A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Perhaps. I just don't get why a few want to harp on the non-realistic options now when the door may be opening for a good path.
Its been pretty clear, and reported what the conferences/conditions we need for a move are. I'm good with it.

Now, just have to see how this all plays out.
This was never going to happen fast enough to please everyone. We don't control the timing.

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https://media.tenor.com/v0cBeb_yBgUA...rs-titanic.gif

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Perhaps. I just don't get why a few want to harp on the non-realistic options now when the door may be opening for a good path.
Its been pretty clear, and reported what the conferences/conditions we need for a move are. I'm good with it.

Now, just have to see how this all plays out.
This was never going to happen fast enough to please everyone. We don't control the timing.

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You may end up right and you may end up wrong. Waiting for a better path is subjective. If I have harped previously it was on the fact that there seemed to be absolutely no acknowledgement from NDSU that there was growing apathetic fan sentiment. In my opinion, they have at least acknowledged that and seem to be making a more proactive effort to explore their options. I may wish personally for them to push more aggressively but I also understand that it may not matter so I am not sweating that stuff right now. I'm ok with the fact that I believe they are trying. Personally, I also get frustrated with the sentiment from you and others that CUSA is this significant step down from the MVFC. Comparing just the football side between the two, there would be pros and cons to both. CUSA would be short term pain for potential long term gain (if you believe we could parlay it into something better down the road). MVFC would be short term gain for potential long term pain (if you believe that the fan apathy continues). There is no easy answer here but I do lean towards the thinking that our time to sit back and wait is over and we need to be a bit more aggressive (not desperate) in our pursuit. You feel a bit different than me. So be it.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

You may end up right and you may end up wrong. Waiting for a better path is subjective. If I have harped previously it was on the fact that there seemed to be absolutely no acknowledgement from NDSU that there was growing apathetic fan sentiment. In my opinion, they have at least acknowledged that and seem to be making a more proactive effort to explore their options. I may wish personally for them to push more aggressively but I also understand that it may not matter so I am not sweating that stuff right now. I'm ok with the fact that I believe they are trying. Personally, I also get frustrated with the sentiment from you and others that CUSA is this significant step down from the MVFC. Comparing just the football side between the two, there would be pros and cons to both. CUSA would be short term pain for potential long term gain (if you believe we could parlay it into something better down the road). MVFC would be short term gain for potential long term pain (if you believe that the fan apathy continues). There is no easy answer here but I do lean towards the thinking that our time to sit back and wait is over and we need to be a bit more aggressive (not desperate) in our pursuit. You feel a bit different than me. So be it.

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Sums up my stance very well. And a lot of fans I know in my generation.

none of the above...wyoming fan

It's hard to believe people still look at CUSA as a good thing. That would have been an absolute disaster.
Less than half our media deal.
Massively increased travel costs.
Leaving ALL our rivals behind, which hurts attendance.
Laughing stock conference that everyone is trying to get out of.
0% chance at a CFP berth due to crappy SOS.

But hey, you can brag to your bar friends that we're FBS in name only. I guess there's that.
Ever notice that the rumors about MWC adds don't include ANY of the CUSA adds but do include Dakotas and Montanas? This idea that you need to be any FBS to be a decent FBS is total crap.

Taper.

dude. the longer we stay fcs, the longer we get sucked into the vortex and remain in NCC 2.0 or worse yet. add murray state, st thomas freakin lindenwood, etc...

the FATIGUE is upon us, started 2 years ago and last year reared its ugly head completely. staying put takes ndsu trajectory only 1 way. many of us have the vision..... and wanted this in 2014 and 2017:facepalm::facepalm:

AAC or MWC

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Originally Posted by Professorbum

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.

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We have an aging fanbase that likes the FCS, the MVFC and Frisco....that is part of the problem and it makes things very comfortable for our administration. Our fanbase has warped views on how good the FCS and MVFC are. Some treat the MVFC like it is the SEC when it is really just a collection of basketball schools that somewhat care about football while the FCS is mostly schools that don't even really care at all or don't have the resources to even try to do anything more than just have a football team.

what ends all this FBS/FCS bullcrap is my manifesto....all D1 football...no varsity and jr varsity...you win...you win it all

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Originally Posted by taper

It's hard to believe people still look at CUSA as a good thing. That would have been an absolute disaster.
Less than half our media deal.
Massively increased travel costs.
Leaving ALL our rivals behind, which hurts attendance.
Laughing stock conference that everyone is trying to get out of.
0% chance at a CFP berth due to crappy SOS.

But hey, you can brag to your bar friends that we're FBS in name only. I guess there's that.
Ever notice that the rumors about MWC adds don't include ANY of the CUSA adds but do include Dakotas and Montanas? This idea that you need to be any FBS to be a decent FBS is total crap.

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It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

It’s hard to believe that some deny that NDSU doesn’t belong in the FCS. WIU left the MVFC/Summit because NDSU raised the bar for budgets especially for football and the other 3 Dakotas are chasing them. We spend like a G5 school. We don’t belong here and it’s not good for anyone. Not for NDSU and not for the rest of the FCS.

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Don't think anyone would argue with a MWC or AAC move, and thats what we seem to be interested in.
Its looking likely there will be slots there, just the PAC-4 and other conferences have to figure things out. Personally, I'd be ok with MAC as well, and think we'd have a shot, but maybe the money doesn't work. Bus leagues are generally that way to save money.

CUSA would be a competitive downgrade, literally. Sagarin ratings make that clear. It was the right call for NDSU to say no to that trainwreck.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Don't think anyone would argue with a MWC or AAC move, and thats what we seem to be interested in.
Its looking likely there will be slots there, just the PAC-4 and other conferences have to figure things out. Personally, I'd be ok with MAC as well, and think we'd have a shot, but maybe the money doesn't work. Bus leagues are generally that way to save money.

CUSA would be a competitive downgrade, literally. Sagarin ratings make that clear. It was the right call for NDSU to say no to that trainwreck.

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If a better spot opens up in the next few years, yes. If NDSU remains in the FCS for the next decade or more, then I disagree. I guess we’ll see. I hope you’re right because I do agree that MWC or AAC are better options.

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Originally Posted by Professorbum

Hoping for stars to align is not a plan. Same ol' back-footed, "see how things shake out" approach to FBS as always. What we've always needed, and have always lacked, is a will to go to FBS come hell or high water because we belong there. And have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C to get there. And then go after each plan one by one until we are in FBS. This has never been our mentality.

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The plan has always been to take the opportunity to move up to the FBS if an invite comes, I’m sure we have always been prepared to accept an invite if the right one comes. Sad thing is we haven’t gotten any invite. Hard to blame the administration when it’s really out of their hands. CUSA is the only thing we could have tried to jump at and instead we are are in the FCS waiting for the door to open.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

My interpretation of things is that Cook is more open to FBS than Bresciani ever was. I think that along with the recent FCS to FBS move ups, the response to Covid from the larger FCS and the continuing decline in fan engagement has made staying in the FCS more risky for NDSU. That is what I think is driving their more public openness to the prospect of moving to FBS. I would agree that ML doesn't deserve the entirety of criticism that he gets. It very well could be that he has been banging the FBS drum behind the scenes and has been met with opposition by higher ups. If that was the case though I would think he would have become very frustrated and likely not want to remain in a position where he feels his opinions regarding the Ath. Dept. don't carry the weight he would like. It is probably more realistic that he shared similar views to the higher ups and didn't think FBS was the right move until recently. I don't know, just speculating.

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Anyone who is president right now would be open to moving to the FBS as they would see that the program is slowly fading way due to “bison fatigue”. The cash cow is dying and you can’t just let that happen without changes.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

I think there is (1) FBS at any cost. I think the rest have differing levels of cost that they would support.

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You could count me but my stakes are different so I don't think I should count.

MOUNTAIN WEST OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!

READ THEIR STATEMENT 45 MIN AGO NDSU ADMIN BETTER BE CALLING THEM ASAP

https://www.facebook.com/10006459079...ibextid=Nif5oz

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

MOUNTAIN WEST OPEN FOR BUSINESS!!

READ THEIR STATEMENT 45 MIN AGO NDSU ADMIN BETTER BE CALLING THEM ASAP

https://www.facebook.com/10006459079...ibextid=Nif5oz

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Yeah Washington State and Oregon State.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Yeah Washington State and Oregon State.

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I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

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but even then MWC can add more to get to 16 teams

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

but even then MWC can add more to get to 16 teams

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Right. It's possible, maybe not likely, the MWC has decided that with all this chaos you're either growing or dying and they want to add for strength in numbers.

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

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It’s just classic “what I want to happen” thinking so people do whatever they can to rationalize it.

Rubethought

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

It’s just classic “what I want to happen” thinking so people do whatever they can to rationalize it.

Rubethought

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Agree

It's similar to the argument that the MVFC can just 'move up'. Would be wonderful, but ...

If the PAC dies, the overwhelming odds are that there are then 9 FBS conferences instead of 10 so that each can make more money off the new CFP

Money is driving all this folks, and as much as we wish it wasn't, it ain't gonna stop

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

I agree that is the most likely target but $4m/yr is going to be a very tough pill to swallow.

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I don't care what Oregon State and Wazzu have to swallow..The MW didn't break up the Pac. Those folks did it to themselves.

However, a couple of points. We don't know if any of the Pac 4 has any interest in joining the MW.

There could be a merger of sorts but that is really only attractive if Stanford is in the mix

In the unlikely event of a merger, it would almost certainly be under the Pac brand and the MW would dissolve.

To dissolve it would take 9 votes and it seems unlikely that would happen. The Pac people surely don't want all of the MW schools. Nobody is going to vote themselves out of a conference.

Stanford and Cal are trying to figure something out and they could ride out independence for football and house their other sports somewhere.

Wazzu and OSU have a tougher row to hoe. The MW would happily offer them a home but only...and this is a big only..CBS and Fox agree to open up the tv contract to pay for those 2 schools.

This is something they wouldn't do when the MW was seeking to add, SMU Rice Tulsa and UTSA. The problem for the Pac 2 is in reality they are 2 small market schools in the eyes of providers.

College sports on their best days was unseemly as hell..Now it is rapidly moving towards sordid. What a mess.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

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I think the idea is that P5 (or 3 or 4) will branch themselves off and form their own system and give the G5 no other choice. Which at this rate, seems like a realistic scenario.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

I think the idea is that P5 (or 3 or 4) will branch themselves off and form their own system and give the G5 no other choice. Which at this rate, seems like a realistic scenario.

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Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

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I think the B12 is positioning itself pretty well to remain in the conversation. I think a P4 system is more likely at this point. Curious what happens to the expanded 12-team CFP if there are only 4 conferences. Seems like you could whittle it back down to a 4-team playoff of the 4 conference champs. I would love that.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Obviously that is the "idea" - Show me any evidence that it is actually moving that way

You have the SEC/B1G as the P2, sure
Then there are (still) 3 other "power" conferences
Most of those schools will not get into the P2, and the P2 will never willingly shed the NCAA banner (and the NCAA has no balls, apparently)

Sorry, but they will drag the G5 along, especially if they stop playing FCS (which seems much more likely and imminent than any hypothetical split)

You're just perpetuating the myth

I sure as hell hope we can stop talking about this when the season starts

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Perpetuating the myth. OK. I personally could care less what happens, just stating what seems to be the most obvious at this point. I could tell you a school that doesn't appear to be on anyone's list at the moment but it might hurt your feelers...

Sure looks like the big boys give a shit about the G5 at the moment, doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Complicating all of this is the message that people like Haley and Herder keep pushing – that G5 and top of FCS will merge into a new second tier
It's a cool idea, but ...

Show me one single piece of evidence that any G5 conference will willingly separate from the P5 at any point in the next decade
This thinking just offers fuel to the stay-FCS crowd, IMO

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Yeah, I am sick of it as well...the G5 has no use for the FCS, they can take what they want if they like but they don't need the FCS or the NCAA to start their own playoff. Outside of a handful of schools nobody in the FCS brings any value to them, most of the FCS is just dead weight.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Perpetuating the myth. OK. I personally could care less what happens, just stating what seems to be the most obvious at this point. I could tell you a school that doesn't appear to be on anyone's list at the moment but it might hurt your feelers...

Sure looks like the big boys give a shit about the G5 at the moment, doesn't it?

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Then why the fuck are you here, other than to shit on NDSU?

And no, you'll never hurt my feelings. At the end of the day, I will happily support NDSU wherever they reside

and you just contradicted yourself

Brandon Lang
Add Washington State, Oregon State, cal, and North Dakota State. Also could replace one pac 12 team for Montana University. I don't think Stanford will go to mountain west. They will probably go independent

Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school,................and NDSU.
I want to meet this guy haha!

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Then why the fuck are you here, other than to shit on NDSU?

And no, you'll never hurt my feelings. At the end of the day, I will happily support NDSU wherever they reside

and you just contradicted yourself

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Ohhhh the internet police. Let me know when I can or should post boss.

Shit on NDSU Lol...keep up the good fight, seems to be working great.

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Originally Posted by skunkapekiller

Brandon Lang
Add Washington State, Oregon State, cal, and North Dakota State. Also could replace one pac 12 team for Montana University. I don't think Stanford will go to mountain west. They will probably go independent

Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school, Pac 12 school,................and NDSU.
I want to meet this guy haha!

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Source linky ?

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Originally Posted by NDSUstudent

Yeah, I am sick of it as well...the G5 has no use for the FCS, they can take what they want if they like but they don't need the FCS or the NCAA to start their own playoff. Outside of a handful of schools nobody in the FCS brings any value to them, most of the FCS is just dead weight.

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They need FCS games for the easy wins to get them Bowl eligible.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

They need FCS games for the easy wins to get them Bowl eligible.

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There are dozens and dozens of easy wins amongst themselves in the G5


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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

There are dozens and dozens of easy wins amongst themselves in the G5


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Overall, not enough teams could reach the 6 win threshold though.

They had more Bowls than eligible teams last year, and had to give exemptions to a couple teams.
It would be much worse if they dropped the FCS games.

Appearance wise they don't want to put a bunch of 5-7 or worse teams in bowls.
There's 35 bowls, so they need 70 eligible 6-6 or better FBS teams. The math doesn't work without FCS games.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

Overall, not enough teams could reach the 6 win threshold though.

They had more Bowls than eligible teams last year, and had to give exemptions to a couple teams.
It would be much worse if they dropped the FCS games.

Appearance wise they don't want to put a bunch of 5-7 or worse teams in bowls.
There's 35 bowls, so they need 70 eligible 6-6 or better FBS teams. The math doesn't work without FCS games.

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If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.


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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

If this pretend break off of the P4 happens there is now way the bowl game structure, qualifiers, etc stay the same.


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It will change regardless

Why not invite the Pac-4 to the MFVC and kick out some of the bottom feeders in our conference? :biggrin:

Not sure if I saw it posted here but Stanford brass apparently told ESPN that they’d have a resolution for 2024 by the end of this week.

Then again I don’t put much stock into anyone from the PAC giving me a timeline