Sun Belt Expansion

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Originally Posted by tjbison

MVFC teams have no interest in putting money into football, we will eventually need to separate from them to advance FB....imo

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Do you even follow the MVFC? MSU and ISUr just finished huge renovations and UNI got a great video board. SIU opened a new stadium in 2010. SDSU is working on a new one. Even ISUb is looking to build a new stadium.

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Originally Posted by taper

Do you even follow the MVFC? MSU and ISUr just finished huge renovations and UNI got a great video board. SIU opened a new stadium in 2010. SDSU is working on a new one. Even ISUb is looking to build a new stadium.

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None are interested in the next level.....they are basketball schools and don't want to tip the apple cart of the MVC, you know that conference they are in that is a Basketball conference, there are reasons the MVC is totally against adding more public universities that sponsor FB

Missouri St only one thinking a bit, Ilino is St has a far fetched hope the Big 10 would take them

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Originally Posted by westnodak93bison

Is there an article/study etc showing travel cost comparisons between sunbelt members? I find it hard to believe traveling from Georgia Southern to Texas State or Idaho would be significantly more than Georgia Southern to NDSU. If you fly is the cost really that different? IMHO the Sunbelt teams in general would shit their britches and buckle up if NDSU joined the conference. Think about it. What bottom level FBS conference would want NDSU?

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Just glancing on the map, the Sun Belt, minus Idaho in football, doesn't look like that much different of a footprint than the Missouri Valley.

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Originally Posted by tjbison

Georgia southern is probably going to dominate the Sun Belt for some time, adding ccu and or EKU does zero to lift the profile, just keeps them viable after the next round of shifts

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It expands them into two states television market-wise while not exponentially expanding their travel footprint.

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Originally Posted by tjbison

None are interested in the next level.....they are basketball schools and don't want to tip the apple cart of the MVC, you know that conference they are in that is a Basketball conference, there are reasons the MVC is totally against adding more public universities that sponsor FB

Missouri St only one thinking a bit, Ilino is St has a far fetched hope the Big 10 would take them

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Illinois State is not even close to the Big 10. Big 10 is more concerned with academics.

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Originally Posted by EndZoneQB

Illinois State is not even close to the Big 10. Big 10 is more concerned with academics.

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No doubt, and they don't stand a chance.

And I'm sure their administration knows but some fans thought that legislature talk was going to happen where they were going to lobby getting another Illinois school in.

Other than that not another school in mvc/mvfc is going to focus on Football over Basketball

I could be completely wrong but all signs point to it as they would rather go to Alabama to UAB (now that they don't have FB) than even consider schools with FB

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by td577

Just glancing on the map, the Sun Belt, minus Idaho in football, doesn't look like that much different of a footprint than the Missouri Valley.

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I use to be opposed to the Sunbelt idea but now I think the games with GA Sou, Appy and a couple non-con FBS games (possibly vs P5) would be a lot of fun

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Originally Posted by tjbison

Georgia southern is probably going to dominate the Sun Belt for some time, adding ccu and or EKU does zero to lift the profile, just keeps them viable after the next round of shifts

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Yeah. They are just filler. No name, brand, fan base or tradition. Decent program though

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Path to Championship = Easier
Bottom line is teams like Appalachian and Georgia Southern were tougher competition than replacement perennial playoff teams like Coastal Carolina. If they leave we get 3rd tier replacement playoff teams to beat.

That being said, I enjoy good competition

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Less competition affects the quality of recruits we bring in which affects the product on the field...its all a bunch of dominoes!

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Originally Posted by ZHerd

I use to be opposed to the Sunbelt idea but now I think the games with GA Sou, Appy and a couple non-con FBS games (possibly vs P5) would be a lot of fun

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I think it would be just fine.....dammit You have to a have an invite you BLEEP BLEEP idiots. Happy to get that comment out of the way!

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

Less competition affects the quality of recruits we bring in which affects the product on the field...its all a bunch of dominoes!

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Possibly if your talking about recruits who are looking forward to payback vs teams who passed them over. I know the Gophers were a good motivational tool for Bohl.

Now if your recruiting kids who want a national championship ring, not sure if they care if it's Towson or Sam Houston or Georgia Southern or Coastal Carolina

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Possibly if your talking about recruits who are looking forward to payback vs teams who passed them over. I know the Gophers were a good motivational tool for Bohl.

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I doubt we out dual FBS teams for Kids if we are relegated to playing cream-puff FCS teams....meaning all of the good teams jumped ship. I am not saying that will happen, but it seems every year we hear that at least one playoff team is toying with the idea.

Also dont forget the the B1G wont play FCS anymore. However, they will play Sunbelt teams so if you want to play B1G then you better go FBS.

this MAKBison guy better have a newsletter I can subscribe to.

Nail on head.

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

I think it would be just fine.....dammit You have to a have an invite you BLEEP BLEEP idiots. Happy to get that comment out of the way!

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I want to see the shake up completed before any move because the chips should fall where they are supposed to. That being said, there are no schools out there that have received an invite that didn't express interest in moving up. It doesn't just magically appear. It does seem a school has to ask for an invite. I am not saying NDSU isn't working this behind the scenes, but the Georgia Southerns and the App States were actively campaigning to move up before they moved up.

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Originally Posted by td577

I want to see the shake up completed before any move because the chips should fall where they are supposed to. That being said, there are no schools out there that have received an invite that didn't express interest in moving up. It doesn't just magically appear. It does seem a school has to ask for an invite. I am not saying NDSU isn't working this behind the scenes, but the Georgia Southerns and the App States were actively campaigning to move up before they moved up.

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I want to know we are letting anyone and everyone be aware we are willing and ready to jump BEFORE said shakeup.....we will get the financial side covered

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

I doubt we out dual FBS teams for Kids if we are relegated to playing cream-puff FCS teams....meaning all of the good teams jumped ship. I am not saying that will happen, but it seems every year we hear that at least one playoff team is toying with the idea.

Also dont forget the the B1G wont play FCS anymore. However, they will play Sunbelt teams so if you want to play B1G then you better go FBS.

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in all fairness, only a handful of players from our 4 peat had FBS offers and most of them were small time FBS. Were not going to win those battles no matter where we go and our current recruiting works just fine. Turner, Marcus, Crockett, Ojuri, Dudzik, Heagle, Emmanuel, Olson, LJ, Haeg, Beck, Vraa, CJ Smith, Jensen, and pretty much every player had zero FBS offers. We beat out other FCS teams for most of these guys and they won't be playing Big Ten teams either. we will be fine no matter what. Actually despite our recent success in recruiting, we really don't need to reinvent the wheel.

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Originally Posted by tjbison

I want to know we are letting anyone and everyone be aware we are willing and ready to jump BEFORE said shakeup.....we will get the financial side covered

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That is very fair. It should be out there we are interested in moving up, if we are interested in moving up. Just no moving anywhere before the dust settles unless it is an offer we can't refuse, like the Big 12 gets mad at the rest of the world and says screw you we are inviting NDSU because the rest of you suck.

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

in all fairness, only a handful of players from our 4 peat had FBS offers and most of them were small time FBS. Were not going to win those battles no matter where we go and our current recruiting works just fine. Turner, Marcus, Crockett, Ojuri, Dudzik, Heagle, Emmanuel, Olson, LJ, Haeg, Beck, Vraa, CJ Smith, Jensen, and pretty much every player had zero FBS offers. We beat out other FCS teams for most of these guys and they won't be playing Big Ten teams either. we will be fine no matter what. Actually despite our recent success in recruiting, we really don't need to reinvent the wheel.

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I agree with this. The key to any long term success is still going to be finding the 4 or 5 year commitments that are flying under the FBS radar because of some issue that can be developed when they get here. On top of that, they are expected to contribute while they are developing. Combine that with an obvious mandate these young men will have the character to handle this kind of pressure, it has been very successful. The ultimate icing is the number of academic all-conference or all-Americans every year. Their approach is working and would work with the same guys at the next level, just a few more of them.

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Originally Posted by td577

I agree with this. The key to any long term success is still going to be finding the 4 or 5 year commitments that are flying under the FBS radar because of some issue that can be developed when they get here. On top of that, they are expected to contribute while they are developing. Combine that with an obvious mandate these young men will have the character to handle this kind of pressure, it has been very successful. The ultimate icing is the number of academic all-conference or all-Americans every year. Their approach is working and would work with the same guys at the next level, just a few more of them.

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Yep. We will never get a 6-7, 300+ lb 4 star oline man out of high school. All these kids go Big10. (Except for the ND kids) We have to develop our own 4 star 6-7 300 lb by finding skinny guys like Lechler or Haeg. The day we get away from that were screwed. I'm more concerned about winning the battles vs the UNIs, ISU's, and thr Dakota schools. If we win those battles like we've done over the last decade, we will be successful.

I'm more concerned about keeping the coaching staff, Kramer, and thr whole system in place. The system we have is perfect. ND, SD, MN, WI, and Nebraska with the occasional warm weather skill player

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Originally Posted by td577

That is very fair. It should be out there we are interested in moving up, if we are interested in moving up. Just no moving anywhere before the dust settles unless it is an offer we can't refuse, like the Big 12 gets mad at the rest of the world and says screw you we are inviting NDSU because the rest of you suck.

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Don't expect to hear from anything resembling official sources that NDSU is interested in moving up until shortly before it happens. I'm getting convinced that NDSU will make the FBS move within five years, and that it will likely be a FB-only move to the SBC or MAC. In any case, I see three basic scenarios in the near future: 1. We stay FCS; 2. We go FBS but stay in the Summit for everything else; 3. We get a full invite to an FBS conference. In two of those three scenarios, we need the Summit to stay strong.

If NDSU comes out publicly that FBS is in the plans, the Summit takes a gut shot. People will start assuming that if NDSU is doing it, then SDSU must be seriously considering it. And if SDSU is considering it, then USD must be thinking about it. Those are three core Summit members. That perception will make Denver accelerate plans to get into the WCC or BW by any means necessary. ORU will reconsider its SLC move(again) or make a massive push for the MVC. IUPUI and IPFW will put on a full court press for the HL. In effect, the Summit will rip itself apart. The Summit is stable for the moment, perhaps the most stable it's been in two decades, but we are the lynch pin that could rip it apart.

If/when NDSU seriously considers an FBS move, it is in our best interests to keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible. We could really use a 10th school for the Summit, and that doesn't happen if everyone thinks we've got one foot out the door. I know we all like to know everything that's going on, but I don't think that's the best choice in this particular case. I think contact between NDSU and FBS commissioners, presidents and ADs will be kept on the down low at NDSU's request. So we shouldn't assume that just because we aren't hearing about means it isn't happening.

JMO

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Don't expect to hear from anything resembling official sources that NDSU is interested in moving up until shortly before it happens. I'm getting convinced that NDSU will make the FBS move within five years, and that it will likely be a FB-only move to the SBC or MAC. In any case, I see three basic scenarios in the near future: 1. We stay FCS; 2. We go FBS but stay in the Summit for everything else; 3. We get a full invite to an FBS conference. In two of those three scenarios, we need the Summit to stay strong.

If NDSU comes out publicly that FBS is in the plans, the Summit takes a gut shot. People will start assuming that if NDSU is doing it, then SDSU must be seriously considering it. And if SDSU is considering it, then USD must be thinking about it. Those are three core Summit members. That perception will make Denver accelerate plans to get into the WCC or BW by any means necessary. ORU will reconsider its SLC move(again) or make a massive push for the MVC. IUPUI and IPFW will put on a full court press for the HL. In effect, the Summit will rip itself apart. The Summit is stable for the moment, perhaps the most stable it's been in two decades, but we are the lynch pin that could rip it apart.

If/when NDSU seriously considers an FBS move, it is in our best interests to keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible. We could really use a 10th school for the Summit, and that doesn't happen if everyone thinks we've got one foot out the door. I know we all like to know everything that's going on, but I don't think that's the best choice in this particular case. I think contact between NDSU and FBS commissioners, presidents and ADs will be kept on the down low at NDSU's request. So we shouldn't assume that just because we aren't hearing about means it isn't happening.

JMO

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Do you even have the text bro?

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

So we shouldn't assume that just because we aren't hearing about means it isn't happening.

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We are through the looking glass, people.

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Originally Posted by NDB2

We are through the looking glass, people.

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I'm calling you Alice from now on.

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Yep. We will never get a 6-7, 300+ lb 4 star oline man out of high school. All these kids go Big10. (Except for the ND kids) We have to develop our own 4 star 6-7 300 lb by finding skinny guys like Lechler or Haeg. The day we get away from that were screwed. I'm more concerned about winning the battles vs the UNIs, ISU's, and thr Dakota schools. If we win those battles like we've done over the last decade, we will be successful.

I'm more concerned about keeping the coaching staff, Kramer, and thr whole system in place. The system we have is perfect. ND, SD, MN, WI, and Nebraska with the occasional warm weather skill player

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Its hard to say now cause we just do not know, but on paper we seem to recruiting a higher degree of player....Winning out against FBS teams, 2 star QBs etc. Of course we should be able to land a higher quality of player ( on paper of course) as success breads success....that is until the the allure of FBS siphons off the top teams of the FCS. Then what....??? from my perspective, if we wait too long we will be nothing but a D2 team that should have jumped....da juve Sure it would be great for the P5 to shakeout and jump bla bla bla; however, we may not have that luxury. Thus my question, how many of the playoff teams (FCS Power teams) need to jump before we do?

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Originally Posted by Hammersmith

Don't expect to hear from anything resembling official sources that NDSU is interested in moving up until shortly before it happens. I'm getting convinced that NDSU will make the FBS move within five years, and that it will likely be a FB-only move to the SBC or MAC. In any case, I see three basic scenarios in the near future: 1. We stay FCS; 2. We go FBS but stay in the Summit for everything else; 3. We get a full invite to an FBS conference. In two of those three scenarios, we need the Summit to stay strong.

If NDSU comes out publicly that FBS is in the plans, the Summit takes a gut shot. People will start assuming that if NDSU is doing it, then SDSU must be seriously considering it. And if SDSU is considering it, then USD must be thinking about it. Those are three core Summit members. That perception will make Denver accelerate plans to get into the WCC or BW by any means necessary. ORU will reconsider its SLC move(again) or make a massive push for the MVC. IUPUI and IPFW will put on a full court press for the HL. In effect, the Summit will rip itself apart. The Summit is stable for the moment, perhaps the most stable it's been in two decades, but we are the lynch pin that could rip it apart.

If/when NDSU seriously considers an FBS move, it is in our best interests to keep it as quiet as possible for as long as possible. We could really use a 10th school for the Summit, and that doesn't happen if everyone thinks we've got one foot out the door. I know we all like to know everything that's going on, but I don't think that's the best choice in this particular case. I think contact between NDSU and FBS commissioners, presidents and ADs will be kept on the down low at NDSU's request. So we shouldn't assume that just because we aren't hearing about means it isn't happening.

JMO

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I would be a beer that this is a very good observation and more than likely occurring or will occur.

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

Its hard to say now cause we just do not know, but on paper we seem to recruiting a higher degree of player....Winning out against FBS teams, 2 star QBs etc. Of course we should be able to land a higher quality of player ( on paper of course) as success breads success....that is until the the allure of FBS siphons off the top teams of the FCS. Then what....??? from my perspective, if we wait too long we will be nothing but a D2 team that should have jumped....da juve Sure it would be great for the P5 to shakeout and jump bla bla bla; however, we may not have that luxury. Thus my question, how many of the playoff teams (FCS Power teams) need to jump before we do?

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All depends on who gets an invite, and if we are given an invite as well. Nothing happens without it.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

All depends on who gets an invite, and if we are given an invite as well. Nothing happens without it.

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And there it is.....LOL! See post 90

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

And there it is.....LOL! See post 90

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Don't know why they don't understand that simple concept. For some reason they think NDSU can just wave the magic wand and announce we are moving up and it happens.
You can only beat the peasants over the head so long. If they believe the earth is flat their isn't anything we can do to change their thought.

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

Its hard to say now cause we just do not know, but on paper we seem to recruiting a higher degree of player....Winning out against FBS teams, 2 star QBs etc. Of course we should be able to land a higher quality of player ( on paper of course) as success breads success....that is until the the allure of FBS siphons off the top teams of the FCS. Then what....??? from my perspective, if we wait too long we will be nothing but a D2 team that should have jumped....da juve Sure it would be great for the P5 to shakeout and jump bla bla bla; however, we may not have that luxury. Thus my question, how many of the playoff teams (FCS Power teams) need to jump before we do?

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Patience is a virtue. Personally I would much rather stay in the MVC if the whole conference jumps when the breakup happens. Then what? We're sitting in the Sunbelt? Yeah its slightly better but to me if the MVFC is perfect for everything with great rivals.

I just don't think the recruits care about the top fcs teams leaving because even the top teams are no name teams. Heck were still border line no name. Im impressed by the last few classes but really they haven't proven anything yet. The guys we've gotten with all these great offers haven't always panned out either. Actually it seems like more often than not they get beat out by a no name under recruited midwest kid who out works them.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Don't know why they don't understand that simple concept. For some reason they think NDSU can just wave the magic wand and announce we are moving up and it happens.
You can only beat the peasants over the head so long. If they believe the earth is flat their isn't anything we can do to change their thought.

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There*.


We know that NDSU needs a conference extended and to join. Why can't that mean we voice our opinion and hope NDSU is showcasing to G5 conferences what they have to offer? It's like none of you want to make this a talking point at all because it's impossible to do anything without movement from the other side...or you just love where NDSU is at so much that after the 9 peat is done, you'll still think theres something to prove.

it's a serious issue, IMO. More than a lot of you want to care to think.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

There*.


We know that NDSU needs a conference extended and to join. Why can't that mean we voice our opinion and hope NDSU is showcasing to G5 conferences what they have to offer? It's like none of you want to make this a talking point at all because it's impossible to do anything without movement from the other side...or you just love where NDSU is at so much that after the 9 peat is done, you'll still think theres something to prove.

it's a serious issue, IMO. More than a lot of you want to care to think.

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So is the money required to be competitive at the next level I'd say minimum is $30 million a year. So where are you going to get an extra $10-12-15 million every year, and sustain that into the future. You can Jack ticket prices and teammaker dues at the cost of alienating some of the fan base? I don't think it will net as much as some of you think it will.

This isn't even considering the COA payments which will be even more necessary at FBS level.

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Originally Posted by 1998braves64

So is the money required to be competitive at the next level I'd say minimum is $30 million a year. So where are you going to get an extra $10-12-15 million every year, and sustain that into the future. You can Jack ticket prices and teammaker dues at the cost of alienating some of the fan base? I don't think it will net as much as some of you think it will.

This isn't even considering the COA payments which will be even more necessary at FBS level.

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The shac and recent basketball success is where the money lies at. We also use school funds at a much lower percentage than say the team from up north

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Originally Posted by 1998braves64

So is the money required to be competitive at the next level I'd say minimum is $30 million a year. So where are you going to get an extra $10-12-15 million every year, and sustain that into the future. You can Jack ticket prices and teammaker dues at the cost of alienating some of the fan base? I don't think it will net as much as some of you think it will.

This isn't even considering the COA payments which will be even more necessary at FBS level.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg-mozGsU

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Originally Posted by 1998braves64

So is the money required to be competitive at the next level I'd say minimum is $30 million a year. So where are you going to get an extra $10-12-15 million every year, and sustain that into the future. You can Jack ticket prices and teammaker dues at the cost of alienating some of the fan base? I don't think it will net as much as some of you think it will.

This isn't even considering the COA payments which will be even more necessary at FBS level.

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There is always some in the fan base who is in some level of discontent, so chasing that tail gets you nowhere. Not saying you blatantly go out and piss off your fanbase, but no matter what NDSU does, they can't make everybody happy.

As far as the money goes, if it were full membership (meaning all sports) into a conference not names the WAC, MAC, or Sun Belt, then the TV deals would offset the extra money needed considerably. The MAC, WAC, and Sun Belt are screwed that every time they look like they might have some good enough schools to leverage a TV deal, another conference comes along and poaches them.

I don't think NDSU brings a whole lot to the table when it comes to negotiating TV deals, so if they were in one of those conferences, the TV contracts aren't going to look much different. Outside the P5 conferences, most everyone else can negotiate local deals on their own. The one area where NDSU does bring a lot to the table, and I honestly just read about this and don't know how it all works out, is just by staying in the top 50 computer ranking-wise, they would certainly bring up the ranking of any conference they were in. Apparently, there is some math involved in figuring out playoff shares for conferences based on its ranking. Just a couple of spots could be worth a $1M.

I think with the growing disparity among the P5 and G5 conferences, a split is going to happen one way or another. The G5 conferences can't combine bottom priced TV contracts and expectations to spend like the big boys. It isn't worth it for one or two schools out of 90 to compete for a BCS bowl. So NDSU has already dropped to the third tier. Everything needs to shake out to see who is actually where. I don't think it is going to take an extra $30M tomorrow to compete on tomorrow's second tier. I think tomorrow's second tier will look a lot more like today's FCS. The tricky part to all of this is not getting stuck in FCS which is now the third tier. You have the P5, some schools trying to get into the P5, the G5, some schools wondering what G5 schools are moving up, and then the FCS which has schools wondering what to do because if they make considerable financial commitments today it might be for naught tomorrow.

Like Hammersmith said, you put it out there in back channels quietly that NDSU wants to be in whatever conference best fits them when everything starts getting shaken up. When the dust settles, hopefully NDSU is in the second tier, it isn't going to break the bank, and ESPN and CBS are all happy about some stability and starts dishing out serious money for Wednesday night games. That is our future. The one thing that will never change is that FCS is a basketball division. It will stay that way. We do need to be part of a football division at some point.

Don't disagree with much of that. Think you misunderstood my $30 million. That was an overall athletics amount not an amount to increase by. Anyway I am in the party that wants to see the p5 and g5 shakeup get settled before we lock in somewhere in FBS since there really isn't a G5 conference in our backyard. But NDSU does need the back channel as hammer smith put to make sure we have options when it happens. But that will not appease the main FBS crowd here... Since they want that public.
Sent from Win8 phone on a bullet train from Hillsboro.

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbWg-mozGsU

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Lolz......love that

Gabe...Well if its true that both NDSU and GSU offered GAEJ WALKER we can test your theory out. I suppose we can throw TYSHAUN INGRAM in theer as well bunch a bottom feeder FBS programs after him. As far as programs go I would say we are simila to GSU and most of the programs after TI. I would give GSU and the other teams the edge in recruiting because they are FBS. Of course I am not blind to the facts of geographic, playing time/ position and all the other considerations that must go into a decision. It will be interesting.

Georgia Southern completed a transition to FBS study, got student approval, then announced they were moving up, all before they had an invite from the Sun Belt. ...Just sayin'

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Originally Posted by DePereBisonFan

Georgia Southern completed a transition to FBS study, got student approval, then announced they were moving up, all before they had an invite from the Sun Belt. ...Just sayin'

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They started their study when the rules were they had to have attendance and scholarship numbers committed to move up, not an invite. In 2013, an invite was required. When they finalized their study and made the decision an invite came from the Sun Belt in 2013. I don't know at what point in their study if they knew they had to have an invite to complete the process, but in 2012 when they were finishing up all the commitments to move up the rules were different. NDSU could have moved up in 2012, as well. We were above the minimum attendance numbers and would have just had to commit to the scholarships. In 2012, 14 FCS schools had the minimum attendance numbers to move up with NDSU being the only MVFC school who could have done it. App State and Georgia Southern started their studies under those rules. Now, as we know, you need an invite to move up.

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Originally Posted by MAKBison

Gabe...Well if its true that both NDSU and GSU offered GAEJ WALKER we can test your theory out. I suppose we can throw TYSHAUN INGRAM in theer as well bunch a bottom feeder FBS programs after him. As far as programs go I would say we are simila to GSU and most of the programs after TI. I would give GSU and the other teams the edge in recruiting because they are FBS. Of course I am not blind to the facts of geographic, playing time/ position and all the other considerations that must go into a decision. It will be interesting.

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Prolly not a good measure.Kids from Florida.

Going from Florida to North Dakota isnt even in the same ballpark as Florida to Georgia. Infact Bruce Anderson was the first Florida player to my knowledge to choose ndsu over fbs guys.

A better test would be if a Minnesota kid chose Georgia Southern

Also gotta find out if they are offering stipends.