I'm not talking about top 12. That's lakes bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
So you're saying the Bison recruits that now choose NDSU over G5 will suddenly choose und, ust, or sdsu instead, were NDSU to go FBS
Do I have that right?
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I'm not talking about top 12. That's lakes bullshitQuote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
So you're saying the Bison recruits that now choose NDSU over G5 will suddenly choose und, ust, or sdsu instead, were NDSU to go FBS
Do I have that right?
I think the atmosphere at the SDSU game was fairly consistent throughout. The positive plays for the Bison weren’t there in the second half but fans were cheering on defense. I think the electricity of the playoffs is likely already gone. Outside of JMU last year, what recent playoff game has had an electric atmosphere? I also think you’re projecting your personal feelings onto “most of the crowd”. The NDSU fanbase has shown it is capable of creating a very exciting environment. It just needs a reason. You believe the past will repeat itself. There are others, like myself, who think the fanbase needs new challenges to engage that level of excitement.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
The level of excitement was generated in late November and December with playoffs on the line. I agree, that's gone. Time for change, yes. The loser go home fan atmosphere will not return with the entire fanbase, it'll be a social engagement like the REA.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Or the fan base needs to feel less entitled. There were no sure wins with this team this year, except the first two games, and certainly none in the upcoming playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
It’s a fan issue/coddling thing, not a team/field product issue IMO.
Poind the hell out of all opponents or we are pissed/disengaged and questioning players and coaches.
Pound all opponents and we want better competition.
It’s a change but the regular season in FBS has more excitement because it’s essentially the playoffs. In the G5 essentially every week is a playoff if you have big aspirations. Some people won’t like that but most NDSU fans also pay attention and are aware of FBS football and how it works. Consistent success on the field is the key. It would be naive to think that NDSU will maintain the level of winning that they have done over the past 12 years but I don’t think it’s unrealistic to believe we will be able to challenge to win any g5 conference we join once we get acclimated.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
The level of excitement was also built off the FBS games and the success we had in them. Without that I’m not sure the excitement would have reached the level it did.
I mean this as no disrespect to the team in anyway. Winning a championship is hard at any level and maintaining the level of excellence this program has is a testament to the consistent commitment and hard work they put in. The reality is no team, no matter how good, should win 9 out of 11 championships. It shouldn’t happen in high school let alone at the second highest level of college football in this country. NDSU is a football focused school in a basketball focused subdivision. The purpose of FCS football is to control football costs for schools that want to focus on division one basketball. Again, not meant to take away from the team’s accomplishments. Winning 9 out of 11 is remarkable simply because of the mental toughness it takes not to get complacent. That being said, if we’re competing with peer institutions who put the same resources into football as we do, winning 9 out of 11 doesn’t happen. More and more fans are realizing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAS4127
you guys crack me up.
there is ONLY 1 CHANCE at NDSU in the COLLEGE FOOTBALL PLAYOFFS and that's to join the MWC or AAC for that G5 spot.
that should be the ONLY GOAL NOW. we've done frisco 9 times FFS.
You are wrong.t also includes all the conferences that arent p5.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
no duh. but MWC and AAC are the top ranked conferences and they will take the #1 team from the top ranked G5 Conference. follow along man.Quote:
Originally Posted by 56BISON73
Why do I feel you wouldn’t post this if the MBB team was dominant at DI level and won 9 of 11 conference titles and made it to NCAA playoffs all those years?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I wouldn’t have because they wouldn’t have won 9 of 11 “national” championships. If we would have won 9 of 11 MVFC championships and 2 of 11 national championships, I believe I would not be posting this either. I think the FCS would be more exciting to fans. Fans may be coddled, spoiled, entitled, everything you say but the lifeblood of a college ath. dept. is fans and boosters. I don’t think it’s unfathomable to understand why fans are less excited about the FCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAS4127
From what you are saying, I gather we have a different perspective/view of things re: football and watching/analyzing games and schemes. That’s ok. We get our personal satisfaction in different ways when it come to football.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Football has been in my and part of my life basically forever, so I likely have a biased opinion. I’ll admit that.
That’s probably accurate given our different experiences with football. I’ve always been a fan, you’ve experienced it differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by CAS4127
I can respect the high level of football that NDSU plays while at the same time realize that there are very few teams that are capable of competing with the Bison consistently at the FCS level. I talk football with my coworker who is a Michigan fan all the time. 10 years ago when I told him that NDSU line play was similar to Wisconsin/Iowa in terms of quality/consistency/depth he said I was full of shit. After watching numerous NDSU games over the past 10 years, he sees it. The programs ability to recruit and develop talent that can compete at that level is obvious and remarkable. What’s not remarkable is then in turn using that talent to compete against far too many teams at the FCS level who can’t come close to competing at that level. The only saving grace we have currently is that the MVFC typically has 3-4 teams per year that can give us a game. The Big Sky might have 2-3. Outside of that it will be very, very rare now that JMU and SHSU are gone. As a fan, I would love to have more opportunities to see them match up with teams equal or greater to them.
https://twitter.com/MiamiOHFootball/...R0f1ljU5NE0A4g
Is Trip to the Bahamas better than Frisco?
Depends if you just defrauded billions in crypto or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
That ranking can change year to year plus you have to win the conference that year also so quit acting like its a lock unless you have a magic wand to make all the stars align.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Make the wrong move and you are on the outside again with a lock for a trip to Detroit for the Meinike-beefogrady-blowme-brakejob bowl. Boy that sounds like fun.
You don't have to accept a bowl game invitation. You guys don't seem too keen on the bowl game thing..Quote:
Originally Posted by 56BISON73
Probably for the 600 fans that show up. Good news on that one you could bring your kids and they could run around the stadium the entire game and not get lost in the shuffle. It would be like a Hoople 6 man game.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
A majority of bowl games are horrible attendance, atmosphere and product. All for money (losing) and show. Sure, take the bowl game, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend to care about most of them, pretty much like the entire general public.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
If you asked the entirety of the NDSU fanbase if they prefer the structure of the FCS playoffs to the FBS Bowl system, I think a large majority would say they prefer the structure of the FCS playoffs. Now if you asked them if they preferred the level of competition in the FCS or the FBS, a majority would say they prefer the FBS competition. Early on in our run, the FCS structure outweighed the level of competition. We hadn't accomplished as much, there were more teams in the FCS that could compete at a high level which provided more opportunities for intriguing games. I think if you asked the fanbase now, the split would be more even between FCS playoffs and FBS competition and may even be weighted towards a preference of the FBS competition. A big negative of moving to FBS is that as a G5 team the bowl games available to them seem a bit uninspiring. That's a valid point. However, I think the preference that many NDSU fans are starting to have is that in FBS we would likely see 7-8 of 13 games be competitive versus now in the FCS where 3-4 games of 15 would be competitive. The only way for that to change in the FCS is for us to come back to the pack which I think is a bit deflating for fans as well. This season is a great example of that. We have had more competitive games this season than we have typically had. However, most fans realize that it is because the Bison have not performed up to the levels that we have previously seen and not some movement by our conference or the greater FCS to catch up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
Really good take.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
It's clear they need to be FBS. Despite my thoughts here, I'm all for that. I just don't think it's going to be as fascinating as the louder FBS fans think.
I think as fans we are going to have to adjust our thinking from a postseason focus in FCS to a regular season focus in FBS. The bowl games alone aren't going to drive the bus on fan excitement as much as the playoffs do now in the FCS. We're not going to get the best of both worlds because that does not and will not exist for a school in NDSU's position.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
It won't be as fascinating as Chapo claims. Doesn't have to be. Just has to be more fascinating than the current state of the FCS.
This is where we are all at. People keep taking Lakes' nonsense and conflating it with everyone else on the FBS side of the spectrum. I've been saying it for years. Being FBS, you trade the potential for 2 great playoff games for 2 great non-con games. After that the conference is much more competitive. Then there's the years where we're a top 25 team and people can start talking about CFP (but doesn't really factor into my equation, CFP would just be gravy). That's enough for me on the football side.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I've said it a million times, but the biggest jump for us in going to a MW or MAC is in the non-football sports. We've hit our ceiling in the Summit and it's time to move on from that too. Our MBB program is the Jacksonville State of the OVC variety. Very good performance inside of a bad conference but when it comes time to take on the big dogs we can't hang. Same with baseball, apparently softball now, volleyball, etc.
The bowl system sucks and it is terrible. Every year where NDSU goes 7-5, 8-4 there's going to be thoughts of FCS and its awesome playoff system. Hopefully the NCAA is able to get its head out of its ass and create a G5 playoff system, but we'll see. Until then, ask any FBS move-up if they would ever think about coming back...
I think that is a really good point regarding the non-football sports at NDSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
What function would a G5 playoff serve? The "best" G5 team won't even be there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Great post, won't disagree with anything there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
or und like this message I got from a players familyQuote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
I loved the 1-AA playoff when Nevada was in the Big Sky. It was indeed big fun. I did not enjoy Big Sky olympic sports, though. I see the bowl games as a nice reward for the players but the regular season, particularly the conference schedule, is the most compelling part. Nevada is 'lucky' to be able to play comparable schools year after year. These are schools I respect with great fans. Had Nevada not moved up when they did, I am not sure they would still have football. You do have to grow or risk stagnation. But, I certainly don't regret the stretch in 1-AA, even though it really hurt the basketball program. There are tradeoffs for everything. I certainly understand your desire to move to FBS. It is not easy but schools can thrive in G5.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I think that's where a growing segment of the NDSU fanbase is at. Our history in DII and FCS have been a major part of the present and future and it shouldn't be looked down upon in anyway. It was part of the journey. But now it is time to move the athletic department onto the next phase. Sometimes it is difficult to express that sentiment without it coming off as disparaging towards the present and the past. The story of NDSU football particularly is compelling because of the path that we have taken. We can celebrate that and still acknowledge that it is time to move forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
I think he is expressing a desire for the CFP to only include the P5 and for the G5 to have their own playoff infrastructure, in which case the best G5 would no longer be a part of the CFP.Quote:
Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness
Now do the 2021 game with NDSU at the Alerus....which was insanity, due to 1. Rivalry/hatred and 2. Great mix of UND and NDSU fans. But hey, that's geography and history for ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
No I think the G5 needs to have the ability to have a seat at the CFP if it's justified. Just one and probably only if they are undefeated against non-CFP teams or something like that - I haven't put much thought into it yet. It also needs to be the actual best G5 team, not just the conference champ from the best conference. Gonna have the Hawaii's of the world screwing it up for the Boise's the way they're talking about it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
What purpose does the entire G5 season serve? What purpose does the current bowl system serve? Whether or not the conference champ from the top conference is in the G5 playoff or not seems like the smallest travesty to get hung up on. G5 playoff would be great football, make money for the teams, provide fans with an awesome experience, let conferences go head to head, etc. All the good parts of the FCS playoffs.
I apologize for misinterpreting your post. That being said, I disagree with your take. If you remove the best G5 in certain years, there will be an asterisk next to the G5 team who won that year's championship. I feel like it would diminish the product. I know this is very hypothetical but stay with me, if in 2016 the Bison would have not lost to SDSU in the regular season and would have been undefeated with a P5 victory and there would have been a mechanism in which NDSU could have played in an FBS Bowl game and they chose to. Then JMU ends up winning the FCS Championship just like they did but NDSU didn't participate. JMU would have always had it held over their head that NDSU didn't compete. However, that didn't occur and they beat NDSU on the field and they have 100% claim to that championship without any debate. I think you're either a part of the G5 or your a part of the P5. There's no in between. That's why I don't envision a split ever coming. The G5 wants to be attached to the P5 even with all of the obstacles that come along with it. If they wanted to be a part of a separate playoff structure all of the FCS teams that have moved up would have chosen to stay. The only way a split happens is if the P5 kicks the G5 to the curb. I think the top 25-50% of the P5 may be ok with that but the bottom of the P5 needs the G5 in order to get wins and stay relevant to their fanbases. Maybe they would/could still have some crossover but if they chose to separate from the G5 they aren't going to allow P5 teams to schedule as many G5 teams as they want. They would probably regulate it just like they do now where they are allowed to schedule 1 FCS game as a counter.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
If you see no value to a G5 season you are likely to be quite disappointed with FBSQuote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Their heads are out of their asses. What they have to figure out is how to translate revenue from 45 bowl games where 90 teams get to participate to 23 or 31 playoff games that only involve 24 or 32 teams. And instead of those matchups being potentially even there are going to be early round games that week be mismatches. I'm not sure the bowl season will survive a 12 team tournament let alone further expansion. They'll eventuality figure it out, but I guarantee G5 schools will be on the short end if the new deal. There may still be bowl games (other levels do them now) but they'll have very little media coverage and be more regional.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
I believe there are close to 70 P5 schools with a few more on the way. Most years the 12 team playoff will have 11 P5's. That leaves a whole lot of P5 schools not in the playoff. They probably don't look down their nose at bowl games like you folks do. I suspect there will still be bowl games.
A G5 only playoff would be a non event with very limited interest..
Very much along the lines of a AAA baseball playoff.
The FCS playoff is cool because the winner becomes the champ of FCS. A G5 only champ? Meh...
The more rounds of playoffs, the more they interfere with the bowl schedule. The more rounds you add, the more likely they will need to be hosted on campus. Most fans aren't going to travel to a conference championship game, 2 or 3 playoff games, and then a national championship. That's 4 out 5 straight road games. A lot of Georgia fans aren't traveling to a road game in Dallas in the quartfinals against Clemson, knowing they likley win and may have USC in the semi finals in Phoenix and possibly Ohio State in the finals in Tampa. That's a lot of road trips.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
Even if they use existing bowl games for those, it greatly reduces the activities around the bowl games. If you've never been, the game is just one of many things taking place. If those activities go away, the sponsors go away. If the bowl games continue, they will be on CBSSN or local broadcasts. And even more players opt out or transfer. They may be fun for the teams and their core fans, but there won't be a huge TV appeal.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk
Completely agree, and also with your a lot of your other thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
These are two reasons I would *never* want to join cusa:
1) I would absolutely hate the regular season games. It would be way worse than what we have now.
2) It would be a one in a million chance of getting the CFP slot. Even if you play/beat a couple P5's I don't think that would be enough. The conferences that are getting these bids have more than one conference team that can beat a P5. How your conference performs matters a lot, and the overall strength of the conference matters. Not much different than FCS really. How many NEC teams are ever going to land an a FCS at large bid? I think of the G5 CFP bid as really being one "G5 only at large" slot. You must be in one of the top G5 conferences to have a realistic shot at it. The other 11 slots will definitely go to the P5.
I want to see us move to FBS, but for the *right* opportunity. That means MWC or AAC really, or possibly MAC as a short-mid term option. I could live with 5-10 years in the MAC if that's our only path and the financials work.
As much as people belly-ache about FCS, the playoffs is one thing they do right. For FBS it's a very exclusionary system unless you are in a P5 conference. Which goes back to - if you don't enjoy the regular season games and in most years a "random name" bowl, then it's going to be absolutely miserable.
Often times those 'random name' bowl games are against P5 foes. I do think they could have fewer bowls but they aren't designed to be big revenue enhancers..It is a reward for the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
I just don't have all this animosity towards P5 schools. Most have them have been really well compensated for decades. G5 schools get transfers from P5 quite frequently. It isn't just a hopeless morass at all. College sports can and are fun no matter the level. If you really want to play MW schools and respect the conference, you will be welcomed by the fans..If you are just going mercenary on a big money grab and different initials you are going to be disappointed.
The structure of the FCS playoffs is great. The teams that fill the lines on the brackets by and large are not. SDSU’s team this year is strong. Probably their most talented that they’ve had overall. Sac St. has a really nice resume. They run a somewhat quirky offense that is going to give people problems. Montana State seems more physical than they have typically been and can run the ball well. UIW seems like SHSU reincarnated. They have been explosive on offense but will they be able to be physical enough in the trenches against the top teams. You get past that and it’s a whole bunch of meh. Maybe Weber. Maybe Samford. Maybe Furman. I just don’t see it. If you look at the long term “programs” that are going to stick. SDSU is there. Montana St. Is close if not already there. Sac St. seems like they are a coaching change away from sinking back into mediocrity. Montana just doesn’t seem to be able to really get back to what they were. UNI has regressed. The excitement of the playoffs is really only the semis and finals. I think it’s why the excitement is waning. From my perspective the difference between FCS and CUSA is negligible. There are valid arguments for both. CUSA will likely be a step up in non football sports overall over the Summit. I really hope that when we move it’s not the CUSA but every year that goes by makes CUSA more attractive and the FCS less attractive to me personally.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns