What question is that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10
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What question is that.Quote:
Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10
The one reality of FCS is it is a football division for basketball schools. NDSU is one of only a few football schools playing in a basketball division. That is reality. The alternatives at the moment suck. Given all the other parameters, if all the other FCS schools got serious about football, it is a nice level for us. Less scholarships, smaller stadium, and more regional competition.
I don't think the rest of FCS will catch up in intensity. I don't think most of the G5 schools match us in football intensity. But now we have the problem of being the little kid with not much to offer. Geographically, we suck. Demographically, people don't appreciate we have national interest, so we suck.
We are in no man's land. There is nothing left to do here but no where else to go that is better. The one thing that is going to happen is the FBS shakeup. That is becoming more real every day. I thought it was going to be initiated by the P5 conferences to break away but I think it will come from G5 schools saying they don't even want to try keeping up anymore.
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If we move up....we lose some of our national interest and become blah
NDSUs fan interest has reached its peak. The only way to increase it is to move up. That however, isnt guaranteed.Quote:
Originally Posted by LITTLEGUYSINGREEN
There is no up to move too. The G5 are also a bunch of basketball schools with football teams and the P5 don't want to share with them either. It's the same game only more expensive.
I believe this is true. As things stand an FBS NDSU doesn't hist gameday after beating KSU or ISU.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
I don't disagree with this. Sagarin is really the only way we can characterize our season compared to FBS schools since we aren't at that level. Marshall had a nice year. They finished 9 spots ahead of the Bison and would be even up in the Fargodome. Yet even with their 13-1 record, they didn't get any more exposure this year then we did. In fact, over the past 4 year, NDSU has been in the top 50 teams in the country and you have to get into the top 15 before you start seeing single schools with consistently more national attention. I am not saying we are getting this tremendous amount of national spotlight either, it is just after you get outside the top 10, there really isn't much said about anyone more than a couple of times per season. Then when you throw Gameday, ESPN, ESPN2, and FS1 games in there, there aren't a whole lot of schools outside the top 10 who can say they received much more national attention. Then you got Fargo on TV mixed in there. Nationally, people are generally interested in Fargo, NDSU and ND. We are different here. Being in the MAC does nothing. Sunbelt does nothing. MWC does a little more than nothing, but maybe not much more than what you have now. This year could have seen NDSU in the Fiesta Bowl if they won the MWC, so that would have been something. Of course when there is a shakeup, the MWC might get gutted of its best teams to top off the P5 conferences. At least then we will probably still be back in the second tier and be the top team with a newly formed G8 or something and then it is a new ballgame.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
The reality also is right now you are correct. Any move less than a P5 conference, which isn't going to happen even if the Big 12 needs some schools and we meet like 7 of the 12 criteria for it, will probably hurt the program in the long run more than staying in FCS and being competitive every season. Even if the Big 12 threw the biggest present of all time and sent an invite this way, we need the state to back the move because we are froze out for 5 years of the main bulk of TV money for that long and need a new stadium. The long run would be a boost of $27M+ a year but they would see the 5 year $175M startup as being prohibitive. Dreaming is fun, but when you start to look at every angle, it starts turning into a nightmare.
When the shakeup is all finished, the P5 will take all the G5 football schools and now you have your new FCS. Now we are football school playing with more basketball schools. The good news is that some of them do take football a little more seriously and with platform in which they can be competitive, might further increase the product division wide.Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonaudit
I think sagarian is great and all; but it doesn't change that NDSU BEATING Iowa stif we are on equal footing is a non story
As are many of the games you guys hang on to
I don't know what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
If we move up..: beating Iowa st gets us no press neither does Colorado st or many of the other games... We become western Michigan or Wyoming and that's not cool.... Sagarian is great and all and I know you guys live and die by it.... I think it often rates us higher then we should be.... How many sec teams do you think we could beat and how many were we ranked ahead of is my train of thought
I agree that if P5 teams are done playing us now that we need to take a more serious look at what's going on. I agree with what Gene Taylor and Matt Larsen have said, though: we need to wait and see how college football as a whole pans out. We have no idea if the P5 are going to break away or not. If they do, then we move up. NDSU should always be a part of the second highest level of D1. If we can't get an FBS game on the schedule in 2017 or 2018 things need to be reevaluated. It might be time to start looking at games like Hawaii or Ball State again, but in what way does that help our exposure?
It's the first paragraph of the postQuote:
Originally Posted by 56BISON73
We were ranked ahead of 3 SEC teams. South Carolina, Kentucky and Vandy.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
Just listened to Klieman's interview with Dom and Klopack. He said it's harder for everyone to get FBS games (especially us with our success) due to the playoff. I get that, but how many teams in a conference really have a chance to make it? 4 or 5 tops?
Let me answer that for you. MAC schools hosting P5 teams (NDSU could do this!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10
http://csnbbs.com/thread-722809.html
2015
Michigan state @ WMU
Oklahoma St @ CMU
Iowa st @ Toledo
Pitt @ Akron
2016
Kansas @ CMU
Boston college at NIU
2017
Kansas @ Ohio
2018
Miami FL at Toledo
Maryland at NIU
I don't recall saying sagarin is absolute. I said it is the only tool given the lack of play between sub-divisions. It has also proven to be fairly good at putting teams in the right ballpark. Is NDSU the 32nd best team in the nation? Probably not. I would say they are probably somewhere between 25-39. I would also say Marshall is between 16-30. Since they are in the ballpark relative if their ranking, it is just easier to refer to them as their ranking.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
Btw, NDSU would be competitive with anyone in the country ranked outside the top 12 or so which includes a lot of P5 schools and even some SEC ones.
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Case in point... Consider our friends Georgia Southern. Last year, in the first year of transition they beat Florida, a National Powerhouse. Now granted, Florida is having a bad year, however, so is every FBS team we play (just ask their fans). How much play did the Georgia Southern win get? Did ESPN Gameday talk about showing up? Now granted, the victory was at the end of the year which had some to do with it, but our FBS wins, coupled with our titles, coupled with our winning streak, coupled with our devoted fan base is what makes us an interesting story.Quote:
Originally Posted by unbison
It got pub. And they'll still be playing those games when the FBS doesn't play these games anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMB
Hard to get the pub when the games no longer exist.
So, other than the 2013 team, the other 3 Championship teams would be scrambling to get a Bowl invite. Even at 13-1 Marshall wasn't even in the discussion for a playoff. We could have gotten a better Bowl invite if we were in the MWC and won the Championship there. Any idea how we'd have fared against Boise State?Quote:
Originally Posted by td577
I think it's all about continuing to grow NDSU football. Staying in the FCS and keeping the Fargodome as a football venue for the next 30 years provides no growth. So did the best times ever already occur for NDSU football? The four peat titles, back to back Gameday, etc. What if after the ESPN game to start next season at Montana everything falls apart. No Gameday and during the season NDSU does OK, yet doesn't go far in the playoffs due to some team pulling a comeback win on us? The following season the last FBS game at Iowa and regardless of outcome where do we go from there? Who has a vision to keep things moving forward. I for one don't care to just keep playing the same teams in the playoffs and occasionally win a national title.
Sagarin: NDSU -2.5 v. Boise on a neutral field.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernBison
So let's say we move up and join a lower tier FBS team. Would we not play the same teams and occasionally win a obscure bowl game? Would we not get bored with the level of competition then as well? I do agree there would be the opportunity for some bigger games...but I'm just wondering if it is worth it. The playoffs are a blast...is one obscure bowl game worth that much more? Not trying to be a smarta##...just trying to create real dialogue. I am curious about this subject.*Quote:
Originally Posted by SDbison
*Like RTO is about how it would be to kiss an actual woman.
Let's not kid ourselves Boise would beat us.
NDSU would throttle Boise state.
Only one way to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndsubison1
I have said this before but will say it again because it falls into my answer for your question. I don't know if it is right, but it is my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDbison
I am in the camp that wants to move forward, when the time is right. To me, the time is right when the P5 and G5 go through a major shakeup. It will happen, it is just a matter of when. The reason why you wait is because any move is going to require a lot of money. I do think you get into full fundraising mode now with the goal to start building endowment funds to finance the entire future. If we move now, we are going to have to put up the $6-7M a year right away with no guarantee that is the home we will be at in 5 years. We wait until the shakeup, we move once. We move twice and it will require needing big money again. If the ultimate goal is a P5 conference with other "football" schools, I don't think moving into a G5 conference now does anything but eat up resources with no guarantee or advantage. Unless the shakeup means there is a movement towards a P6, which doesn't seem to be the case. The P5 won't want Wyoming, they will just cherry pick G5 programs to round out their new division. If our goal is the second tier, then the G5 will actually migrate more towards our model then the other way around. They won't try to compete with the P5 conferences with scholarships and all that, they will look at a way to build a 75 scholarship model (as an example) to make football more affordable for their schools. The FCS model will already have everything the G5 level would want in terms of commitment, playoffs, and other features they don't have to rebuild. The bottom feeders in FCS want to get out of scholarships all together or at least move to a lesser commitment model. The second tier becomes the top half of FCS and the remaining G5 schools. NDSU doesn't have to blow their wad getting somewhere they will be anyways.
The forward thinking has always been NDSU will be no worse than the second tier. The final shakeup will create those opportunities without breaking the bank. The Big 12 has already acknowledged they have to make changes to remain relevant. This will involve G5 schools. G5 schools remaining will have to reorganize to rebuild their brand as a viable football division. So we end up with FCS1 and FCS2? The P5 is already splitting out, they just need that final push of adding more schools to a couple of conferences to make it even across the board as far as numbers. We will be in the new FCS2 with remaining G5 programs with a system ripe for new TV deals, new conference affiliations, and hopefully less scheduling issues. Pre-conference season OOC ESPN sponsored matchups or maybe this is the opportunity for FS1 to become the flagship for the second tier of college football. We become part of a new all sports Midwest Conference. Lastly, we see better football competition across the board while further developing natural rivalries and every sport wins. If this isn't close to the vision, something is wrong.
Bowl games would have a better chance of a different opponent every year. Just sayin.Quote:
Originally Posted by TransAmBison
I don't disagree with what you are saying, but at the same time sitting around waiting sucks. How many years will it take for the football subdivision thing to get settled? Also, where are things going with a Fargodome expansion or alternate facility in future? All this status quo means is the program has peaked and stagnation will prevail. Just don't see how NDSU football can grow with all the constraints on the gameday facilities, the subdivision status and lack of any plans to have regional TV coverage every week. With some effort regional TV coverage is the only thing that could possibly get better in the next 5 years (i.e. contract with Fox Sports North). The Montana ESPN game is a one off and then after 2016 with no FBS games our national coverage will be limited to late in the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by td577
One final comment........what is NDSU doing to keep things rolling and continue to have the national media take notice of FCS and NDSU? Seems to me the lack of attention given to the 4peat shows the media has already grown tired of our story since NDSU is only FCS. And please don't give the we need to focus on basketball crap. Basketball at NDSU has one tenth the interest and following, and this thread is about FBS football.
Bowl games: 1 game per year, possible different opponent, less dramaQuote:
Originally Posted by SDbison
Playoffs: 4-5 possible games per year, possible different opponents (or create playoff rival teams), TONS of drama.
I'm in the camp of staying where there's playoffs. The odds of facing the same teams year in and year out in the playoffs is marginal. This year was an oddity if you ask me. But they were all very solid teams with great games.
The disposable income for a lot of people in our fanbase is changing drastically as we speak. Anybody directly, or indirectly, involved in production agriculture is going to imitate a Rottweiler hitting the end of his chain. So, if you grow crops or sell stuff to people who do with compensation based on sales, you won't be spending MORE on fun things.
Ahh, yes, and I just received a complimentary call from TM yesterday. The wife and I have been discussing allocations for our charitable contribution's this coming year. "TIMING"Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernBison
So what do the P-5 teams do when they have supposedly reached their peak? They have no place to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndsubison1
It would vary by season Imo, but we'd likely lose this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony
Check neg repQuote:
Originally Posted by ndsubison1
It'd be a good game. Boise ain't no slouch. Especially the 2nd half of the season. But I'd go with ndsubison1.
http://s.quickmeme.com/img/82/823601...649c96247d.jpg
No discussion or new thread on newly approved rule to allow payments to athletes? I'd provide more info/links, but on IPhone. It was approved late last week as I understand. NDSU will have to do it to stay competitive, regardless of level we are at--and to all athletes in main sports IMO.
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I agree. I also think the athletic department is kind of between a rock and a hard place right now with future uncertainty. I don't think they want to go asking for money twice.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDbison
I do think having a two tiered approach to the problem should be announced. With the completion of the SHAC, there should be an announcement there will be a strategy developed to upgrade the dome or the next facility to meet demand of remaining in a relevant tier of college football. That would coincide with the shakeout of college football and the preparation to fluidly move into the tier of football that best suits Bison football. So instead of looking like it is a wait and see approach, it would be a proactive approach to a productive future. In the meantime, the second tier of the project is positioning the athletic department to jump at the opportunity to move towards the next level. We should be seeking active partners interested in seeking a similar future and having them on board with being prepared for the next step. If the next step is a collaboration of FCS and the remaining G5 schools, I do think our next step really does have to include an all sports conference once and for all as our next conference move better be our last for a long time.
We can simultaneously prepare for a future of bigger and better things while waiting for college football to realign. It minimizes the risk and the potential double investment disaster.
Matt Larsen was on kfgo and talking about this. Below is the podcast link.
He said we are talking around 3500 each student but schools choose.
Don't have to pay all sports.
I see schools like uni having a tough time financially. If we begin to do this they might have to play 3 FBS schools :)
http://kfgo.com/podcasts/mike-mcfeel...en-01-21-2015/