You could also turn that argument around and ask "why do tiny population states like ND and SD have multiple D1 football programs?"
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You could also turn that argument around and ask "why do tiny population states like ND and SD have multiple D1 football programs?"
Is there an option that gets the MVFC as a whole to become FBS? I know some here desperately want to leave behind most of those schools but that might end up being the only path. I too fear that we're going to be stuck.
I don't see moving up as a whole a possibility. Too many wouldn't do it. But...it would be a good start. NDSU, SDSU, USD, and UND would be a lock. Maybe Missouri St. Then we would need teams to fill in. Montana & Montana St would need to be pushed hard. Cal Poly & Cal Davis did it with once before...I'd try again. If they'd be willing to increase their investment and actually support their football team, we could even include the Gophers.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrygunBison
Yeah I don't see that happening. We'd need a little more ample surplus for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransAmBison
I agree that the MVFC wouldn't do it as a whole however if we could get one or two others (primarily in our region of the country) to do this, that would be a great way to get a conference like CUSA or MAC to take the risk of adding another division to their conference as football only.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransAmBison
The question would be "what's in it for them?" , rather than what's in it for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
The answer needs to be LOTS more money, or they won't have a reason to do this.
I do think MAC is interested in expansion, if the money side works.
CUSA will add Tarleton (and maybe the entire UAC) before they add us.
We see "Pud team" ... they see: Texas, growing school, easy travel, 24k stadium, Fort Worth market, texas a&m system money.
Not trying to be a Dick here it just comes naturally….what makes you think MAC wants to expand? I haven’t seen or read anything in that regards with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Among other things, reported rumors from media members in the know that WKU and MTSU were offered MAC membership.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
It would have supposedly required a long term GoR agreement (rumor was 20 years) to get ESPN to ante up. MTSU is holding out for AAC instead.
Which goes back to - the money has to work.
https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/s...058230787?s=20
This is where I get lost. What is the mechanism for conferences getting more money? If media contracts are where the money comes from that either comes from new tv markets (where the school actually matters) or building a conference that is successful in football and exposure is gained in that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Where CUSA stands now, adding a team like Tarleton does next to nothing (they are NOT located in Ft. Worth - 80 miles away). Their school and fan base would literally draw LESS eyeballs than either NDSU or SDSU. Aside from them not really bringing any media market, NDSU/SDSU is lightyears ahead of them from a competitive standpoint.
If the CUSA wants to grow into a conference that can take on the Sunbelt and other G5 leagues then they need to do it by raising the level of their schools competitively. This will bring in the interest and would result in increased media payments.
There is lots of speculation that Delaware and SFA are going to go FBS soon and will likely join the other recent move ups in CUSA. The MWC or AAC are never going to add a school directly from FCS. Our absolute and best opportunity is to grab SDSU and throw in on CUSA football only. If we can have a successful run in CUSA, we will get out forever home invite. Obviously there is tons of risk and $$$ at stake, but what other choice do we have?Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
Even though Delaware is on the fringes of CUSA territory, it is unlikely they will end up in CUSA.Quote:
Originally Posted by AKBison
If you go look at the UD forum, all the fan chatter is about joining the MAC
http://www.gohens.net/boards/viewtopic.php?t=29746
If CUSA adds, yes it would be from nearby schools like SFA, UCA, and Tarleton, though it looks like they want to "hold" for a while.
It is actually the MAC that appears open for business, not CUSA.
Fuck I’d take the MAC at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
CUSA would have jumped at NDSU in a heartbeat when they were looking to save their conference and I believe they would still be interested if NDSU showed interest. Their "footprint" isn't tight like the MAC. They aren't a bus league. They have "paired up" somewhat but their not all bussing. (i.e. NMSU/UTEP, SHSU/LA Tech, Jax St/Kennesaw) If NDSU/SDSU approached them they would likely seriously consider it. NDSU's media deal is more than the media deal share that CUSA members are getting. You pitch that as a negative but I see it as the path in. We have leverage because as you keep stating, the money needs to work. I see NDSU's media deal as proof that they can bring brand recognition to a conference desperately in need of some. NDSU wants a better situation than CUSA, the reality is there likely isn't going to be one. In order to get in, NDSU is going to have to take a risk and bet on themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I would too but that is less likely than probably all of the G5 conferences except the Sun Belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by heffray
Lol tarleton? Who the fuck is that bro
I don't believe we were ever in serious consideration. Both CUSA and NDSU denied there were any discussions.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
At one point CUSA cast a wide net to see who was available, but their footprint today is the same as it was before. Its a SouthEastern conference that covers Texas to Virginia. It's almost exactly the same territory as the Sun Belt, which is also considered regional.
https://conferenceusa.com/sports/202...embership.aspx
https://sunbeltsports.org/news/2022/...w-members.aspx
If you look at a map, and see where the current gaps are, its obvious where they would add.
- Two more texas schools (they had 4 previously).
- North Carolina
- South Carolina
- Mississippi
Kennesaw fit this strategy, and helped fill one gap on the map (Georgia)
In time, they will add 2-4 more in the same region, and then split into East and West divisions like they had previously.
Despite the name, it's a very regional conference, and will remain so.
We would have had a better shot at the American, who has previously entertained westward expansion, but recently decided to refocus on staying in their footprint as well.
Aresco (AAC):
"sensible" and "sustainable" are code words for reducing costs by staying regional.Quote:
we plan to focus any expansion efforts on schools that allow for sensible and sustainable competition and student-athlete well-being within our strong geographic footprint.
That’s interesting I feel like the MAC has quietly sent the message they aren’t wanting to expand.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Maybe I’m way out of the loop. Any links to chatter?
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++++++++++++Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenfieldBison
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I'd take anything. I know some folks (me included) look down at CUSA, but I'd take that too. But I dont know how much longer NDSU is gonna be appealing to anyone. Fans are getting checked out for a variety of reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by heffray
I'd have mixed feelings, but would accept it if our admin feels it is a good fit and can make it work.Quote:
Originally Posted by heffray
My doubts are whether it can work financially for both us and the MAC.
My fears are whether anyone would show up for a Wednesday night game vs Western Michigan or Ball State.
But, I recognize it is one of our few realistic pathways to FBS, so in the end would not complain.
Marshall, UCF, and others got their start in the MAC. It has been good to some schools.
We would potentially be there a VERY long time, if the 20 year GoR rumor is true.
This is why I'd want to see how the MWC shakes out first. There's still a 10-20% chance they rebuild the PAC.
New Mexico to Virginia is not regional. In the Sun Belt there are groupings of schools within driving distance. In CUSA there are pairs. SHSU and Kennesaw are not FBS ready but they were all they could get in their desperation. NDSU and CUSA aren’t going to acknowledge talks publicly because there’s no benefit. NDSU felt there were better offers out there and let CUSA know they weren’t interested. CUSA moved on and found other alternatives. My .02Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
Add two more texas schools, split the conference into a western half of 6 schools (Texas, NM, Louisiana) and an eastern half of 6 schools, and suddenly it starts to look very regional like the SBC. This is the plan, and why they are talking to the schools they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I'm convinced Tarleton would have already been announced, if the NCAA had granted the waiver they requested to transition to FBS sooner.
The two Texas schools (SFA, Tarleton) are both on the east side of the state. That gives them a grouping of 4 with SHSU and LaTech. Still far from being a regional conference. 70% of road trips will still be flights and more for the outliers. It’s not the MAC or the SunBelt even with those additions. MTSU and WKU have explored leaving and Tarleton/SFA aren’t going to make them more likely to stay. Also, they still have schools that bring almost nothing from brand recognition/media to the table. NDSU would likely be near the top of that conference in terms of brand recognition and media. I’ll give you the recruiting angle of being in Texas, Louisiana and Florida but that’s a bit overrated in my opinion considering how far down on the pecking order these schools are. NDSU has an attractive package to market to CUSA and they would listen. Our package isn’t near as attractive to MWC, AAC, or MAC for various reasons. But if we’re patient I’m sure that perfect offer will come.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I agree with about 90% of what you're saying, outside that one sentence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
At the end of the day, all the rumors, smoke, and chatter at places like Tarleton and SFA say this is what is going down. I don't believe Judy would even return our phone call for a serious discussion. Tarleton wouldn't have applied for a waiver without a place to go. Its well known there have been CUSA campus visits at a number of these schools.
Also - while there might be flights involved, shorter regional flights are still considered desirable. A high percentage of the SBC games involve flights as well. SBC is not really a bus league, but it is regional. The same thing is true with the American to an extent.
Ok. So tell us the pitch for NDSU to MWC, AAC or MAC? We have less to offer them. That’s why this whole “we have to be patient” mentality makes absolutely no logical sense. It’s essentially saying let’s just stay FCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
nopeQuote:
Originally Posted by OrygunBison
we should all want NDSU to go alone.
A FB only doesn't help an FBS conference short of members (only full members count).
A "north division" doesn't help an existing FBS because it just adds mouths to feed.
Build it (a western version of the MAC) and appeal en masse to the NCAA like Liberty did.
I had a thought last night about whether any amount of the message from these lower G5 schools wanting to stay regional is because they know they'll never attract a school thta moves the needle for their fans. They aren't going to go out and get even a mid-level name recognition school. So with the strategy of staying regional(even in non bus leagues) they aren't setting expectations that won't be fulfilled.
I admit that if this is in any way a consideration it's very minimal at best OR it's simply the small mindset driven by being a small fish.
My thought process for this was remembering something a mentor told me many years ago about "fleas in a jar"
Anyway, that was a lot of words for what amounts to a simple thought experiment that will indeed result in multiple replies/post that miss my overall point. You're welcome Bisonville!!Quote:
When fleas are placed in a jar, they try to jump out – but after the lid is placed on, the fleas stop attempting the escape – as they learn the boundaries of the new environment they’re in. Even when the lid is removed, the fleas never jump out. Their thinking has created the ‘lid’ as the boundary, so has conditioned them to limit their jumping.
Larson/Phelps are fleas. got it. they will coast for 5-6 more years then retire out east while NDSU DOES NOTHING TO MOVE UP YET AGAIN
And here is our first post thinking it’s in reference to what I said yet totally missing the mark. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
I said nothing about NDSU.
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So, the G5 conferences have fleas? Or do they have glass jars?Quote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R
That reminds me of an old saying in G5 conferences -- I know it's in the FCS, probably in the G5 -- that says, fool me once, shame on the fleas for putting lids on glass jars because it doesn't let the horse you led get a drink.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Again, your beef isn't with Larson/Phelps, it's with Bresciani/Cook...at least bitch at the right people...
This right here is the essence of Bisonville....kudos!!Quote:
Originally Posted by runtheoption
Spectacular.Quote:
Originally Posted by GCWaters
oops!! Short, fat finger syndrome!! Fixed it...Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
As in all rational decision-making, it goes back to risk/reward. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R
You can make the argument that they’re underestimating reward or overestimating risk.
Its too late. Do you have any idea what you've done!?!?!?!?Quote:
Originally Posted by GCWaters
++++++++++Quote:
Originally Posted by runtheoption
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This is my stance is I think they are overestimating the risk of openly investigating opportunities “above” them. It’s common for new info and interested parties to come out of the woodwork when you put things out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
I’ve witnessed this so many times in business in careers, etc. sometimes people and entities don’t know they’re interested in something until it becomes a tangible thing.
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So many people have a very hard time seeing opportunities. They think they should be asked, when in reality that’s typically not how it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by TAILG8R