FBS move fans. Here's a good read

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by taper

Let's say the BCS broke off tomorrow and 2014 will have 3 levels of DI football. We're going to see an unprecedented conference shakeup. The left behind FBS schools are going to be pissed at the loss of revenue and perception of prestige from being top tier. The top schools will be begging to be accepted in the BCS, few if any will get in. Most if not all scholarship FCS conferences will want to be in the new mid-tier, someone(NCAA? ESPN?) will have to pick which make the cut. Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 max move up to leave a functioning FCS. CAA, MVFC, SoCon go, dropping a few schools. Big Sky breaks in half. Now we have 5 oversized former FBS conferences, 4 undersized former FCS, and a few FCS independents. It's going to take awhile for that to sort out and nobody will be happy for years. We will find a home though.

---

sounds like a good outline for a committee to hammer out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

The Orlando Sentinal and USA Today say that over half the athletic department budget is covered by student fees, almost $20 million dollars in 2012.

Taking $1.7 million out of student pockets to line those of a select few already rich guys on a noaccount bowl committee makes no sense to me.

---

but you get to pretend like you're in the big time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by herdmember

I'd love to know what Bohl's take on the subject is/was?

---

I agree, now that he has nothing to lose, he can talk about what he thinks about our goal of moving to FBS ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GOBISON123

I agree, now that he has nothing to lose, he can talk about what he thinks about our goal of moving to FBS ?

---

I would be shocked if he shared anything of substance publicly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisonaudit

I would be shocked if he shared anything of substance publicly.

---

:cool::cool:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

while it looks like a lot on paper, they still make a shit ton of money during the regular season.

---

Not unless we were in one of the BCS conferences, the mid or lower major conferences struggle to break even and quite a few lose money. Our stadium is a big issue, we would need to have at least a 30k stadium and fill it every week to get an offer to move up, otherwise we are one of if not the lowest attendance schools in the FBS.

This FBS talk is insane. Sorry we aren't traveling to the Beef O Brady bowl like we do to Frisco.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1st&TennBison

Not unless we were in one of the BCS conferences, the mid or lower major conferences struggle to break even and quite a few lose money. Our stadium is a big issue, we would need to have at least a 30k stadium and fill it every week to get an offer to move up, otherwise we are one of if not the lowest attendance schools in the FBS.

---

lakes has done studies and ran the numbers...NDSU in a down year would still have 20k+ fans. When NDSU is down, theres still potential of having a BCS school come to fargo for a game for a 2 for 1 contract.

that almost trumps anything FCS.

NDSU at its peak(we know what it is for FCS) but for FBS is unimaginable. NDSU would help any of the lower conferences out almost instantly for BCS relevance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

lakes has done studies and ran the numbers...NDSU in a down year would still have 20k+ fans. When NDSU is down, theres still potential of having a BCS school come to fargo for a game for a 2 for 1 contract.



that almost trumps anything FCS.



NDSU at its peak(we know what it is for FCS) but for FBS is unimaginable. NDSU would help any of the lower conferences out almost instantly for BCS relevance.

---

And we trust these statements why??
Wasn't it just a few short years ago we were having trouble filling the dome, due to mediocre play? Everyone wants a bison tickets now but how many will stick around and donate when things hit a rough patch and miss playoffs for a year or two (unforeseen at the moment but is possible)?
Again I love a move up when it is done sensibly and with financial wherewithal to support it, and that time has not arrived yet.

I trust Lakes research about as far as I can throw a truck. Guessing GT has way more actual experience and data to draw from than our favorite Bison boos... I mean supp... Fan. Love some of lakes enthusiasm but sometimes gets a bit extreme gold/yellow and green goggled.





Sent from my HTC8x Windows Phone.

I run into this question every time I start talking Bison football with any random football fan; almost immediately the convo turns to "The Jump." My counter is that NDSU has an awesome tradition and has been considered the best at every level they have played. At the same time, they have been considered the worst. I just dont feel NDSU has been considered the best at the D1 level long enough. These programs like App State and GSU have been really frickin good for a really frickin long time, at the D1 level. I understand NDSU is on the verge of something pretty special, but if you look back at the past winner of the National Championship there are MULTIPLE times when GSU shows up back to back...same as YSU. Those teams have been dominant in D1 and have now taken the next step.

If NDSU has a couple down years, with the option of playing in the playoffs eliminated, you wont be able to give away a sold out stadium. In 2009 there were attendance announcements of around 14000 but pry only 10000 in the stands. Although most FCS programs would drool over those numbers, they are absolutely not FBS worthy.

I love NDSU, and I love the fact that after all the knocking on the fact the ships' they have are from D2 there is dominance at the D1 level. However, it seems to me like making the move to conference with a bunch of irrelevant schools just isn't in the best interest of the program. Why not continue to dominate where we are? Why not establish a fan base that will still rock the dome when there is a down year? All of these things have to be taken into consideration if this move is going to be for real. You might say you will be tehre win or lose, but unfortunately that isnt the mindset of all those who say they are Bison fans. We have all seen that.

[QUOTE=G_Funky;815613]I run into this question every time I start talking Bison football with any random football fan; almost immediately the convo turns to "The Jump." My counter is that NDSU has an awesome tradition and has been considered the best at every level they have played.

North Dakota State University has succeeded at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. Why cannot they be successful at the next level, with success being defined as a top 20 team program? We are much more similar to Boise State than the dozens of programs that have failed moving up. And yes, Boise State is not even in a BCS conference.

[QUOTE=Strongman;815625]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G_Funky

I run into this question every time I start talking Bison football with any random football fan; almost immediately the convo turns to "The Jump." My counter is that NDSU has an awesome tradition and has been considered the best at every level they have played.

North Dakota State University has succeeded at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. Why cannot they be successful at the next level, with success being defined as a top 20 team program? We are much more similar to Boise State than the dozens of programs that have failed moving up. And yes, Boise State is not even in a BCS conference.

---

Nobody said they couldnt be successful. The point in question is RESOURCES to make such a move if an opening became available as we all know that you have to be invited to a conference to move up. Resources as in MONEY where is it going to come from? 2300 Team makers were responsible for approx 2.5-3 million dollars this last year. How much more do you think you can squeeze out of that group? And thats just for schollies.

Question for you--why do people like you keep asking the same questions when people keep giving you the answers to your questions. Do you think the answers are going to change if you keep asking the same question over and over again.

After 4 postseason appearances NDSU is 10th all-time in number of playoff wins and first in playoff win percentage. It's great what they've done in such a short time but when you watch the rest of the FCS playoffs on ESPN3.com and see 4,000 fans in the stands you really gotta wonder. NDSU's attendance in the quarterfinals was more than the other 3 games combined. I really see us at a spot where we are in between right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strongman

North Dakota State University has succeeded at EVERY SINGLE LEVEL. Why cannot they be successful at the next level, with success being defined as a top 20 team program? We are much more similar to Boise State than the dozens of programs that have failed moving up. And yes, Boise State is not even in a BCS conference.

---

Because NDSU and its supporters don't view being a top 20 team a success. The only way to prove you're the best is to win a national championship and that won't happen at the next level, mainly because we can't even afford to get in the next level let alone pay to be at the top of that level.

[QUOTE=56BISON73;815630]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strongman

Nobody said they couldnt be successful. The point in question is RESOURCES to make such a move if an opening became available as we all know that you have to be invited to a conference to move up. Resources as in MONEY where is it going to come from? 2300 Team makers were responsible for approx 2.5-3 million dollars this last year. How much more do you think you can squeeze out of that group? And thats just for schollies.

Question for you--why do people like you keep asking the same questions when people keep giving you the answers to your questions. Do you think the answers are going to change if you keep asking the same question over and over again.

---

Unfortunately there are blinders on many Bison fans who think just bc the university announces an invite to an FBS conference or announces the decision to move up, magically another 10 mil is going to show up in GT's office...just because the Bison have been dominant for a couple years, there HAS to be people willing to shell out their life's savings in the name of being considered FBS.

Funding is no doubt the key item here, but where do many of the other football powers get their funding? Lincoln, NE, Norman, OK, Tuscaloosa, AL, Iowa City, IA, Clemson, SC. etc,etc,etc. Seem to be ideal college football cities with no competition form pro sports. Seems like Fargo is similar to many of these areas.

I would guess our attendance numbers are around the same as most MAC/MWC teams and better than those going through bad years. Ball State was drawing 20-25k this year I believe but in their bad years they probably only get 5-10k/game. Any non-BCS conference would love to have a school and program like NDSU. The biggest issue for them is location. It would likely need to be a joint thing with one or more of the other Dakota schools. Success at one level is not a requirement for moving up. It's more about who you view as peer institutions.

The best thing for the Bison is to let this Big 5 conference thing shake out. GT is connected enough he's probably in tune with what is happening and knows how best to position NDSU. Enjoy the ride and let them take care of the hard stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bisondad

Funding is no doubt the key item here, but where do many of the other football powers get their funding? Lincoln, NE, Norman, OK, Tuscaloosa, AL, Iowa City, IA, Clemson, SC. etc,etc,etc. Seem to be ideal college football cities with no competition form pro sports. Seems like Fargo is similar to many of these areas.

---

HUGE fans bases. Huge donations and endowments. One of Iowas alums owns Kum and Go just for an example. Then you have TV revenue.

Well the TV revenue comes with moving up to a conference with a nice contract. But the tough part about that is there aren't enough households in ND for NDSU to be real attractive to a would be suitor. Add in that ND isn't really a hot bed of high school football talent, and its expensive to travel here. Ugh, is it so much to ask for what Boise St. has?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BisonNation11

Because NDSU and its supporters don't view being a top 20 team a success. The only way to prove you're the best is to win a national championship and that won't happen at the next level, mainly because we can't even afford to get in the next level let alone pay to be at the top of that level.

---

I disagree with that sentiment. Most progressive fans would rather be the #12 or #18 best team in the country than the national champion of small time college football. Under your rationale, the SEC and eight
select other teams should form their own league because nobody else can win a national championship.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strongman

I disagree with that sentiment. Most progressive fans would rather be the #12 or #18 best team in the country than the national champion of small time college football. Under your rationale, the SEC and eight
select other teams should form their own league because nobody else can win a national championship.

---

I disagree with your rational and back handed comments toward Bison fans.

Strongman is right, if you are a part of a conference you get millions to offset poor bowl attendances but isn't the culture of Ndsu fandom different than ucf north texas etc. ndsu is a different animal lets say ndsu lobby's mountain west and joins and goes to a bowl game in 3 years, I'm pretty sure they'd take 20,000 fans to Florida, Vegas, california for said game. Then you'd have a whole week of pep festa, instead of a fri/sat only, it'd be a weeklong celebration and on ESPN not espn2 you'd get nevada Boise st Wyoming Hawaii in the fargodome instead of Indiana state. Scheels makes $10million/year profit off ndsu have you been there the last month it's insane

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

Strongman is right, if you are a part of a conference you get millions to offset poor bowl attendances but isn't the culture of fandom different than ucf north texas etc. ndsu is a different animal lets say ndsu lobby's mountain west and joins and goes to a bowl game in 3 years, I'm pretty sure they'd take 20,000 fans to Florida, Vegas, california for said game. Then you'd have a whole week of pep festa, instead of a fri/sat only, it'd be a weeklong celebration and on ESPN not espn2

---

Its not a week long celebration. Ive been to the orange bowl it aint what people think it is. Regardless, if you get millions to offset poor attendance almost ALL schools LOSE money when they go to a bowl game. But you can pound your pud to make yourself feel better about your fandom when you tell others that we went to a bowl game. Yeah which one out of the 35 bowls? which means 70 teams out of 119 go to a bowl game. Yeah makes you proud to make that field doesnt it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

Strongman is right, if you are a part of a conference you get millions to offset poor bowl attendances but isn't the culture of Ndsu fandom different than ucf north texas etc. ndsu is a different animal lets say ndsu lobby's mountain west and joins and goes to a bowl game in 3 years, I'm pretty sure they'd take 20,000 fans to Florida, Vegas, california for said game. Then you'd have a whole week of pep festa, instead of a fri/sat only, it'd be a weeklong celebration and on ESPN not espn2 you'd get nevada Boise st Wyoming Hawaii in the fargodome instead of Indiana state. Scheels makes $10million/year profit off ndsu have you been there the last month it's insane

---

Would there really be 20k at a game that doesnt hold that much weight? Like congrats you win the "The NCAA loves money and will take any sponsor willing to shell out dough" bowl...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BisonNation11

Because NDSU and its supporters don't view being a top 20 team a success. The only way to prove you're the best is to win a national championship and that won't happen at the next level, mainly because we can't even afford to get in the next level let alone pay to be at the top of that level.

---

Do I hear the NAIA calling?...think of how much money we could save on scholarships if we moved down...and we'd be a lock on the national title every year...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SoCalBison

Do I hear the NAIA calling?...think of how much money we could save on scholarships if we moved down...and we'd be a lock on the national title every year...

---

Tell me any time in the history of NDSU has being a "top 20 team" been considered a success. You won't, no matter what level we were at.

Trophy chasing like Edina is what some of you want. Some of you live in a north dakota bubble, not 1 fan in ny la vegas florida cares about FCS you could win 8 titles in a row and they'd still pat you on the head and say "good job d2" this is a chance for Fargo to grow and the state of north Dakota to grow. The money is here you need a fundraiser that has youth and energy and actually asks for more money not be happy with status quo.

Dragon nailed it

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strongman

I disagree with that sentiment. Most progressive fans would rather be the #12 or #18 best team in the country than the national champion of small time college football. Under your rationale, the SEC and eight
select other teams should form their own league because nobody else can win a national championship.

---

I'm confused....isn't that exactly what they are trying to do?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

Trophy chasing like Edina is what some of you want. Some of you live in a north dakota bubble, not 1 fan in ny la vegas florida cares about FCS you could win 8 titles in a row and they'd still pat you on the head and say "good job d2" this is a chance for Fargo to grow and the state of north Dakota to grow. The money is here you need a fundraiser that has youth and energy and actually asks for more money not be happy with status quo.

---

And if ndsu plays in a bowl that nobody gives a shit about they are going to be in the same situation...if you honestly think that what NIU and Boise did is typical, you're dreaming. If it was so easy for a non bcs team to make it to a bcs game, every one would be doing it. Have you seen the recognition ndsu has received throughout this season? Where is GSU and App St? No one gives a rats ass about their transition bc it's to a dog shit conference...

After all the requirements for new/renovated facilities in the last couple years you really expect a "fundraiser" to pick up the 10 mil needed to even think of making that transition? NDSU is the king of the castle right now, your desire for big and better things is a bunch of smoke and mirrors bc I guarantee the mwc or the Mac are not going to equal more attention or recognition...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G_Funky

And if ndsu plays in a bowl that nobody gives a shit about they are going to be in the same situation...if you honestly think that what NIU and Boise did is typical, you're dreaming. If it was so easy for a non bcs team to make it to a bcs game, every one would be doing it. Have you seen the recognition ndsu has received throughout this season? Where is GSU and App St? No one gives a rats ass about their transition bc it's to a dog shit conference...

After all the requirements for new/renovated facilities in the last couple years you really expect a "fundraiser" to pick up the 10 mil needed to even think of making that transition? NDSU is the king of the castle right now, your desire for big and better things is a bunch of smoke and mirrors bc I guarantee the mwc or the Mac are not going to equal more attention or recognition...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

No shit sherlock Gsu and ap state are in transition so 1 year of nothing 2013, 1 year of conference play only and revenue sharing 2014 then bowl eligible in 2015.
Of course they will get more national recognition, this was ndsu's year or so being the media darling, frisco will get boring after awhile, winning playoff games 52-7 & 48-14 has become boring, the competition just isn't here in FCS and NDSU gets 18,700 fans, otheR FCS playoff games got 4000 in eiu 6000 in ewu, seriously high school teams get that.

The fans need to quit with this 9 man mentality and step up your game, drive around Fargo look at the money it's all around Fargo will be 200,000 by 2020.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

Trophy chasing like Edina is what some of you want. Some of you live in a north dakota bubble, not 1 fan in ny la vegas florida cares about FCS you could win 8 titles in a row and they'd still pat you on the head and say "good job d2" this is a chance for Fargo to grow and the state of north Dakota to grow. The money is here you need a fundraiser that has youth and energy and actually asks for more money not be happy with status quo.

---

You're right, there absolutely is money in the state - the problem is getting it from those who have it into the hands of the right people in Fargo. The most money not already tapped into by NDSU is in two places
1 - Bismarck. Good luck getting this money out of the legislature. They already think they are spending too much money in Higher Ed. If they are going to loosen up the purse strings, they will spend the money on developing the western half of the state to catch up with demand and encourage long term growth. The current group is not interested in building stadiums or even updating existing campus buildings. If you want to lobby people on the move to FBS, this is the group you should be lobbying to.
2 - Oil Rights recipients. Most of these people have no connection to NDSU and probably wouldn't know what FBS or Crimson Tide/Longhorns/etc. means. Convincing these people to donate to NDSU is like them receiving a letter from a prince in Nigeria who wants to share the fortune he just inherited but it will cost $20k to get the money through customs. You may be able to get a few, but it wouldn't bring any longterm results.

Go ahead, call me a sheltered small-thinker who enjoys a playoff system that makes their champ earn it instead of a system that lets half their teams get a "participation" trophy. The last thing I want to hear is "the season is a success because we qualified for a bowl game". The tradition at NDSU is to always want to be a champion and settling for a bowl game appearance (unless you are dillusional enough to think the big boys will let others into their playoff) is very anti-climatic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

No shit sherlock Gsu and ap state are in transition so 1 year of nothing 2013, 1 year of conference play only and revenue sharing 2014 then bowl eligible in 2015.
Of course they will get more national recognition, this was ndsu's year or so being the media darling, frisco will get boring after awhile, winning playoff games 52-7 & 48-14 has become boring, the competition just isn't here in FCS and NDSU gets 18,700 fans, otheR FCS playoff games got 4000 in eiu 6000 in ewu, seriously high school teams get that.

The fans need to quit with this 9 man mentality and step up your game, drive around Fargo look at the money it's all around Fargo will be 200,000 by 2020.

---

Are you saying that because one year the playoff competition was down you anticipate blowouts for the rest of NDSU's time in the FCS? That is completely fucking absurd.

Come find me in 2015 when Appy and GSU are bowl eligible...let me know how thats going because I dont care about the Sunbelt and I dont care about whatever ridiculous bowl they almost made it to until they lost 7 games in a conference made up of jokers.

On the other hand I will watch NDSU dominate schools that have beaten UCONN, ISU, WSU, etc...teams from major conferences that are relevant...

Very few fans in NY, Cali., Texas, Florida, etc. cares about the Mountain West or MAC so what's the difference as far as national exposure?

From fan's perspective, I like having the chance to play 4 playoff games over one bowl game.

I still think we'll end up with 3 subdivisions with the power conferences, leftovers from the FBS and fully funded FCS teams in the 2nd level, with a 3rd level for teams that don't carry at least 50 scholarships.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

No shit sherlock Gsu and ap state are in transition so 1 year of nothing 2013, 1 year of conference play only and revenue sharing 2014 then bowl eligible in 2015.
Of course they will get more national recognition, this was ndsu's year or so being the media darling, frisco will get boring after awhile, winning playoff games 52-7 & 48-14 has become boring, the competition just isn't here in FCS and NDSU gets 18,700 fans, otheR FCS playoff games got 4000 in eiu 6000 in ewu, seriously high school teams get that.

The fans need to quit with this 9 man mentality and step up your game, drive around Fargo look at the money it's all around Fargo will be 200,000 by 2020.

---

Is lakes even trying anymore?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dragonsfan

The money is here you need a fundraiser that has youth and energy and actually asks for more money not be happy with status quo.

---

Have at it Lakes...er I mean dragonsfan. And for the most part I agree with you but since it took us an insane amount of time to raise enough money to replace the horribly inadequate BSA, I'm not hopeful for us to suddenly come up with the extra 10 million a year for our program to be competitive. And that doesn't even begin to solve the problem of the FFD capacity or the fact that we are in the middle of nowhere geographically with no conference affiliation.

The crowd for the Beef 'O' Brady's Bowl between East Carolina and Ohio was pathetic last night.

Who the hell is East Carolina? Are they FBS? They must be big time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roadwarrior

Who the hell is East Carolina? Are they FBS? They must be big time.

---

They are big media darlings since they are in the FBS. Just watch College Gameday more. You'll see them on there...

The box score for Beef 'o' Brady lists 20,053, just behind the Potato bowl in Boise at 21,951.