A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by taper

I certainly don't have a crystal ball, but I have to ask if you're looking at what you think will happen or what you want to happen. I'm basing my view on these things:
UND to Big Sky. Unmitigated disaster without a partner. Travel costs killed them. Dropped multiple sports, ongoing lawsuits. The BSC was actually so desperate to get rid of them they waived the exit fee.
UMass. Former FCS champ that believed they had outgrown it. Never found a real home. Never had more than 3 FBS wins in a season. Revolving door of coaches.
Idaho. WAC collapsed, they dropped back to FCS with no other options. Better leadership than...
NMSU. 1 winning season since 2002. Independent after the WAC collapse until the CUSA needed warm bodies.
FAMU. Former FCS champ. Attempt at FBS move in 2004 was such a disaster the NCAA changed their rules to prevent programs from causing this amount of self-harm again.

I wouldn't even consider trading spots with any of these. Without the groundwork I believe we wouldn't be successful.

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As BigLake pointed out, I don’t think the comparisons are as apt as you make them out to be. But that’s just, like, my opinion, man.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

I would argue that we are dying now. The ceiling in FCS isn't going to be raised.

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Don’t think anyone is arguing that. A case can be made, however, that using the cusa to bridge the gap to a better conference could also be a dagger. Pessistic or realistic….not sure but that outcome will be determined by the admins I guess.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Don’t think anyone is arguing that. A case can be made, however, that using the cusa to bridge the gap to a better conference could also be a dagger. Pessistic or realistic….not sure but that outcome will be determined by the admins I guess.

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Yeah it’s almost like - Would you rather die a slow and painful death in the FCS or go out in a blaze of glory trying to make it in the FBS..?

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Originally Posted by taper

No vision? I've been repeatedly on record saying we need to increase enrollment and improve MBB. I have vastly more vision than the FBS or Bust crowd.
Pessimist? No, I'm a realist. I can see the reasons we haven't received an invite.
I was a student during the D1 transition. I will say I didn't have a strong opinion either way at first, but after we beat Montana I was all in.
In other words, you're completely wrong about me. Don't attack the messenger.

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Enrollment definitely could help make our case stronger but it isn't the noose around our neck that you make it out to be. It isn't preventing an FBS invite. It may be a factor in preventing an AAC or MWC invite but those aren't the only FBS conferences available and there's nothing stopping us from growing enrollment while we are in another FBS conference that positions us for another conference move down the road. MBB isn't getting increased investment anytime soon. That's less realistic than a football only AAC invite. So what other ideas you got?

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Originally Posted by heffray

Yeah it’s almost like - Would you rather die a slow and painful death in the FCS or go out in a blaze of glory trying to make it in the FBS..?

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Yep. I guess, in my opinion, I would rather try and fail than fail to try. Just seems like a loser mentality to me.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Don’t think anyone is arguing that. A case can be made, however, that using the cusa to bridge the gap to a better conference could also be a dagger. Pessistic or realistic….not sure but that outcome will be determined by the admins I guess.

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A dagger? In what way? Would NDSU fail to exist? Would the football program shut down? I just don't see it. If there is a dagger, as you put it, it would be a .500/middling FBS program with really no national presence. That would definitely be disappointing but I think that is likely to occur in FCS as well. We are recruiting almost no new/young football fans and almost all of our big supporters are aging. Once that generation is gone, what is there going to be to replace them? Factor in that it is highly unlikely that we will win at the same level that we have the past decade and it is just as likely that we end up somewhere between Youngstown and UNI. That, in my opinion, would be just as big of dagger to our football program as being a .500 team in the FBS.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

A dagger? In what way? Would NDSU fail to exist? Would the football program shut down? I just don't see it. If there is a dagger, as you put it, it would be a .500/middling FBS program with really no national presence. That would definitely be disappointing but I think that is likely to occur in FCS as well. We are recruiting almost no new/young football fans and almost all of our big supporters are aging. Once that generation is gone, what is there going to be to replace them? Factor in that it is highly unlikely that we will win at the same level that we have the past decade and it is just as likely that we end up somewhere between Youngstown and UNI. That, in my opinion, would be just as big of dagger to our football program as being a .500 team in the FBS.

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You describe the NDSU football conundrum very well.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

You describe the NDSU football conundrum very well.

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So than why not take the chance on FBS if the risks are fairly similar but the rewards are much higher in FBS?

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

So than why not take the chance on FBS if the risks are fairly similar but the rewards are much higher in FBS?

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Sure. Go for it. But I also don’t see a single team in the CUSA who’s gonna get me to increase team maker donations, throw money towards an NIL or even drive to fargo for a game. Just my opinion, total respect if those teams get your gander up.

Oddly enough, the entire CUSA has a 4 week stretch where games are Tuesday Tuesday Thursday Thursday in the middle of the season. Ain’t gonna work well around these parts.

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Originally Posted by heffray

Yeah it’s almost like - Would you rather die a slow and painful death in the FCS or go out in a blaze of glory trying to make it in the FBS..?

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Sure. Go for it. But I also don’t see a single team in the CUSA who’s gonna get me to increase team maker donations, throw money towards an NIL or even drive to fargo for a game. Just my opinion, total respect if those teams get your gander up.

Oddly enough, the entire CUSA has a 4 week stretch where games are Tuesday Tuesday Thursday Thursday in the middle of the season. Ain’t gonna work well around these parts.

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The current FCS slate of games isn't working well around these parts.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

The current FCS slate of games isn't working well around these parts.

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Nope. Sure isn’t. Only made it to the SDSU game this season myself and honestly didn’t miss much about it. Once again it describes the conundrum well.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Nope. Sure isn’t. Only made it to the SDSU game this season myself and honestly didn’t miss much about it. Once again it describes the conundrum well.

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I agree. I was at 5 out of 6 home games this year but mainly because my daughter was a freshman on the dance team. If that wasn't the case I probably would have been the same as you.
It's difficult to justify the costs when other than the SDSU game the other 4 games that I was at were very much lacking in atmosphere and excitement. Even the energy around tailgating has waned. If you have a very established tailgating group, I think it can still be fun because you're hanging out with friends. For those just showing up without a defined tailgate group, I think the experience is no where near what it used to be in terms of buzz and excitement in the lots.

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Originally Posted by IzzyFlexion

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…but they’ll never take OUR FORUM!

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Originally Posted by Bisonator98

Couldn't agree more, I'd take a CUSA invite. It gets our foot in the door and much easier to make a future move to AAC or MWC if the opportunity arises. We'd be much more appealing to a better conference if we were already FBS as opposed to FCS. Just like when we went FCS we were not even in the Summit/MVFC discussion until we established ourselves at the FCS level. Gotta earn your stripes!

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You mean a football only CUSA invite. Problem is the MWC or the AAC are still not going to give us a football only invite and our geography takes out our chance at a full invite

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

I believe the groundwork for an NDSU move to FBS is much further along than UMass, Idaho or FAMU when they moved. And if it's not than I question what the hell the admin has been doing. I can understand the fear of ending up like those schools to a degree. However, I just don't really view the predicaments that those schools are in as being that much worse than the predicament than NDSU is currently in. UMass still has name recognition equal to or above NDSU and they have a Men's BB program that would consistently wipe the floor with NDSU. Yes their football team has been unsuccessful at the FBS level but I think some of that is because they aren't a football centric school with the infrastructure to support it like we do. Idaho left for FBS to keep up with Boise. They struggled to find a conference that fit and eventually had to put their tales between their legs and move back to FCS...where they are currently competing in the exact same division of football as NDSU is currently competing in. FAMU was completely unprepared for a move to the FBS and didn't lay any groundwork to make it a success. None of those three situations seem even remotely realistic as possibilities of happening to NDSU. If you're looking for a realistic comparison that most of us would not consider a success, than I would point to Georgia Southern or Western Kentucky. Those are programs that are more similar to NDSU and I think they are more realistic in terms of what could possibly happen to NDSU (in a negative) way if we move to FBS. We aren't going to turn into a 2 win FBS team unless the entire Football Program infrastructure falls apart. However, I do believe that it is reasonable to fear that we could turn into .500 FBS team that is on the border to bowl eligibility and never really makes any real strides forward in FBS. In that scenario we would likely end up in a similar situation where the football fan interest and excitement wanes significantly. I don't see that as anymore negative than our current FCS situation.

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Those teams didn’t have a geography problem

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Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club

You mean a football only CUSA invite. Problem is the MWC or the AAC are still not going to give us a football only invite and our geography takes out our chance at a full invite

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NDSU will never win 9 FCS championships. There is no way we are getting a quarterback drafted in the first round. A $50 million practice facility is out of the question for a school like NDSU. Lots of things sound impossible before they happen. I believe there is a path to FBS right now. NDSU leadership just doesn’t like the current path available. That can and will change if we have 4, 5, 6 more years of increasing fan apathy.

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Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club

Those teams didn’t have a geography problem

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Umass and Idaho absolutely have a geography problem. They also have far less commitment to football than NDSU.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

NDSU will never win 9 FCS championships. There is no way we are getting a quarterback drafted in the first round. A $50 million practice facility is out of the question for a school like NDSU. Lots of things sound impossible before they happen. I believe there is a path to FBS right now. NDSU leadership just doesn’t like the current path available. That can and will change if we have 4, 5, 6 more years of increasing fan apathy.

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NDSU may not have another QB taken in the first round again if NIL is allowed to reek havoc across the Football world. Fan apathy would continue if we went to the CUSA. Big gamble this administration is not going to take.

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Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club

NDSU may not have another QB taken in the first round again if NIL is allowed to reek havoc across the Football world. Fan apathy would continue if we went to the CUSA. Big gamble this administration is not going to take.

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Just as big of a gamble for this admin to stay FCS.

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Originally Posted by taper

Where's our invite and who's our regional partner? If you want to see harm look at programs that tried jumping without either. You keep demanding we skip both. Sorry if all your dreams aren't coming true tomorrow.

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I don't give two shits about a regional partner and anyone with an ounce of vision shouldn't either. It is just a roadblock that people want to construct, we have one viable regional partner and if they want to join us great and if not then they shouldn't be dictating what is best for our program. We need to do what is best for us and that is clearly FBS.

FCS football is dead, right now our admin is doing laugable stuff like trying to sell a destination game vs Tennessee State. I wouldn't drive to Valley City to watch NDSU play Tennessee State much less get on a flight to go watch the game. It is time to get the hell out before lasting damage is done to our program.

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Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club

NDSU may not have another QB taken in the first round again if NIL is allowed to reek havoc across the Football world. Fan apathy would continue if we went to the CUSA. Big gamble this administration is not going to take.

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I've come to the conclusion that it's pretty much over. FCS sucks and there is nowhere to go. Time to put our time and money toward something else.

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Originally Posted by NDSUstudent

I don't give two shits about a regional partner and anyone with an ounce of vision shouldn't either. It is just a roadblock that people want to construct, we have one viable regional partner and if they want to join us great and if not then they shouldn't be dictating what is best for our program. We need to do what is best for us and that is clearly FBS.

FCS football is dead, right now our admin is doing laugable stuff like trying to sell a destination game vs Tennessee State. I wouldn't drive to Valley City to watch NDSU play Tennessee State much less get on a flight to go watch the game. It is time to get the hell out before lasting damage is done to our program.

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Lol. Regional partner is a valid concern both from NDSU standpoint and any potential conference looking to add them. That doesn’t mean jack shit about lack of vision, it is quite frankly a problem, and it’s ok to acknowledge it.

Second paragraph is 100% spot on.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Lol. Regional partner is a valid concern both from NDSU standpoint and any potential conference looking to add them. That doesn’t mean jack shit about lack of vision, it is quite frankly a problem, and it’s ok to acknowledge it.

Second paragraph is 100% spot on.

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Might be concern for a conference that wants us, I guess that would make it our concern but we don't need to make it into anything more. If a league offers an invite, we are not going to decline because SDSU isn't ready to commit.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

Yep. I guess, in my opinion, I would rather try and fail than fail to try. Just seems like a loser mentality to me.

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like "Bring on the Competition!" oh wait. that's not NDSU'S motto anymore

NDSU doesn't need these pud regional schools amymore...ZERO CHANCE WE SHOULD WAIT FOR 1

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Originally Posted by IzzyFlexion

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I got you out with my strippers post. NIIIICE!


just move FBS or Resign Matt Larson!! you got 3 months

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Originally Posted by NDSUstudent

Might be concern for a conference that wants us, I guess that would make it our concern but we don't need to make it into anything more. If a league offers an invite, we are not going to decline because SDSU isn't ready to commit.

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True. But the “IF” seems likes it is a problem right now.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

like "Bring on the Competition!" oh wait. that's not NDSU'S motto anymore

NDSU doesn't need these pud regional schools amymore...ZERO CHANCE WE SHOULD WAIT FOR 1

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Tried to schedule Notre Dame = “not our motto”.

Perhaps the problem is other schools and conferences and not NDSU. Just a hunch.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

It's not about staying FCS it's the fact there's never been an invite and there's a glaring (1 or 2) reason why. Once again, nobody is saying FCS forever like is lead to believe here. Fact of the matter is, slide the curtain open and the next option is likely not going to be that exciting - because at this rate it appears it's going to be CUSA or nothing.

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I would think that actual "invites" come pretty late in the process. No conference wants to make an offer that is turned down. I would love to know more about the discussions behind the scenes that haven't resulted in actual invitations to join conferences.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

Just as big of a gamble for this admin to stay FCS.

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I learned a little this season about Georgia Southern's shift to FBS and beyond the Flex-bone offense. It was all part of a larger plan to upgrade the university and its image. They have the advantage of businesses near Savannah making huge investments in the region. But it wasn't simply isolated decisions to go FBS or to a Pro-Set offense.

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Originally Posted by CyPanth

I learned a little this season about Georgia Southern's shift to FBS and beyond the Flex-bone offense. It was all part of a larger plan to upgrade the university and its image. They have the advantage of businesses near Savannah making huge investments in the region. But it wasn't simply isolated decisions to go FBS or to a Pro-Set offense.

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The writing has been on the wall for a while now around NDSU. Leadership thought they had a longer timeline to make it happen. I believe, that things that have happened in college football have sped up the timeline for NDSU. I think the Fargo business community would get behind an FBS move. The problem is that the University leadership has to initiate the conversation. I believe that they have recently but it is my opinion that they were late to the conversation so to speak which moves the timeline out because as you reference these decisions have a lot of moving parts and take time to put together. Meanwhile the fan apathy in Fargo is growing quickly and the recent loss in the championship to our rival in a non-competitive game along with the transfers of contributing members of the team are only going to speed up that increase. If the current leadership wasn't on the hot seat before, their asses should be getting real warm now.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

The writing has been on the wall for a while now around NDSU. Leadership thought they had a longer timeline to make it happen. I believe, that things that have happened in college football have sped up the timeline for NDSU. I think the Fargo business community would get behind an FBS move. The problem is that the University leadership has to initiate the conversation. I believe that they have recently but it is my opinion that they were late to the conversation so to speak which moves the timeline out because as you reference these decisions have a lot of moving parts and take time to put together. Meanwhile the fan apathy in Fargo is growing quickly and the recent loss in the championship to our rival in a non-competitive game along with the transfers of contributing members of the team are only going to speed up that increase. If the current leadership wasn't on the hot seat before, their asses should be getting real warm now.

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Ya. It’s clearly snowballing out of control.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Tried to schedule Notre Dame = “not our motto”.

Perhaps the problem is other schools and conferences and not NDSU. Just a hunch.

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But they are playing Tennessee State either next year or year after.

now are you naysayers ready?

we must put all pressure on ndsu admin NOW

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Originally Posted by CAS4127

But they are playing Tennessee State either next year or year after.

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Isn't that wild. But somehow it's NDSU admins fault. lol.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

now are you naysayers ready?

we must put all pressure on ndsu admin NOW

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You go buddy. Hit em up with every email you can. Blow your lid on message boards. Direct all your hate towards NDSU and the admins. It's pretty clear the ball isn't in our court and the girl you wanna bang ain't returning the favor....but you go ahead and toot that little horn of yours.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

You go buddy. Hit em up with every email you can. Blow your lid on message boards. Direct all your hate towards NDSU and the admins. It's pretty clear the ball isn't in our court and the girl you wanna bang ain't returning the favor....but you go ahead and toot that little horn of yours.

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I agree that the ball isn't completely in their court but the admin's employment by the university is dependent on their overall management of the athletic department and I believe they have mis-read the tea leaves and reacted slowly to the changing environment of college football. It is completely unfair to say that they are the sole reason we aren't in FBS but I think they will need to deliver a significant change in the near future or they likely aren't going to be employed by the university any longer. As an owner of a business, I am not in control of every variable that affects my company but I am responsible for how the company reacts to the variables. If the business fails, it's squarely on leadership and I am accountable for results or the lack thereof. There may be valid explanations and obstacles but the reality is that great leaders find ways to react while maintaining expected performance metrics.

^^^^^ ding ding ding.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

I agree that the ball isn't completely in their court but the admin's employment by the university is dependent on their overall management of the athletic department and I believe they have mis-read the tea leaves and reacted slowly to the changing environment of college football. It is completely unfair to say that they are the sole reason we aren't in FBS but I think they will need to deliver a significant change in the near future or they likely aren't going to be employed by the university any longer. As an owner of a business, I am not in control of every variable that affects my company but I am responsible for how the company reacts to the variables. If the business fails, it's squarely on leadership and I am accountable for results or the lack thereof. There may be valid explanations and obstacles but the reality is that great leaders find ways to react while maintaining expected performance metrics.

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This ignores that fact that everything Bresciani said, publicly and privately, indicated that the "owner of the business" was completely content to stay in FCS. Will Cook have the same philosophy? Who knows, and he hasn't tipped his hand either way as far as I've heard....

Like BLB said, the ball regarding an FBS move-up isn't completely in their court. However, you can't look at the current admin and say with a straight face say that they have been real proactive on a lot of different issues. The game day experience has been severely lacking for YEARS, and what changes have they made? New video boards? That's a Fargodome expenditure and what did NDSU do? They made them a mess during the game with all of the advertising. If you're curious what the rushing/passing/total yardage is, you miss plays waiting for that set of information to scroll because 2/3 of the space outside of the live game view is covered with ads. Added beer sales? How many years too late? Attendance started declining 5-7 years ago and they finally tried to ask why this past offseason. SMDH. I get that fundraising the IPF is a big win for the athletic department and the university. It is a great facility for the university but if that is the only thing they've really done to "be prepared if an opportunity presents itself" then that is EXTREMELY short-sighted.