhile IMO. Moving all sports to CUSA would be a terrible decision for the athletic department as a whole. Sending baseball, softball, volleyball, etc from New Mexico to Florida to Delaware and many places in between for conference games is not going to work. What's good for the football program isn't necessarily good for the entire athletic department. CUSA, even with Missouri St (now the closest CUSA school to NDSU at 770 miles away), is still not a good option for any sport other than football and a football only invite isn't happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
No, they can't. That's a rock solid anti-trust violation and isn't a barrier at all. A lot of people are saying we need to move now or be locked out forever. I don't believe that for a second. That's *literally* illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
Remember that the NCAA says you can't join FBS without an invite, but Liberty did it anyway. NCAA denied the UAC's request to be a football conference, but they did it anyway and were given an AQ. NCAA says you have to sponsor basketball to be a conference, but the PAC-12 isn't and is still collecting NCAAT credits.(grace period doesn't apply to this unlike number of members, before anyone says something)
There's a difference between patience and stagnation. It's very clear that in the next 2-5 years there's going to be a major shakeup when the courts mandate pay for play. I suspect several dozen low end programs will drop football, maybe out of D1 completely. That'll force massive realignment. The Dakotas, Montanas, Idaho will be on the right side of that, much of their existing conferences won't. There's some ambitious up and comers in the WAC too. I'm willing to wait a few years to see if that happens vs burning bridges to join a crappy southern conference immediately.
If the state is hanging its FBS hopes on a potential lawsuit, then we are in serious trouble indeed
But hey, the 1660 guys don't seem too worried so why should I be? ... and they keep bringing up just 4 schools - NDSU, SDSU, UM, MSU
We'll see what happens, but there is tremendous pressure not to blow this, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they won't
Laramie WY is 800 miles away and way more remote than anything in CUSA, but me personally would rather be in the MWC, than go to the east coast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Chaos
those 4 are the only schools left in FCS that really support the programs also which is sad. Idaho maybe....but once big slob leaves anything can happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Agree. The Great West was far from perfect but look how thst worked out for us. In retrospect, the Great West teams weren't even that good. Northern Colorado, Davis and Poly are very meh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Chaos
But without those games we dont get epic games like Sam Houston in the Fargodome
RIGHT!!! Those 2 know their shit!!! PURPQuote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Well, they're certainly closer to the truth than you areQuote:
Originally Posted by BISONBRI53
lol
Are they? Is Andy really going to be told or have inside info on us moving up? He is an Insider I guess....Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
Liberty was a very unique case.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
They applied for a waiver, after going to major media publications threatening a lawsuit on religious discrimination grounds. The backstory is that a few FBS conferences with openings directly told them they wouldn't be considered due to their religion/politics. If they had evidence of that, it was a pretty strong hand to play. The NCAA granted them a waiver, and it is the only FBS waiver I can ever remember being granted in the past 20 or so years.
JMU applied for a FBS postseason/playoff waiver last year and was denied. They slipped into a bowl game due to lack of enough eligible teams, but were not considered for the CFP or NY6. They threatened a lawsuit, then backed down. They were officially ineligible due to transition rules, and did not win their appeal.
All of this to say a legal challenge is a crapshoot at best. It might work, but there really isn't a strong precedent to our situation, or to anyone trying to form a new FBS conference without following the established rules.
And, winning against the NCAA wouldn't be enough. The CFP, which is what really matters, is a separate corporation formed directly between the conferences and media companies. It's why basically all FBS teams have now joined a conference. Trying to force your way into the CFP agreement would be a second battle, and likely even tougher than being declared FBS by NCAA. Notre Dame is the ONLY independent team that contractually has access to the CFP, and they are an ACC affiliate.
Yep. Unless we're Power 5, the rest is irrelevant. No interest in playing in a beefed up MVFC at the G5 level. It will still have teams like Murray State, Indiana State, South Dakota and teams with turrible stadiums and fan bases.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
And yet, every school you mentioned got what they wanted despite NCAA bylaws. There absolutely is no deadline that we'll be locked out forever. A new conference isn't simple, but we've done it before. Since it's clear a G5 invite isn't coming this is very likely our only path to FBS. Are you pro FBS unless it's difficult?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Again, on 1660 today they fielded this very question - 'why can't we just make a new conference?'Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
It was soundly and immediately dismissed as impossible, so it doesn't sound like NDSU sees this as a viable option, at the same time that they seem confident we'll move up. Go figure ...
Is there a path through pairing with SDSU and leveraging our mutual successful histories?
13 championship game appearances in the past 13 seasons. (11 championships)
I cannot understand why a conference would not want us? Sure it's threat to the conference bottom feeders, but winners in life don't view things in that way.
This should be an easy sell. I don't get it.
Because the quality of the football program doesn't matter at least not as much as other things. Missouri St has a shit football program but they're a better fit for CUSA not only due to fitting more into the conference's geographic footprint but they have a lot more people in the general area to help drive up media contracts and give CUSA schools visibility to more prospective students and athletes in that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by NI4NI
Get ready because the next school that'll make the FBS jump before NDSU could very well be Tarleton St who wasn't even D1 until a few years ago but they'll again be a better fit with CUSA than NDSU for the same reasons Missouri St is.
I'm just saying the best path in is to join MWC or MAC. We should be lobbying the hell out of them, and it does sound like those conversations have been happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
If someday the doors actually lock, then sure, try whatever we have the funds and support to do. Threatening a lawsuit is easy, but wins you no friends. Actually winning a lawsuit is difficult and expensive. Your statement they all got what they wanted is a bit of a stretch. Liberty was stuck in independent status a very long time, and was losing millions upon millions of dollars buying home games until they finally got a conference invite. JMU didn't get considered for the NY6, and by a lot of metrics should have been in. And nobody else in recent history has been able to join FBS outside a conference invite. It's a last resort path, and not one that has any level of certainty.
It's not a rational gamble until all other avenues have been fully exhausted.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
There would be huge expenditures, with a low probability of success. The system is aligned against it.
I'm not sure CUSA will add any more schools for a while. 12 is a pretty good number for a conference, and allows them to go to divisions if they choose with some cross-divisional play. That cuts down travel costs for the conference. But if CUSA does expand further, the Texas schools and other nearby regions (ASun, Southland, OVC, even CAA) will certainly get called before the Dakotas, for all the reasons you state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor Chaos
One school under the radar I think could move to CUSA is NC A&T. Not this year, but potentially within the next 3-5 years.
CUSA filled in Georgia with Kennesaw, North Carolina and South Carolina schools along with Texas would be obvious next targets.
Nothing has been exhausted. He hasnt contacted any conferences or lobbied anyone, much less put feelers out to like minded schoolsQuote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
ML isn't a visionary like GT and he hopes someday a lawsuit is a reason to wait. Just a retarted logic. Considering he isn't retarded and is very smart, he's just talking out of his ass and trying to pretend like there is hope
Small time mentality
If NDSU, Montana, Montana State, SDSU and Idaho all got together and said we want to go FBS...They would bust through barriers just like Liberty did, just call their bluff with a strong case for inclusion. It takes vision and guts to make that happen, which I sadly see very little of.
This would be the ideal scenario for NDSU IMO. In addition to vision and guts it also takes solidarity between multiple schools which is tough to achieve and maintain through what would surely be a tumultuous process.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent