A new and better FBS thread

Maybe you should stand on a stool and type with the caps lock on so they know you're serious eh.

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Originally Posted by BigLakeBison

I seem to recall you stating that you have no interest in attending games currently because you don't find it to be worth the money or time you spend. Interesting that you are calling out others as petty that are making similar choices. You do you though.

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Or was I because I have kids in fall activities. 😂. Good try though.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

It’s not remotely close to the same thing and you know it. Nice try.

I don’t donate more than I already do (which is a substantial amount considering it’s not going towards season tickets or any other membership perks, FYI), similar to many others, because I don’t see how my donation is helping anything. If we’re just stuck in FCS and we can never do any better than go toe to toe with teachers colleges, sdsu and the Montanas then so be it. I have a long career ahead of me and would like to retire early. That’s more important to me than hanging up a couple extra touchdowns in Frisco against Montana state. There are quite a few young professionals in the MSP that feel the same way that I do.

This of course would all change if we had a publicly stated vision or goal for moving onto something greater. But we don’t have that we have an AD who makes snide remarks about us not selling out doesn’t help us get an FBS invite.

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It is, actually, remotely close. Because for whatever petty personal choice, each side chooses not to support the current programs and athletes who chose to continue their education and athletic careers.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Or was I because I have kids in fall activities. ��. Good try though.

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I'm sure family factors into your decision. That's not necessarily how you've previously portrayed your decision here. It's not just about being busy for any of us. Most of us are busy and have been busy throughout this run. The reality is that if we feel something provides value to our lives we will make time for it. There were more people/fans doing that in the early part of the run than they are now. The level of competition and the atmosphere that results from it is a major factor in that. Them choosing to not make time for NDSU football is not petty. It's a direct result of them not finding as much value in the product as they used to.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

holding out money because NDSU isn’t FBS….that’s similar to a UND fan saying they won’t support their program because the Sioux nickname.
if someone is too petty to support the kids and program as they are so be it.

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I support the program as it is but I'm sure I will increase donations once the move happens.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

It is, actually, remotely close. Because for whatever petty personal choice, each side chooses not to support the current programs and athletes who chose to continue their education and athletic careers.

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Your lack of logic is astounding. Fans not choosing to invest in the program more is not petty. We all make decisions based on our own circumstances and priorities. The fact that more people are putting less of a priority on investing their time and money into the program should concern the administration.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Yeah, we've talked about it on here when our other resident UNDer made the same point. We just raised $586M dollars in 6 years. I would've guessed the giving was tapped out after that too. FBS or no FBS.

But you're missing the point. NDSU can absolutely make the budgets work with the increase in media $ and postseason $ disbursements by the conference, in the right conference. That much is pretty clear. We're talking something of the order of $5M increase on Day 1. No glaring need to increase the level of giving that is already taking place. Although there certainly are folks who are sitting on the sideline waiting for a reason to give again.

He may have been talking about the CUSA, where there is no media $ and about to be essentially no postseason $ disbursements. Hard to tell, they've chosen to be incredibly vague, non-committal and coy about everything once FBS gets brought up.

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So, you state the outgoing president said the money was there, have already talked about the quotes where he said he actually isn't sure that it is and then your response is, eh, whatever, you know better than him I guess?
Bold strategy, but I'm intrigued by the double down.

Yes, different affiliations would require different budgets, which again, was something he directly addressed. The interview was also from 4 months ago, he was well aware of where the fundraising campaign was at. Maybe being in the middle of something that turned out so well is exactly what gave him the insight to make the comments he did? And are you actually saying that a permanent 20%+ increase over today's baseline budget isn't a glaringly big deal or that NDSU's current budget wouldn't need to increase all that much to be at an acceptable FBS level? Because neither of those seem like statements I'd want to get behind.

But again, the actual point of my previous post was that you're claiming that DB is on record stating something that is more or less the exact opposite of what he actually stated. I'd would be curious to see where ML is on record saying the numbers work though.

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Originally Posted by abc123

So, you state the outgoing president said the money was there, have already talked about the quotes where he said he actually isn't sure that it is and then your response is, eh, whatever, you know better than him I guess?
Bold strategy, but I'm intrigued by the double down.

Yes, different affiliations would require different budgets, which again, was something he directly addressed. The interview was also from 4 months ago, he was well aware of where the fundraising campaign was at. Maybe being in the middle of something that turned out so well is exactly what gave him the insight to make the comments he did? And are you actually saying that a permanent 20%+ increase over today's baseline budget isn't a glaringly big deal or that NDSU's current budget wouldn't need to increase all that much to be at an acceptable FBS level? Because neither of those seem like statements I'd want to get behind.

But again, the actual point of my previous post was that you're claiming that DB is on record stating something that is more or less the exact opposite of what he actually stated. I'd would be curious to see where ML is on record saying the numbers work though.

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It’s not about the additional fundraising, it’s about the additional revenue that would be coming in from the FBS conference.

I didn’t say he said there would be a huge influx of donor money. You’re not reading what I’m writing. Common problem on here.

Guess what percentage of NDSU’s athletic budget $5M would be. Then go to the knight foundation database that our local grave robber apologist keeps bringing up every 6 months to see how much NDSU could be getting from a quality G5 conference.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

It is, actually, remotely close. Because for whatever petty personal choice, each side chooses not to support the current programs and athletes who chose to continue their education and athletic careers.

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The fighting Sioux thing was about a bunch of weirdos lashing out in a strange way about a logo and mascot. They took their ball and went home over a picture.

What we’re talking about here is the diminishing return on investment of donations to an organization that is already doing quite well thank you very much.

I would love to see how you connect the two in a way other than people deciding to not donate as much.

But if you wanna compare teammaker numbers I’m more than happy to show you mine.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

The fighting Sioux thing was about a bunch of weirdos lashing out in a strange way about a logo and mascot. They took their ball and went home over a picture.

What we’re talking about here is the diminishing return on investment of donations to an organization that is already doing quite well thank you very much.

I would love to see how you connect the two in a way other than people deciding to not donate as much.

But if you wanna compare teammaker numbers I’m more than happy to show you mine.

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NDSU92 again.

"A lot of FBS programs are in real trouble on the cost of the program not being sustained by the revenue that is produced by it. So it would, for us, would require a league in that the television revenues were substantial, that our fans could still go to away games, that our fans would recognize the schools by name and reputation and that the cost would be minimal, of any at all, at the end of the day.

"That's a heck of a lot to ask. But for NDSU, we don't believe that we have the wherewithal to get into a situation that's going to require a lot of new resources." -- Dean Bresciani


Believe Chapo, not Dean.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

He was thinking really loud when he was typing too.

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Think he forgot to take his meds this morning

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

"A lot of FBS programs are in real trouble on the cost of the program not being sustained by the revenue that is produced by it. So it would, for us, would require a league in that the television revenues were substantial, that our fans could still go to away games, that our fans would recognize the schools by name and reputation and that the cost would be minimal, of any at all, at the end of the day.

"That's a heck of a lot to ask. But for NDSU, we don't believe that we have the wherewithal to get into a situation that's going to require a lot of new resources." -- Dean Bresciani


Believe Chapo, not Dean.

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That sounds like MWC to me. I'm skeptical even MAC can meet that criteria.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

The fighting Sioux thing was about a bunch of weirdos lashing out in a strange way about a logo and mascot. They took their ball and went home over a picture.

What we’re talking about here is the diminishing return on investment of donations to an organization that is already doing quite well thank you very much.

I would love to see how you connect the two in a way other than people deciding to not donate as much.

But if you wanna compare teammaker numbers I’m more than happy to show you mine.

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Whiners whining about their “investment.” At both schools. Carry on with your biggest crank contest, sounds fascinating.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Ha!! They sound like some of the folks on the MWC board. Long way from ND to Nevada, true

But NDSU is the only school of the four that the MWC has publicly mentioned as a target, and I don't think the Montana schools are ready yet

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I think the statement that the top 5 FCS schools would be competitive against the top 5 MW in football right now is the interesting part. That is something you folks have been saying all along. I agree that a minor G5 like the MW is not a large jump up in competition.

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Originally Posted by MWC

I agree that a minor G5 like the MW is not a large jump up in competition.

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I did a Massey side-by-side, MAC v MVFC, somewhere here a while back. There isn't much difference there.

und fans go back to your niche sport please with your 24 yr old canucks, let the big boys talk here.

#1 yes NDSU would absolutely INCREASE DONATIONS if they went to Mountain West, FBS, etc & there's money NOT being donated NOW because they are trophy chasing in the fcs

#2 for the umpteenth time, Dean was ready to retire in 2017 and Larson was just happy to be here instead of stony fucking brook, neither of those 2 had ANY DESIRE to be FBS and I will say SHAME ON THEM

#3 G5 has 1 spot at the CFPlayoff starting 2024. NDSU 100000% needs to be in on that, not doing so is a dereliction of duty

"A lot of FBS programs are in real trouble on the cost of the program not being sustained by the revenue that is produced by it." <- How would DB know that if he's been lame duck collectin' a check since 2017. That sounds more like a man who's looked.

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Originally Posted by MWC

I think the statement that the top 5 FCS schools would be competitive against the top 5 MW in football right now is the interesting part. That is something you folks have been saying all along. I agree that a minor G5 like the MW is not a large jump up in competition.

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Are you already ceding power to the Sunbelt? But yes, NDSU would fit right in with the top G5. It’s true

So really, the reasons for NDSU to make the jump to FBS are (i) more access to P5s, (ii) access to CFP (symbolic for the most part), (iii) access to more money and TV slots, and (iv) because we’ve worn out our welcome in FCS

*Oh, and to leave und behind forever so we don’t have to tolerate their obnoxious fans on here

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

"A lot of FBS programs are in real trouble on the cost of the program not being sustained by the revenue that is produced by it." <- How would DB know that if he's been lame duck collectin' a check since 2017. That sounds more like a man who's looked.

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he can say whatever he wants, it's called deflection.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

und fans go back to your niche sport please with your 24 yr old canucks, let the big boys talk here.

#1 yes NDSU would absolutely INCREASE DONATIONS if they went to Mountain West, FBS, etc & there's money NOT being donated NOW because they are trophy chasing in the fcs

#2 for the umpteenth time, Dean was ready to retire in 2017 and Larson was just happy to be here instead of stony fucking brook, neither of those 2 had ANY DESIRE to be FBS and I will say SHAME ON THEM

#3 G5 has 1 spot at the CFPlayoff starting 2024. NDSU 100000% needs to be in on that, not doing so is a dereliction of duty

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OMG FBS sounds like “perfect world.” It’s so easy and everyone would just throw money around like a stupid club.

Actually the second point is just pathetic for the people sitting in money. I guess they don’t give a shit about the athletes who chose NDSU then.

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

Are you already ceding power to the Sunbelt? But yes, NDSU would fit right in with the top G5. It’s true

So really, the reasons for NDSU to make the jump to FBS are (i) more access to P5s, (ii) access to CFP (symbolic for the most part), (iii) access to more money and TV slots, and (iv) because we’ve worn out our welcome in FCS

*Oh, and to leave und behind forever so we don’t have to tolerate their obnoxious fans on here

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Every once in awhile, the MW has the highest rated football conference in G5..This year they might be the worst, so far. If your goal is to earn the automatic 6 slot regularly, the AAC is the better choice. I think the Sun Belt is really on the rise..

You could well be invited to the MW soon. That will get you out of FCS. I am not sure it is the fabulous ticket to ride folks here imagine the MW and G5, in general, would be.

It is a full on slog all the time..

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Actually the second point is just pathetic for the people sitting in money. I guess they don’t give a shit about the athletes who chose NDSU then.

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What makes you think your opinion about how other people spend their own money means a damn thing? Because I would give even more than I do now, absolutely doesn't mean that I "don't give a shit about the athletes who chose NDSU". I give plenty. Less than some but more than most, which I'm pretty sure includes you.

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Originally Posted by MWC

Every once in awhile, the MW has the highest rated football conference in G5..This year they might be the worst, so far. If your goal is to earn the automatic 6 slot regularly, the AAC is the better choice. I think the Sun Belt is really on the rise..

You could well be invited to the MW soon. That will get you out of FCS. I am not sure it is the fabulous ticket to ride folks here imagine the MW and G5, in general, would be.

It is a full on slog all the time..

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I have to agree. I have never understood the pearl clutching over the MW.

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Originally Posted by Gully

What makes you think your opinion about how other people spend their own money means a damn thing? Because I would give even more than I do now, absolutely doesn't mean that I "don't give a shit about the athletes who chose NDSU". I give plenty. Less than some but more than most, which I'm pretty sure includes you.

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Meh he's just in rile-up mode. Or he thinks that people working hard to earn paychecks are just "sitting on money" lol

"Did you eat dinner last night? Oh I guess you don't care about starving people..."

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Originally Posted by MWC

Every once in awhile, the MW has the highest rated football conference in G5..This year they might be the worst, so far. If your goal is to earn the automatic 6 slot regularly, the AAC is the better choice. I think the Sun Belt is really on the rise..

You could well be invited to the MW soon. That will get you out of FCS. I am not sure it is the fabulous ticket to ride folks here imagine the MW and G5, in general, would be.

It is a full on slog all the time..

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Would you be alright with Nevada dropping down to the FCS? Even if you were, would you be happy about it? Would you prefer it?

The reason the MW gets brought up is because, again, it's the only conference that's gone on record as having had NDSU come up in discussions. The only one.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

It’s not about the additional fundraising, it’s about the additional revenue that would be coming in from the FBS conference.

I didn’t say he said there would be a huge influx of donor money. You’re not reading what I’m writing. Common problem on here.

Guess what percentage of NDSU’s athletic budget $5M would be. Then go to the knight foundation database that our local grave robber apologist keeps bringing up every 6 months to see how much NDSU could be getting from a quality G5 conference.

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Well, you're getting close to explaining why the MWC hasn't invited NDSU at this point.
The MWC annual payout is currently $4 million annually, which is on average $1.8 million more than NDSU is currently getting from its media contract. However you aren't actually gaining the $4 million, since you need to subtract what NDSU is getting on their current media deal because the MWC deal takes your primary and secondary media rights.

While the MW currently has a few more units than the Summit in the NCAA basketball payouts, that isn't going to more than a couple thousand at most.

So, since the additional revenue is coming from a new FBS conference and not additional fundraising, where does the remainder of magical $5 million minimum additional revenue come from? Obviously the MWC will be renegotiating their deal soon enough and will likely increase the payout by some (depending on who is or isn't left in the conference), but again that leads to the questions, why would they want to spread it around further?

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Would you be alright with Nevada dropping down to the FCS? Even if you were, would you be happy about it? Would you prefer it?

The reason the MW gets brought up is because, again, it's the only conference that's gone on record as having had NDSU come up in discussions. The only one.

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No, I would not want to drop down to FCS. That would really hurt the oly programs. Nevada is having a down year in football this season but overall the Pack has done well in their 30 years of FBS. Having said that..The Big Sky years in the 80's were fun. Football and basketball were in the hunt pretty much every season. Without any national profile or any sort of brand, NV earned an invitation to a FBS conference. It has been good.

As for the MW being the only conference who has gone on record saying they have had discussions about NDSU. I don't dispute that but the MW has discussions about a whole lot of schools all the time. I also imagine other conferences have discussed NDSU but didn't announce it..That is not unusual.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

Actually the second point is just pathetic for the people sitting in money. I guess they don’t give a shit about the athletes who chose NDSU then.

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If all scholarships are currently 100% funded in the budget and FCOA is fully funded than I am thinking that any additional monies taken in have very little to do with the individual athletes. Any additional monies that are generated would go towards coaching, staff, facilities, travel, etc. Given the fact that we have won 9 of 11 titles in FCS, those increased expenditures are not needed if we stay FCS. If we move to FBS those additional funds would be required in order to be competitive. Hence the reason for many to not increase their donations or investments in the program until it is necessary.

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Originally Posted by abc123

... but again that leads to the questions, why would they want to spread it around further?

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This is the problem UWash has right now: they don't bring enough to the B1G to warrant a full share, and thus they don't warrant a B1G invitation (unless it's a far reduced share). To the B1G, the UW juice is not worth the squeeze; adding UW doesn't bring at least a current share to the B1G table.

They don't bring what they eat to the potluck, so why invite them and add the mouth to feed.

" ... we don't believe that we have the wherewithal to get into a situation that's going to require a lot of new resources." -- DB

" ... if the right opportunity came up -- and right being defined as one that wouldn't require a lot of new resources -- we'd have to take a look at it ... " -- DB

DB left the road map: If not "a lot of new resources" were needed.

So something new, but that looked a lot like today, so needing few new resources. A few new, a few familiar, faces maybe? Haven't I said the answer is to build a northern entry-level FBS group, "Great West 2.0". I believe that's effectively what DB is alluding to.

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Originally Posted by abc123

Well, you're getting close to explaining why the MWC hasn't invited NDSU at this point.
The MWC annual payout is currently $4 million annually, which is on average $1.8 million more than NDSU is currently getting from its media contract. However you aren't actually gaining the $4 million, since you need to subtract what NDSU is getting on their current media deal because the MWC deal takes your primary and secondary media rights.

While the MW currently has a few more units than the Summit in the NCAA basketball payouts, that isn't going to more than a couple thousand at most.

So, since the additional revenue is coming from a new FBS conference and not additional fundraising, where does the remainder of magical $5 million minimum additional revenue come from? Obviously the MWC will be renegotiating their deal soon enough and will likely increase the payout by some (depending on who is or isn't left in the conference), but again that leads to the questions, why would they want to spread it around further?

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Am I missing something? Look at the Knight Newhouse data. All MW teams are at $5.25M from NCAA postseason/conference/media distributions. NDSU is at $600k.

Apples to apples

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

" ... we don't believe that we have the wherewithal to get into a situation that's going to require a lot of new resources." -- DB

" ... if the right opportunity came up -- and right being defined as one that wouldn't require a lot of new resources -- we'd have to take a look at it ... " -- DB

DB left the road map: If not "a lot of new resources" were needed.

So something new, but that looked a lot like today, so needing few new resources. A few new, a few familiar, faces maybe? Haven't I said the answer is to build a northern entry-level FBS group, "Great West 2.0". I believe that's effectively what DB is alluding to.

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I mean I guess you read that to mean that the only route forward is by including your little school in a plan to go FBS.

I read it to mean that the CUSA as it currently sits is a dead idea.

Obviously the point of being vague is that everyone can read into it how they want lol

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

" ... we don't believe that we have the wherewithal to get into a situation that's going to require a lot of new resources." -- DB

" ... if the right opportunity came up -- and right being defined as one that wouldn't require a lot of new resources -- we'd have to take a look at it ... " -- DB

DB left the road map: If not "a lot of new resources" were needed.

So something new, but that looked a lot like today, so needing few new resources. A few new, a few familiar, faces maybe? Haven't I said the answer is to build a northern entry-level FBS group, "Great West 2.0". I believe that's effectively what DB is alluding to.

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so, 1) conferences won’t add teams that don’t add more than their fair share to the revenue pie, 2) we won’t go to a conference that requires NDSU to dedicate significantly more new resources. So obviously the answer is to put together a coalition of schools that are less prepared than us to move up in order to facilitate a move up? In what world does this make sense?

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I read it to mean that the CUSA as it currently sits is a dead idea.

Obviously the point of being vague is that everyone can read into it how they want lol

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CUSA would add lots of new travel cost and little new revenue so yes, dead.

And your second sentence: 100%.

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

So obviously the answer is to put together a coalition of schools that are less prepared than us to move up in order to facilitate a move up?

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The ghost of the Great West is on line one for you.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

The ghost of the Great West is on line one for you.

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Yeah, all it needs is for the tiny FCS schools to get together and agree to cut scholarship maximums at least twice and the resurrection ritual will be complete.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Am I missing something? Look at the Knight Newhouse data. All MW teams are at $5.25M from NCAA postseason/conference/media distributions. NDSU is at $600k.

Apples to apples

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First off, none of it is going to be apples to apples due to the shell game that is college athletics. That being said, NDSU signed their Learfield deal in 2020. I have no clue why they are reporting it differently but it doesn't change what they are making off of it, regardless of how they report it. So again, where is that $5 million coming from?

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Am I missing something? Look at the Knight Newhouse data. All MW teams are at $5.25M from NCAA postseason/conference/media distributions. NDSU is at $600k.

Apples to apples

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College financial reporting for athletics really isn't as uniform as you might imagine.
Different states have different rules, and schools intentionally and inadvertently categorize things differently.

My guess is the NDSU media deal is being incorporated in one of the categories like "other revenue" or "licensing" - technically we licensed our media rights.
It's probable MWC would be a $2-3m improvement, but not a $5m improvement on the revenue side.
Not sure how much the travel expenses would increase, but it would some. Maybe its a wash financially.

That being said, MWC is the best case scenario in G5 conferences for us.
If we can't make the numbers work for MWC, then we can't make FBS work at all.