A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by td577

I agree. I also think the athletic department is kind of between a rock and a hard place right now with future uncertainty. I don't think they want to go asking for money twice.

I do think having a two tiered approach to the problem should be announced. With the completion of the SHAC, there should be an announcement there will be a strategy developed to upgrade the dome or the next facility to meet demand of remaining in a relevant tier of college football. That would coincide with the shakeout of college football and the preparation to fluidly move into the tier of football that best suits Bison football. So instead of looking like it is a wait and see approach, it would be a proactive approach to a productive future. In the meantime, the second tier of the project is positioning the athletic department to jump at the opportunity to move towards the next level. We should be seeking active partners interested in seeking a similar future and having them on board with being prepared for the next step. If the next step is a collaboration of FCS and the remaining G5 schools, I do think our next step really does have to include an all sports conference once and for all as our next conference move better be our last for a long time.

We can simultaneously prepare for a future of bigger and better things while waiting for college football to realign. It minimizes the risk and the potential double investment disaster.

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Gene Taylor pretty much said the same thing. The operative word here is PATIENCE. Moves of this magnitude take time and resources.
This will not happen over night. According to Coach K you are looking at a 5 year minimum before the shakeout happens and then settle out. A move at the wrong time could be very costly.

WAC attack!!!

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Originally Posted by CAS4127

No discussion or new thread on newly approved rule to allow payments to athletes? I'd provide more info/links, but on IPhone. It was approved late last week as I understand. NDSU will have to do it to stay competitive, regardless of level we are at--and to all athletes in main sports IMO.


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At what point do the minor sports teams start crying foul and want a piece of the pie?

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Originally Posted by ndsubison1

At what point do the minor sports teams start crying foul and want a piece of the pie?

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That and Title 9, the latter of which is why we find WSB and WVB, although I think we have for a long time funded VB schollies, at least to an extent.


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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Gene Taylor pretty much said the same thing. The operative word here is PATIENCE. Moves of this magnitude take time and resources.
This will not happen over night. According to Coach K you are looking at a 5 year minimum before the shakeout happens and then settle out. A move at the wrong time could be very costly.

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Right. You move too early and you may have to do it twice.

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Originally Posted by td577

Right. You move too early and you may have to do it twice.

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Not to mention making the wrong move and not being able to get out of the deal you made.

[QUOTE=TransAmBison;976053]So let's say we move up and join a lower tier FBS team. Would we not play the same teams and occasionally win a obscure bowl game? Would we not get bored with the level of competition then as well? I do agree there would be the opportunity for some bigger games...but I'm just wondering if it is worth it. The playoffs are a blast...is one obscure bowl game worth that much more? Not trying to be a smarta##...just trying to create real dialogue. I am curious about this subject.*


As I said in my early post, the prize wouldn't be a bowl game, as I really feel that the playoffs and national championship would usually generate more excitement than a bowl game. The prize would be the chance to play some good P5 teams and if the stars align right for us, a big (formally BCS) bowl game. I know it sounds like kind of a week argument, but if the FBS games dry up for us, we will have no games that have the potential to raise fan interest and loyalty. The FCS games can be exciting, but they will not grown the fan base and generate the same level of publicity, both locally and nationally, that a P5 game has the potential to do.

I know full well the myriad of obstacles in our way to moving to a FBS conference, but at the very least the university should be exploring the possibility. I'm no insider, but it seems to me, from the outside looking in, a move to FBS hasn't even been on the table.

[QUOTE=LITTLEGUYSINGREEN;976143]

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

So let's say we move up and join a lower tier FBS team. Would we not play the same teams and occasionally win a obscure bowl game? Would we not get bored with the level of competition then as well? I do agree there would be the opportunity for some bigger games...but I'm just wondering if it is worth it. The playoffs are a blast...is one obscure bowl game worth that much more? Not trying to be a smarta##...just trying to create real dialogue. I am curious about this subject.*


As I said in my early post, the prize wouldn't be a bowl game, as I really feel that the playoffs and national championship would usually generate more excitement than a bowl game. The prize would be the chance to play some good P5 teams and if the stars align right for us, a big (formally BCS) bowl game. I know it sounds like kind of a week argument, but if the FBS games dry up for us, we will have no games that have the potential to raise fan interest and loyalty. The FCS games can be exciting, but they will not grown the fan base and generate the same level of publicity, both locally and nationally, that a P5 game has the potential to do.

I know full well the myriad of obstacles in our way to moving to a FBS conference, but at the very least the university should be exploring the possibility. I'm no insider, but it seems to me, from the outside looking in, a move to FBS hasn't even been on the table.

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Amazing what Bison football accomplished before the FBS games. Not to mention the size fan base. How did NDSU survive?
FBS? Gene Taylor said in a couple of interviews that they had contacted the WAC and MWC that if they were considering expansion not to forget about NDSU as they wanted to be in the conversation. As far as an offer to join the FBS I havent heard of one but thats what you need to move up.

So will you no longer be a fan if there are no more FBS games?

[QUOTE=56BISON73;976144]

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Originally Posted by LITTLEGUYSINGREEN

Amazing what Bison football accomplished before the FBS games. Not to mention the size fan base. How did NDSU survive?
FBS? Gene Taylor said in a couple of interviews that they had contacted the WAC and MWC that if they were considering expansion not to forget about NDSU as they wanted to be in the conversation. As far as an offer to join the FBS I havent heard of one but thats what you need to move up.

So will you no longer be a fan if there are no more FBS games?

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Never said that at all. I will always be a Bison fan, no matter the division. However, FBS games are a big deal to a great number of fans and usually generate more interest than a normal FCS game. I'm not saying that the program will dry up and die if we lose the FBS games, NDSU will be OK if we keep winning at the FCS level. But, I really feel that fan and media interest would suffer if we lose the FBS games. The program won't generate quite as much excitement as is currently does.

[QUOTE=LITTLEGUYSINGREEN;976148]

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Never said that at all. I will always be a Bison fan, no matter the division. However, FBS games are a big deal to a great number of fans and usually generate more interest than a normal FCS game. I'm not saying that the program will dry up and die if we lose the FBS games, NDSU will be OK if we keep winning at the FCS level. But, I really feel that fan and media interest would suffer if we lose the FBS games. The program won't generate quite as much excitement as is currently does.

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How could NDSU generate anymore excitement than it does now? You really cant if you are realistic. If some fans lose interest because of no FBS game I would question them being a real fan. And I usually wouldnt do that.

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Originally Posted by StL Bison Fan

Matt Larsen was on kfgo and talking about this. Below is the podcast link.
He said we are talking around 3500 each student but schools choose.
Don't have to pay all sports.

I see schools like uni having a tough time financially. If we begin to do this they might have to play 3 FBS schools :)

http://kfgo.com/podcasts/mike-mcfeel...en-01-21-2015/

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This would also be an institutional decision according to Matt, so there could be different situations in each conference based on what the individual schools do.

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Originally Posted by DIBISON

This would also be an institutional decision according to Matt, so there could be different situations in each conference based on what the individual schools do.

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Correct. I can see NDSU stepping it up and doing this.
Where will the other MVFC schools go with this? Don't know.
To hear uni with their so broke they have to play multi FBS schools and youngstown talking about feeding their players only one meal, how will they come up with more money for this?

[QUOTE=LITTLEGUYSINGREEN;976148]

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Never said that at all. I will always be a Bison fan, no matter the division. However, FBS games are a big deal to a great number of fans and usually generate more interest than a normal FCS game. I'm not saying that the program will dry up and die if we lose the FBS games, NDSU will be OK if we keep winning at the FCS level. But, I really feel that fan and media interest would suffer if we lose the FBS games. The program won't generate quite as much excitement as is currently does.

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[QUOTE=56BISON73;976150]

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Originally Posted by LITTLEGUYSINGREEN

How could NDSU generate anymore excitement than it does now? You really cant if you are realistic. If some fans lose interest because of no FBS game I would question them being a real fan. And I usually wouldnt do that.

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Well, like it or not, some fans may lose interest if we lose the FBS games. But, if you look at my bolded I never mentioned fans losing interest, just the level of excitement for the program may go down.

I'll give you an example, how many Bison fans travel to any regular season away game? With the exception of SDSU, not many. But, how many fans travel to our away FBS games? Thousands, and if more tickets were available it would be many more thousands. The FBS games generate way more fan interest than any other regular season game and draw way more media interest than any other game we play all season, including playoffs and national championships. Don't kid yourself, recruits are very aware of the opponents we play and playing (and winning) these games is a feather in our hat when it comes to recruiting. Playing FBS games provides nothing but good for our program and losing these games would have a negative impact on the program. It may not be a huge blow for the program, but a blow still the same. Many fans, including myself, would much rather drive to Ames to see us play ISU than drive to Missoula to see us play Montana, even if Mont. is the better program.

[QUOTE=LITTLEGUYSINGREEN;976158][QUOTE=LITTLEGUYSINGREEN;976148]

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Well, like it or not, some fans may lose interest if we lose the FBS games. But, if you look at my bolded I never mentioned fans losing interest, just the level of excitement for the program may go down.

I'll give you an example, how many Bison fans travel to any regular season away game? With the exception of SDSU, not many. But, how many fans travel to our away FBS games? Thousands, and if more tickets were available it would be many more thousands. The FBS games generate way more fan interest than any other regular season game and draw way more media interest than any other game we play all season, including playoffs and national championships. Don't kid yourself, recruits are very aware of the opponents we play and playing (and winning) these games is a feather in our hat when it comes to recruiting. Playing FBS games provides nothing but good for our program and losing these games would have a negative impact on the program. It may not be a huge blow for the program, but a blow still the same. Many fans, including myself, would much rather drive to Ames to see us play ISU than drive to Missoula to see us play Montana, even if Mont. is the better program.

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I am not saying I dont like the FBS games. I am also not saying that they dont have an impact. If we lose them we lose them but the sky wont fall down. I think without an FBS game we might get more people to the away games. I think thats part of the allure is the travel and a different location. Not saying the locations are exotic by any means.:biggrin:

PL, how many fcs programs do you think will be hurt financially if fbs no longer decides to pay them the hefty 6 figure game checks.


I wonder how much revenue is generated for poorly attended home games for a fair share amount of teams. ..relying on that pay check and no longer getting it will be killer.

NDSU will be fine since the support is there.
.
Some of these other teams. ..I don't know. What do you think?

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

PL, how many fcs programs do you think will be hurt financially if fbs no longer decides to pay them the hefty 6 figure game checks.


I wonder how much revenue is generated for poorly attended home games for a fair share amount of teams. ..relying on that pay check and no longer getting it will be killer.

NDSU will be fine since the support is there.
.
Some of these other teams. ..I don't know. What do you think?

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Bet it would kill USD, they don't even pay all their coaches do they? Hell it will hurt lots of teams in the Power Conferences of FCS

I think you will see lots of teams go bye bye...and UNI would be banded at Farley's nuts also

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

PL, how many fcs programs do you think will be hurt financially if fbs no longer decides to pay them the hefty 6 figure game checks.


I wonder how much revenue is generated for poorly attended home games for a fair share amount of teams. ..relying on that pay check and no longer getting it will be killer.

NDSU will be fine since the support is there.
.
Some of these other teams. ..I don't know. What do you think?

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Teams like uni play more than one FBS because they say they need the money. Don't know how many others do and won't say so.

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Originally Posted by tjbison

Bet it would kill USD, they don't even pay all their coaches do they? Hell it will hurt lots of teams in the Power Conferences of FCS

I think you will see lots of teams go bye bye...and UNI would be banded at Farley's nuts also

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That's why I oppose the wait and see strategy.

Yea I get why people are for it. And it'd make sense if things in the higher ups weren't moving so fast. But it's gotta be in ndsu's best interest to keep up and covering their own ass first and foremost.

those wait and see'ers would've never survived the Titanic.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

PL, how many fcs programs do you think will be hurt financially if fbs no longer decides to pay them the hefty 6 figure game checks.


I wonder how much revenue is generated for poorly attended home games for a fair share amount of teams. ..relying on that pay check and no longer getting it will be killer.

NDSU will be fine since the support is there.
.
Some of these other teams. ..I don't know. What do you think?

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I am sure some will get hurt. Those that rely on the game will have to change their business model-funding sources. If they dont adapt they fall to the level they can afford.

Thats why this is going to take time to settle out.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

That's why I oppose the wait and see strategy.

Yea I get why people are for it. And it'd make sense if things in the higher ups weren't moving so fast. But it's gotta be in ndsu's best interest to keep up and covering their own ass first and foremost.

those wait and see'ers would've never survived the Titanic.

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Question---since you want to move now where would we go? I have not seen any invitation to any conferences. Before you say we need to sell ourselves---You cant make conferences take you.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

That's why I oppose the wait and see strategy.

Yea I get why people are for it. And it'd make sense if things in the higher ups weren't moving so fast. But it's gotta be in ndsu's best interest to keep up and covering their own ass first and foremost.

those wait and see'ers would've never survived the Titanic.

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unless you count the ones that opted to book for the second crossing.......I apologize for the stupid drift.

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Originally Posted by StL Bison Fan

Teams like uni play more than one FBS because they say they need the money. Don't know how many others do and won't say so.

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That was brought up at AGS by Bison4Life/Nodak4ever and you should have seen the epic backlash by our favorite UNI fan Clenz. According to him UNI is doing just fine money wise.

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Originally Posted by marenlee

That was brought up at AGS by Bison4Life/Nodak4ever and you should have seen the epic backlash by our favorite UNI fan Clenz. According to him UNI is doing just fine money wise.

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Did they explain why the ex-Youngstown coach was crying about not feeding the players enough?

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Question---since you want to move now where would we go? I have not seen any invitation to any conferences. Before you say we need to sell ourselves---You cant make conferences take you.

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And this is where you are 100% correct. The basis of my earlier argument was that we should at least have the feelers out there. I wasn't aware that they were already out there.

As it currently stands, we have no choice but to wait and hope for a conference invite. But, if the FBS games dry up and we should happen to receive a FBS conference invite, I am of the opinion we should do everything we can to make it happen. However, I really don't expect anything like this to happen anytime soon.

Either way, I will personally be comfortable with whatever happens. If we stay in the FCS with no FBS games, I would be disappointed, but would still be a fan and would still go to as many games as I currently do now. FCS football will still have exciting games to be played and I still contend the playoffs have a level of excitement that is hard to replicate in FBS. On the other hand, P5 games have their own level of excitement, unmatched exposure, and are very good for the program on many, many levels.

So I guess by default we are in the wait and see mode weather we like it or not.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Question---since you want to move now where would we go? I have not seen any invitation to any conferences. Before you say we need to sell ourselves---You cant make conferences take you.

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IDK, hopefully the guys in the higher ups are campaigning

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Originally Posted by LITTLEGUYSINGREEN

And this is where you are 100% correct. The basis of my earlier argument was that we should at least have the feelers out there. I wasn't aware that they were already out there.

As it currently stands, we have no choice but to wait and hope for a conference invite. But, if the FBS games dry up and we should happen to receive a FBS conference invite, I am of the opinion we should do everything we can to make it happen. However, I really don't expect anything like this to happen anytime soon.

Either way, I will personally be comfortable with whatever happens. If we stay in the FCS with no FBS games, I would be disappointed, but would still be a fan and would still go to as many games as I currently do now. FCS football will still have exciting games to be played and I still contend the playoffs have a level of excitement that is hard to replicate in FBS. On the other hand, P5 games have their own level of excitement, unmatched exposure, and are very good for the program on many, many levels.

So I guess by default we are in the wait and see mode weather we like it or not.

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I think this is the nub. There isn't a G5 conference out there that wants to do anything until everything is done shaking out. We don't want to do anything until everything is done shaking out. Nothing can happen, well, until everything is done shaking out. If the P5s go 16 each, there will be a lot of movement. The MWC, AAC, and a couple of other conferences will get dissected. Heck, by sheer default, NDSU might be in discussions to make a larger jump if there was a state commitment simply because its a football school with new state of the art facilities for everything else and a Boise like draw out in the middle of no competition for 3 states. Instead of stupid nickname legislation, the state will call one of the big three back to introduce national legislation to introduce some stupid bill that makes it mandatory for every state to have an institution in the P5 by their choice, not the NCAAs. There is so many unknowns, no one wants to make a move.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Question---since you want to move now where would we go? I have not seen any invitation to any conferences. Before you say we need to sell ourselves---You cant make conferences take you.

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Honestly, that's not too much of a hindrance. If NDSU felt they absolutely needed to go FBS, I have no doubt they could wrangle an invite within a couple/few months. They'd just need to pull a UCONN: Go to the MAC and buy an invite. Get a football-only invite to the MAC and agree to forgo all conference money for something like 5 to 10 years, and also pay some stupid-large entrance fee of a million or three. Then agree to part ways within 5 years. All the while staying in the Summit. It's ugly, but it gets your foot in the door. In principle, it's not all that different from the initial DI move; no invite? find another way to kick down the door until someone wants you.



That being said, it's something that should only be considered as a last resort. Just saying that the "no invite, no discussion argument" isn't really all that valid.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

IDK, hopefully the guys in the higher ups are campaigning

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So you dont know but regardless you want to move now?

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Honestly, that's not too much of a hindrance. If NDSU felt they absolutely needed to go FBS, I have no doubt they could wrangle an invite within a couple/few months. They'd just need to pull a UCONN: Go to the MAC and buy an invite. Get a football-only invite to the MAC and agree to forgo all conference money for something like 5 to 10 years, and also pay some stupid-large entrance fee of a million or three. Then agree to part ways within 5 years. All the while staying in the Summit. It's ugly, but it gets your foot in the door. In principle, it's not all that different from the initial DI move; no invite? find another way to kick down the door until someone wants you.



That being said, it's something that should only be considered as a last resort. Just saying that the "no invite, no discussion argument" isn't really all that valid.

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Of course you can. With enough money you can trick fuck anyone to get what you want. But you were the only person to present that scenario. Which of course you already know would get very ugly. Ive been waiting for the "we must move now" crowd to come up with a viable scenario. But when that question is asked it gets very silent. Of couse the operative word"viable" could be the main hindrance.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Of course you can. With enough money you can trick fuck anyone to get what you want. But you were the only person to present that scenario. Which of course you already know would get very ugly. Ive been waiting for the "we must move now" crowd to come up with a viable scenario. But when that question is asked it gets very silent. Of couse the operative word"viable" could be the main hindrance.

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Well we could join the Big Sky, then we know for sure we will be FBS......it's set in stone



How's that for a viable option?




:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by tjbison

Well we could join the Big Sky, then we know for sure we will be FBS......it's set in stone



How's that for a viable option?






:biggrin:

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Ohhh I see what you did there.:biggrin: Did you use the vulcan mind meld to channel SV?

ps well played!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Honestly, that's not too much of a hindrance. If NDSU felt they absolutely needed to go FBS, I have no doubt they could wrangle an invite within a couple/few months. They'd just need to pull a UCONN: Go to the MAC and buy an invite. Get a football-only invite to the MAC and agree to forgo all conference money for something like 5 to 10 years, and also pay some stupid-large entrance fee of a million or three. Then agree to part ways within 5 years. All the while staying in the Summit. It's ugly, but it gets your foot in the door. In principle, it's not all that different from the initial DI move; no invite? find another way to kick down the door until someone wants you.



That being said, it's something that should only be considered as a last resort. Just saying that the "no invite, no discussion argument" isn't really all that valid.

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For sake of discussion let's say this is true (I doubt very much it is because ND is too far away from most G5 conference teams to be seriously considered much less wanted by anyone). Where the fuck is this money going to come from? NDSU is still short about $3 million (or so) to finish the goddamn BSA for cripes sake, and you think that money can easily put together to get a buy in?

I call double bullshit on the whole post.

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Originally Posted by BisonNeil

For sake of discussion let's say this is true (I doubt very much it is because ND is too far away from most G5 conference teams to be seriously considered much less wanted by anyone). Where the fuck is this money going to come from? NDSU is still short about $3 million (or so) to finish the goddamn BSA for cripes sake, and you think that money can easily put together to get a buy in?

I call double bullshit on the whole post.

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Tony and SamsRams will make a huge donation out of their profits from their new "pay" Bisonville/Bisonation website.

The other option is the formation of a new conference with the elite teams from the Big Sky and the MVC. The commissioner of the Big Sky had already indicated the whole conference might move up. Very unrealistic. But the elite teams from both conferences have the resources, stadiums, and can satisfy the 15,000 attendance requirement. Additionally, right off the bat is would be the top G6 conference or right near the top.

Not saying it will happen. But if Montana, Montana State and Eastern Washington are jumping ship, I highly doubt that NDSU, SDSU, would not strongly considering joining the move up especially if they were granted a waiver for post season playoffs/bowl games. (Whether this would be in the "second" tier or just FBS.)

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Originally Posted by runtheoption

Tony and SamsRams will make a huge donation out of their profits from their new "pay" Bisonville/Bisonation website.

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And Longhorn will finally join Teammakers which will put us over the top. :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by BisonNeil

For sake of discussion let's say this is true (I doubt very much it is because ND is too far away from most G5 conference teams to be seriously considered much less wanted by anyone). Where the fuck is this money going to come from? NDSU is still short about $3 million (or so) to finish the goddamn BSA for cripes sake, and you think that money can easily put together to get a buy in?

I call double bullshit on the whole post.

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Apparently you missed at least part of my point. I'm not saying it would be a good idea. I'm not saying NDSU would be able to accomplish it money-wise. I'm just saying that there is a theoretical way around the invite problem. The reason I think it's possible is because UCONN just did it. They wanted to go FBS and get into CUSA or the old Big East(now AAC), but neither of those conferences was willing to invite them. So they went to the MAC and asked for a football-only invite to satisfy the NCAA FBS requirement. After a few years in the conference, UCONN and the MAC agreed to part ways with no apparent hard feelings on either side.

So there's a way to do it, it just would cost a s**t-ton of money. For that kind of money, a conference would use the entrance fee to subsidize travel for the existing conference members. Say a $2M entrance fee split over 4 years. The conference could give each of the four schools that would need to travel to NDSU a $100k to cover travel expenses and still have $100k left over. If all parties knew the arrangement was only going to be for 4 years, don't you think a G5 like the MAC would go for the deal? It's not like we're talking about travel costs for all sports; it would only be four FB games a year.

Whether NDSU could ever afford it is another question altogether. I doubt it. Heavily, heavily doubt it. The only situation I could see where it could happen is if the alternative is even worse. If we reach a situation where it's clear that the only two options are a move to FBS(and no conference wants us) or a slow death spiral due to FCS as we know it falling apart. Not unlike what DII was looking like circa 2003. In that case, the funds could be found somewhere, even if it means institutional funds. It could be somewhat justified as a one-time cost. This is a last, last, last resort situation and meant more as a thought exercise than any real kind of plan.

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Apparently you missed at least part of my point. I'm not saying it would be a good idea. I'm not saying NDSU would be able to accomplish it money-wise. I'm just saying that there is a theoretical way around the invite problem. The reason I think it's possible is because UCONN just did it. They wanted to go FBS and get into CUSA or the old Big East(now AAC), but neither of those conferences was willing to invite them. So they went to the MAC and asked for a football-only invite to satisfy the NCAA FBS requirement. After a few years in the conference, UCONN and the MAC agreed to part ways with no apparent hard feelings on either side.

So there's a way to do it, it just would cost a s**t-ton of money. For that kind of money, a conference would use the entrance fee to subsidize travel for the existing conference members. Say a $2M entrance fee split over 4 years. The conference could give each of the four schools that would need to travel to NDSU a $100k to cover travel expenses and still have $100k left over. If all parties knew the arrangement was only going to be for 4 years, don't you think a G5 like the MAC would go for the deal? It's not like we're talking about travel costs for all sports; it would only be four FB games a year.

Whether NDSU could ever afford it is another question altogether. I doubt it. Heavily, heavily doubt it. The only situation I could see where it could happen is if the alternative is even worse. If we reach a situation where it's clear that the only two options are a move to FBS(and no conference wants us) or a slow death spiral due to FCS as we know it falling apart. Not unlike what DII was looking like circa 2003. In that case, the funds could be found somewhere, even if it means institutional funds. It could be somewhat justified as a one-time cost. This is a last, last, last resort situation and meant more as a thought exercise than any real kind of plan.

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You seem to be confusing UMass with UConn. UCOnn was a member of the Big East and chose to upgrade their FCS to FBS, and never had to switch conferences to do it.

The MAC added UMass to be an eastern partner for Temple. Neither worked out, so the MAC doesn't want to fool with affiliates again. The MAC has stated there is no need to go beyond their 12 members anymore.

NDSU would have to buy their way in at a very high cost (>$5 mill) to make it work for the MAC. Otherwise hope and pray that one of the MAC teams leave for the American or CUSA. Ill St has a much better shot if that happens.

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Originally Posted by FargoBorne

You seem to be confusing UMass with UConn. UCOnn was a member of the Big East and chose to upgrade their FCS to FBS, and never had to switch conferences to do it.

The MAC added UMass to be an eastern partner for Temple. Neither worked out, so the MAC doesn't want to fool with affiliates again. The MAC has stated there is no need to go beyond their 12 members anymore.

NDSU would have to buy their way in at a very high cost (>$5 mill) to make it work for the MAC. Otherwise hope and pray that one of the MAC teams leave for the American or CUSA. Ill St has a much better shot if that happens.

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If Illinois st. Moves that allows a chance possibly for a full mvfc membership which would be a win in my book

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Apparently you missed at least part of my point. I'm not saying it would be a good idea. I'm not saying NDSU would be able to accomplish it money-wise. I'm just saying that there is a theoretical way around the invite problem. The reason I think it's possible is because UCONN just did it. They wanted to go FBS and get into CUSA or the old Big East(now AAC), but neither of those conferences was willing to invite them. So they went to the MAC and asked for a football-only invite to satisfy the NCAA FBS requirement. After a few years in the conference, UCONN and the MAC agreed to part ways with no apparent hard feelings on either side.

So there's a way to do it, it just would cost a s**t-ton of money. For that kind of money, a conference would use the entrance fee to subsidize travel for the existing conference members. Say a $2M entrance fee split over 4 years. The conference could give each of the four schools that would need to travel to NDSU a $100k to cover travel expenses and still have $100k left over. If all parties knew the arrangement was only going to be for 4 years, don't you think a G5 like the MAC would go for the deal? It's not like we're talking about travel costs for all sports; it would only be four FB games a year.

Whether NDSU could ever afford it is another question altogether. I doubt it. Heavily, heavily doubt it. The only situation I could see where it could happen is if the alternative is even worse. If we reach a situation where it's clear that the only two options are a move to FBS(and no conference wants us) or a slow death spiral due to FCS as we know it falling apart. Not unlike what DII was looking like circa 2003. In that case, the funds could be found somewhere, even if it means institutional funds. It could be somewhat justified as a one-time cost. This is a last, last, last resort situation and meant more as a thought exercise than any real kind of plan.

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Yes, you are right, I did miss that point. However, UConn didn't "just do it". They moved their football team to FBS 15 years ago. The landscape has changed a lot since then with conference realignments. Which brings up the other point that I think the FBS enthusiasts tend to disregard. Consider this:

SEC- 14 members
Big 10- 14
Big 12- 10
PAC 12- 12
ACC- 15

MAC- 12
MWC- 12
CUSA- 14
SunBelt- 13
American- 11

You see the trend here? Conferences want an even number of teams. Everyone thinks the MAC and MWC are the obvious choices for NDSU to join, all the President needs to do is lobby them. Pure triple distilled bullshit. They have an even number of members and would have to want two more outside their travel range. I just don't see that happening. I realize that the MAC will be down one with UMass leaving, but again, NDSU is outside of the range of travel for them and is a completely differnt instituition. SunBelt could be an option I suppose, but they would have to be absolutely nuts to take an outlier like NDSU.

Unless one or two of the P5 conferences want more members, such as the ACC or Big 12, and accomplish that by robbing a G5 conference member (like NIU), I just don't think there is any impetus for any conference to seek much less want new members. It's a pipe dream that I am not particularly interested in participating in quite frankly.

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Originally Posted by FargoBorne

You seem to be confusing UMass with UConn. UCOnn was a member of the Big East and chose to upgrade their FCS to FBS, and never had to switch conferences to do it.

The MAC added UMass to be an eastern partner for Temple. Neither worked out, so the MAC doesn't want to fool with affiliates again. The MAC has stated there is no need to go beyond their 12 members anymore.

NDSU would have to buy their way in at a very high cost (>$5 mill) to make it work for the MAC. Otherwise hope and pray that one of the MAC teams leave for the American or CUSA. Ill St has a much better shot if that happens.

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You're right, I confused the two. I meant UMass. My bad.


And to make it clear one more time for everyone, I don't think NDSU should or will do any of what I said. Just that I believe that it would be possible if faced with two terrible choices. We are nowhere near that point, and I strongly doubt things could ever get to that point.