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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
I grasp it.
Even with the higher ratio of institutional funds to athletics, UND academics were not in the red.
It took a $4.8M state bailout to head off even deeper academic cuts at NDSU.
So und has never been in the red? You seem to dream about that everyday.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
bisonaudit
I’m not sure that’s how it went down with student government. My impression, very much from the outside, was not that the athletic department did a very good job selling their position.
The athletic department was expecting a rubber stamp and instead got asked some pretty detailed and pointed questions that they didn't have answers for, including why they were coming back 2 years after a 5 year plan was implemented, asking for more money. They had to spend the weekend actually coming up with what they were asking for and why, come back to explain it and then they still didn't get the increase they were requesting. Vote was 0-7 against with 2 abstaining.
http://ndsuspectrum.com/athletics-re...-student-fees/
http://ndsuspectrum.com/athletics-re...-fee-increase/
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
abc123
The athletic department was expecting a rubber stamp and instead got asked some pretty detailed and pointed questions that they didn't have answers for, including why they were coming back 2 years after a 5 year plan was implemented asking for more money. They had to spend the weekend actually coming up with what they were asking for and why, come back to explain it and then they still didn't get the increase they were requesting. Vote was 0-7 against with 2 abstaining.
http://ndsuspectrum.com/athletics-re...-student-fees/
http://ndsuspectrum.com/athletics-re...-fee-increase/
Not like you guys that just spend and when your over budget just tap into the school general fund. Students will step up when the time comes. You guys are tapped out in that front.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Bison Dan
Not like you guys that just spend and when your over budget just tap into the school general fund. Students will step up when the time comes. You guys are tapped out in that front.
UND students voted in favor of increasing student fees to move to D1.
NDSU apparently can't balance a budget and instead requests extra one-time funding from the legislature so they don't have to make hard decisions.
Speaking of, isn't it NDSU's former president who's on record saying that he feels NDSU's fan base is close to tapped out? Not that he'd know or anything though I guess.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
abc123
UND students voted in favor of increasing student fees to move to D1.
NDSU apparently can't balance a budget and instead requests extra one-time funding from the legislature so they don't have to make hard decisions.
Speaking of, isn't it NDSU's former president who's on record saying that he feels NDSU's fan base is close to tapped out? Not that he'd know or anything though I guess.
During which part of the $500M in 5 years capital raising campaign did that statement happen? Lol
Jeez guys we have this conversation every 6 months.
Our current athletic director has stated multiple times that the money actually works out quite well at the next level. Guessing you forgot about that too. For as much as y’all obsess over NDSU you’d think you’d actually remember some of this stuff.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
NDSU students rejected the funding increase because we were already dunking on everyone else at FCS level. Would be different if it were to back an FBS move.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSU92
NDSU students rejected the funding increase because we were already dunking on everyone else at FCS level. Would be different if it were to back an FBS move.
It seems like they rejected the request because the athletic department came back to the well 3 years to early and acted like they were entitled to the money. Seems like the clock wouldn’t be an issue at this point and if a well reasoned request were coupled with a move to FCS the result could perhaps be different.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Bison Dan
So und has never been in the red? You seem to dream about that everyday.
You must've missed ...
Quote:
There were cuts. Deep. Painful. Sobering. But today, a positive.
Show me, link to, the one-time state budget line item bailout like NDSU got. (If I've forgotten it I'll own it.)
UND was red, and fixed it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSU92
During which part of the $500M in 5 years capital raising campaign did that statement happen? Lol
Immediately after:
Quote:
"In a town of a quarter of a million people (including the entire Fargo-Moorhead metro area) you can only raise so much money and I think we're probably getting near that point, so it's not as simple as, 'Well, you'll raise more money if you're FBS.' I don't know that that's the case," Bresciani said.
https://www.inforum.com/opinion/colu...sible-fbs-move
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
bisonaudit
It seems like they rejected the request because the athletic department came back to the well 3 years to early and acted like they were entitled to the money. Seems like the clock wouldn’t be an issue at this point and if a well reasoned request were coupled with a move to FCS the result could perhaps be different.
First sentence: Perfect summary.
Second sentence: Those student fees would go further if NDSU's enrollment looked more 2014 and less 2005. And when local news reports show NDSU students question why an ITF when there are program cuts, the environment doesn't appear friendly to athletics fees.*
*Yes, the targeted donations built that ITF; not all the students understand or care about that detail.
https://www.valleynewslive.com/2022/...nization-plan/ <- 1:06 mark
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
First sentence: Perfect summary.
Second sentence: Those student fees would go further if
NDSU's enrollment looked more 2014 and less 2005. And when local news reports show NDSU students question why an ITF when there are program cuts, the environment doesn't appear friendly to athletics fees.*
*Yes, the targeted donations built that ITF; not all the students understand or care about that detail.
https://www.valleynewslive.com/2022/...nization-plan/ <- 1:06 mark
You should be worrying about yourselves and not NDSU. UND athletic department is a money pit - having the taxpayers of GF subsidizing it and the city loaning money to it. You guys are just worried about being left behind again when we jump to FBS.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Bison Dan
You should be worrying about yourselves and not NDSU. UND athletic department is a money pit - having the taxpayers of GF subsidizing it and the city loaning money to it. You guys are just worried about being left behind again when we jump to FBS.
Subsidize? You mean like playing football in a city-owned facility? Guilty. As is NDSU.
And a city loan that'll be paid back resulting in a facility that'll be used by UND, GF Schools, and GF Parks.
The gross athletic budgets are nearly identical over the last five years. UND has hockey which is claimed here as a pit. What pit is NDSU throwing money down? Could some be used better to get the red out of academics?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
President Bresciani was tone deaf on a lot of items and didn't do much over his tenure to move the University forward. The current budget predicament was created under his leadership. I'm not sure I would use his opinion on this matter as a bellwether for the future. He didn't do anything terribly negative but he sure as hell wasn't someone that I would label as "visionary". So forgive me if I don't put much stock in that opinion.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
President Bresciani was tone deaf on a lot of items and didn't do much over his tenure to move the University forward. The current budget predicament was created under his leadership. I'm not sure I would use his opinion on this matter as a bellwether for the future. He didn't do anything terribly negative but he sure as hell wasn't someone that I would label as "visionary". So forgive me if I don't put much stock in that opinion.
But NDSU92 told me about this huge capital campaign during his tenure ...
Was he the best NDSU's had? Maybe not even top three, but he could get the donor bucks, so I'd say he knows donor bucks.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
oldmantutters
How about this for a conference?
Washington State
Oregon State
Boise State
Montana
Montana State
Wyoming
NDSU
SDSU
Colorado State
And fill in with 1-3 of the following:
UND
USD
Northern Colorado
Idaho
Idaho State
Portland State
If the PAC12 gets raided it could mean a huge shake up in the landscape of things.
Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
I think the remaining PAC schools pick off the best of the MWC before that happens.
All the bad things will happen to the new schools in this round of expansion too; no exit fee participation, entrance fee, uneven revenue distribution. They will all say yes to move up a tier, including NDSU.
New PAC10: Stanford, Cal, WSU, OSU, Boise, SDSUr, SMU, CSU, Fresno, UNLV (Maybe Rice and Tulane if you want 12)
New MWC: Air Force, Wyoming, NDSU, SDSUb, New Mexico, UTEP, Hawaii, USU, Nevada, SJSU, Montana, Montana State
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
EP NDSU Fan
I think the remaining PAC schools pick off the best of the MWC before that happens.
All the bad things will happen to the new schools in this round of expansion too; no exit fee participation, entrance fee, uneven revenue distribution. They will all say yes to move up a tier, including NDSU.
New PAC10: Stanford, Cal, WSU, OSU, Boise, SDSUr, SMU, CSU, Fresno, UNLV (Maybe Rice and Tulane if you want 12)
New MWC: Air Force, Wyoming, NDSU, SDSUb, New Mexico, UTEP, Hawaii, USU, Nevada, SJSU, Montana, Montana State
And thus “SDSUb” was born.
Do I give up my campaign to start calling them “Those Fucks”…?
…Time will tell…
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
Subsidize? You mean like playing football in a city-owned facility? Guilty. As is NDSU.
And a city loan
that'll be paid back resulting in a facility that'll be used by UND, GF Schools, and GF Parks.
The
gross athletic budgets are nearly identical over the last five years. UND has hockey which is claimed here as a pit. What pit is NDSU throwing money down? Could some be used better to get the red out of academics?
Do you still give the majority of the football gate to the foundation running the facility you play hockey in even after all these years?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EP NDSU Fan
I think the remaining PAC schools pick off the best of the MWC before that happens.
All the bad things will happen to the new schools in this round of expansion too; no exit fee participation, entrance fee, uneven revenue distribution. They will all say yes to move up a tier, including NDSU.
New PAC10: Stanford, Cal, WSU, OSU, Boise, SDSUr, SMU, CSU, Fresno, UNLV (Maybe Rice and Tulane if you want 12)
New MWC: Air Force, Wyoming, NDSU, SDSUb, New Mexico, UTEP, Hawaii, USU, Nevada, SJSU, Montana, Montana State
I think the Pac will stay at the 10 they have now.
Maybe San Diego State goes to the Big 12 but that seems unlikely.
However, who knows.
As for your New MW. AFA would leave for the AAC, Hawaii would go independent, New Mexico would join with UTEP in CUSA, Utah State would likely go to CUSA as well. I don't know about San Jose State but Nevada could go AAC or just drop football and concentrate on basketball and baseball in the WCC.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
MWC
I think the Pac will stay at the 10 they have now.
Maybe San Diego State goes to the Big 12 but that seems unlikely.
However, who knows.
As for your New MW. AFA would leave for the AAC, Hawaii would go independent, New Mexico would join with UTEP in CUSA, Utah State would likely go to CUSA as well. I don't know about San Jose State but Nevada could go AAC or just drop football and concentrate on basketball and baseball in the WCC.
No one is going CUSA by choice
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Nobody is going to hang in there with 4 FCS schools coming on board either..
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
EC8CH
Do you still give the majority of the football gate to the foundation running the facility you play hockey in even after all these years?
The fact that UND took on a wildly high interest loan from a nazi sympathizer in order to build a hockey stadium filled with racist innuendo has no bearing on this conversation about budget ethics. None at all!
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
MWC
Nobody is going to hang in there with 4 FCS schools coming on board either..
You must’ve not heard about the strategy though. It’s the STRATEGY
Lmao
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
Nobody is going to hang in there with 4 FCS schools coming on board either..
Anything including Montana and Montana St isn’t happening. I’d be genuinely shocked if SDSUb goes when NDSU does.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
I think the Pac will stay at the 10 they have now.
Maybe San Diego State goes to the Big 12 but that seems unlikely.
However, who knows.
As for your New MW. AFA would leave for the AAC, Hawaii would go independent, New Mexico would join with UTEP in CUSA, Utah State would likely go to CUSA as well. I don't know about San Jose State but Nevada could go AAC or just drop football and concentrate on basketball and baseball in the WCC.
That won’t happen, no one is leaving that much cash and control on the table. The current tv deal goes to 2026, all that tv cash and exit fees will be taken by the original members. They just need to prevent the conference folding. Same reason the PAC won’t fold, the remnants will not be able to get a better deal elsewhere.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TAILG8R
Anything including Montana and Montana St isn’t happening. I’d be genuinely shocked if SDSUb goes when NDSU does.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought about that too but moving to 10 teams by adding something like NDSU and NMSU seems dicey. You would need to keep Air Force after the 2026 TV deal ends and you have HI as football only.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EP NDSU Fan
That won’t happen, no one is leaving that much cash and control on the table. The current tv deal goes to 2026, all that tv cash and exit fees will be taken by the original members. They just need to prevent the conference folding. Same reason the PAC won’t fold, the remnants will not be able to get a better deal elsewhere.
The current tv deal can be unilaterally ended by the providers should schools leave the MW and they will do just that.. With the lineup you are suggesting, the travel will be horrendous and there will be no future tv deal to cover any of the added expense. If the departing schools wish to leave, they can wait until 2026 and pay no exit fees..AFA will leave. Hawaii will go independent..I think NV and SJSU will drop football. UTEP will have zero interest in joining. New Mexico will definitely look east. Same with USU..
So your conference is Wyoming and 7 or 8 FCS schools..Why you would want any part of a gutted MW is perplexing to me.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
The current tv deal can be unilaterally ended by the providers should schools leave the MW and they will do just that.. With the lineup you are suggesting, the travel will be horrendous and there will be no future tv deal to cover any of the added expense. If the departing schools wish to leave, they can wait until 2026 and pay no exit fees..AFA will leave. Hawaii will go independent..I think NV and SJSU will drop football. UTEP will have zero interest in joining. New Mexico will definitely look east. Same with USU..
So your conference is Wyoming and 7 or 8 FCS schools..Why you would want any part of a gutted MW is perplexing to me.
Take a good long look at the existing summit and MVFC, and you will be no longer perplexed
Look man, shake things up a little or shake things up a lot, just shake us out of FCS and we’ll be happy
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
The current tv deal can be unilaterally ended by the providers should schools leave the MW and they will do just that.. With the lineup you are suggesting, the travel will be horrendous and there will be no future tv deal to cover any of the added expense. If the departing schools wish to leave, they can wait until 2026 and pay no exit fees..AFA will leave. Hawaii will go independent..I think NV and SJSU will drop football. UTEP will have zero interest in joining. New Mexico will definitely look east. Same with USU..
So your conference is Wyoming and 7 or 8 FCS schools..Why you would want any part of a gutted MW is perplexing to me.
TV will keep the deal for the original members for two years and scalp the new members to keep the time zone content. Future deals will be CUSA level. The part I think you are missing are the exit fees. If the raid happens this year the remaining members need to collect those fees. It could be worth more than their next contract but you still need a conference to collect the exit fees.
The MWC in all my scenarios require the PAC to move first via the 4 corner schools. It’s the only way I see NDSU moving up, but to your last question on why care? It’s FBS and even in the worst version of the MWC it would have better public peer institutions… not Murray St, UNI, SIU, YSU.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
Subsidize? You mean like playing football in a city-owned facility? Guilty. As is NDSU.
And a city loan
that'll be paid back resulting in a facility that'll be used by UND, GF Schools, and GF Parks.
The
gross athletic budgets are nearly identical over the last five years. UND has hockey which is claimed here as a pit. What pit is NDSU throwing money down? Could some be used better to get the red out of academics?
The difference in the budgets is you guys take 10M out the institutional funds to balance your finances and we're half that.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TAILG8R
Anything including Montana and Montana St isn’t happening. I’d be genuinely shocked if SDSUb goes when NDSU does.
100 % agree on the MT schools. They've basically said this themselves, yet message-board people keep bringing them up for some reason
Hope you are correct on the bunnies not holding us back
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bison Dan
The difference in the budgets is you guys take 10M out the institutional funds to balance your finances and we're half that.
Annually, correct? So the one-time $4M enrollment "bail-out" that he keeps bringing up is not that big a deal in the bigger picture
I'd still like to see a precise number for what fraction of their students are on-line only. That would be interesting
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EP NDSU Fan
TV will keep the deal for the original members for two years and scalp the new members to keep the time zone content. Future deals will be CUSA level. The part I think you are missing are the exit fees. If the raid happens this year the remaining members need to collect those fees. It could be worth more than their next contract but you still need a conference to collect the exit fees.
The MWC in all my scenarios require the PAC to move first via the 4 corner schools. It’s the only way I see NDSU moving up, but to your last question on why care? It’s FBS and even in the worst version of the MWC it would have better public peer institutions… not Murray St, UNI, SIU, YSU.
Why would the MW add 4 FCS schools? If you are already putting UTEP, then NMSU and Texas State gets the league back to 9.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
Why would the MW add 4 FCS schools? If you are already putting UTEP, then NMSU and Texas State gets the league back to 9.
Access to media and potential students is in Texas' favor.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Annually, correct? So the one-time $4M enrollment "bail-out" that he keeps bringing up is not that big a deal in the bigger picture
REA does all the ticketing work for UND Athletics (less UND/State staff) and how they're set up (they file Form 990) they have to return operational profits to UND. When you contract someone to do the work, yeah, the funds run through their books first before getting to yours.
UND made their State allocated funds, their budgets, work without a $4.8M bailout. (And I'll plainly add a "this session" because it could change. However I'm thinking NDSU's time in Bismarck this year is a cautionary tale to Armacost when thinking about the 2025-2027 session.)
Online students is directly in line with the primary mission of a university: Education. (Yes, Chapo, education, not football, or hockey. There, I said it.) Dr. Bresciani was horribly myopic on that subject and it's hindering NDSU.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
REA does all the ticketing work for UND Athletics (less UND/State staff) and how they're set up (they file Form 990) they have to return operational profits to UND. When you contract someone to do the work, yeah, the funds run through their books first before getting to yours.
UND made their State allocated funds, their budgets, work without a $4.8M bailout. (And I'll plainly add a "this session" because it could change. However I'm thinking NDSU's time in Bismarck this year is a cautionary tale to Armacost when thinking about the 2025-2027 session.)
Online students is directly in line with the primary mission of a university: Education. (Yes, Chapo, education, not football, or hockey. There, I said it.) Dr. Bresciani was horribly myopic on that subject and it's hindering NDSU.
Online is a fad and as an employer I would be very skeptical of hiring anyone with only online experience. If und is so hip on it why are they building more taxpayer subsidized student housing?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
REA does all the ticketing work for UND Athletics (less UND/State staff) and how they're set up (they file Form 990) they have to return operational profits to UND. When you contract someone to do the work, yeah, the funds run through their books first before getting to yours.
UND made their State allocated funds, their budgets, work without a $4.8M bailout. (And I'll plainly add a "this session" because it could change. However I'm thinking NDSU's time in Bismarck this year is a cautionary tale to Armacost when thinking about the 2025-2027 session.)
Online students is directly in line with the primary mission of a university: Education. (Yes, Chapo, education, not football, or hockey. There, I said it.) Dr. Bresciani was horribly myopic on that subject and it's hindering NDSU.
DUDE!!! Who fucking cares!!! Shut it! UND sucks and we know it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Annually, correct? So the one-time $4M enrollment "bail-out" that he keeps bringing up is not that big a deal in the bigger picture
I'd still like to see a precise number for what fraction of their students are on-line only. That would be interesting
This has a lot of data. https://ndus.edu/wp-content/uploads/...ent-Report.pdf
Fall 2022 Numbers
Total Headcount:
- NDSU - 12242
- 9909 full time and 2333 part time
- 10096 undergrad and 2146 post-grad
- UND - 13876
- 8777 full time and 5099 part time
- 9928 undergrad and 3948 post-grad
Delivery Method of instruction
- NDSU
- 11151 on-campus and 758 off-campus
- 1515 hybrid
- 6014 distance education
- UND
- 8457 on-campus and 266 off-campus
- 3041 hybrid
- 9444 distance education
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
Why would the MW add 4 FCS schools? If you are already putting UTEP, then NMSU and Texas State gets the league back to 9.
and NDSU for 10
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
That is not impossible..Unlikely, though
