A new and better FBS thread

and have 22 more scholarships and in the BIG TEN with that prestige of recruiting NDSU could mop up even more in the upper Midwest with our program.

Now, we aren't going to the big 10.

I was with a Okie from Muskogee the other night. he's a huge fan of OU and he swears that OU and Texas will go SEC soon. that would leave the Big 12 in disarray and create opportunities for Big 12/MWC mash up

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Originally Posted by Strongman

True. However, instead of EVERY game on the road, NDSU would play half their games @ FargoDome.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

and have 22 more scholarships and in the BIG TEN with that prestige of recruiting NDSU could mop up even more in the upper Midwest with our program.

Now, we aren't going to the big 10.

I was with a Okie from Muskogee the other night. he's a huge fan of OU and he swears that OU and Texas will go SEC soon. that would leave the Big 12 in disarray and create opportunities for Big 12/MWC mash up

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Would be really scary to see the SEC with 2 more powerhouse programs.

Doubt either of them wants to follow A&M or Missouri though. Would be a big helping of humble pie

they don't wanna follow them, however the SEC would cream themselves getting OU and UT.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

and have 22 more scholarships and in the BIG TEN with that prestige of recruiting NDSU could mop up even more in the upper Midwest with our program.

Now, we aren't going to the big 10.

I was with a Okie from Muskogee the other night. he's a huge fan of OU and he swears that OU and Texas will go SEC soon. that would leave the Big 12 in disarray and create opportunities for Big 12/MWC mash up

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The big 12 is already is disarray. In fact, those two schools leaving would make life easier fir the conference to move forward. They could get their conference television deal with very little blowback.

Now the number is six. They would need six schools to look like the other p5 conferences with a playoff. Off the top of my head, here we go:

BYU
UCF
USF
Cincinatti
Boise State
Fresno State

The last two are wildcards. I just threw out two programs that don't have p5 homes, which someone might argue deserve one over NDSU. The other four schools have already been mentioned. The other side of the equation that can't be left out is the big 12 might go after basketball first schools to compliment ku and a couple of others.

As fun as it is to think about it, ndsu doesn't seriously come up.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

well teams leaving Mountain West to the Big 12 opens the door for NDSU to the Mountain West.

If Wyoming and Colorado State & Air Force can be in the Mountain West, No reason NDSU shouldn't be!

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

well teams leaving Mountain West to the Big 12 opens the door for NDSU to the Mountain West.

If Wyoming and Colorado State & Air Force can be in the Mountain West, No reason NDSU shouldn't be!

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Problem is even with a move to the MWC it does nothing for NDSU in the realm of a national playoff or prestige. You either go big or go home. Pretty simple.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Problem is even with a move to the MWC it does nothing for NDSU in the realm of a national playoff or prestige. You either go big or go home. Pretty simple.

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You mean for once in his life, he's aiming too low with his fantasies???

I do agree with you though.

ESPN 2 & ESPNU with Mac games on.

Toledo looking good, the other game is in a downpour 6-3 battle

Mountain West trumps anything in the FCS get a clue

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

ESPN 2 & ESPNU with Mac games on.

Toledo looking good, the other game is in a downpour 6-3 battle

Mountain West trumps anything in the FCS get a clue

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It is unfortunate that they are playing on U and 2. As you have said in the past ---nobody watches those.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

It is unfortunate that they are playing on U and 2. As you have said in the past ---nobody watches those.

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Hahaha. Box.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

It is unfortunate that they are playing on U and 2. As you have said in the past ---nobody watches those.

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Nobody is at the games either. Pathetic.

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Originally Posted by NorthernBison

Nobody is at the games either. Pathetic.

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Look at the Tues and Wed games for the next 3 weeks. Its all the same teams.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Look at the Tues and Wed games for the next 3 weeks. Its all the same teams.

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Could you imagine the attendance in Fargo for a Tuesday game? Wouldn't be good to say the least.

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Originally Posted by pucknut9

Could you imagine the attendance in Fargo for a Tuesday game? Wouldn't be good to say the least.

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Especially with all the high school sports going on!!

You're not really bright. Every college football fan watches espn2 & espnu!!

NDSU would play 1 of these a year. Maybe a Wednesday too. But only 1 would be in Fargo!!

Grow up, we'd have a full house for them!!

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

You're not really bright. Every college football fan watches espn2 & espnu!!

NDSU would play 1 of these a year. Maybe a Wednesday too. But only 1 would be in Fargo!!

Grow up, we'd have a full house for them!!

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According to the TV schedule Akron, Kent State, Toledo, Bowling Green, Northern Ill, Buffalo all play on Tues or Wed for the next 3 weeks.
Ohio, U Mass and Ball State play Tues or Wed for the next two weeks.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

You're not really bright. Every college football fan watches espn2 & espnu!!

NDSU would play 1 of these a year. Maybe a Wednesday too. But only 1 would be in Fargo!!

Grow up, we'd have a full house for them!!

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I thought you were one of the people bitching our semi final games and championships were on espn u and 2 and not the flagship ESPN....maybe I'm wrong though

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

You're not really bright. Every college football fan watches espn2 & espnu!!

NDSU would play 1 of these a year. Maybe a Wednesday too. But only 1 would be in Fargo!!

Grow up, we'd have a full house for them!!

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You telling others to grow up. Pot kettle black me boy.

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Originally Posted by Honeybooboo

I thought you were one of the people bitching our semi final games and championships were on espn u and 2 and not the flagship ESPN....maybe I'm wrong though

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No I was mad that gene taylor turned down the espn 2 Friday night playoff games

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

No I was mad that gene taylor turned down the espn 2 Friday night playoff games

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Which by the way was the most electric game I've ever been to.

No reason a mid week conference game versus a nationally ranked northern Illinois squad can't be the same

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

Which by the way was the most electric game I've ever been to.

No reason a mid week conference game versus a nationally ranked northern Illinois squad can't be the same

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Because a playoff game means a little more than a conference game... I guess that's one reason.

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Originally Posted by BisonNation11

Because a playoff game means a little more than a conference game... I guess that's one reason.

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A home game vs a nationally ranked opponent>>>playoff game is another reason

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

Which by the way was the most electric game I've ever been to.

No reason a mid week conference game versus a nationally ranked northern Illinois squad can't be the same

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Yeah did you see the crowds at those game yesterday? Cant wait!!!!!

Pouring Rain. NDSU would Elevate that conference with our enthusiasm and fanbase!

NDSU vs Northern Illinois in Dome on a wednesday would be the biggest game in dome history!

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

Pouring Rain. NDSU would Elevate that conference with our enthusiasm and fanbase!

NDSU vs Northern Illinois in Dome on a wednesday would be the biggest game in dome history!

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You're talking about the Northern Illinois that is ranked 99 by Sagarin? (ISUb=98, SDSU=87, UNI=77, ISUr=62). Yeah, that would really get people excited.

well 2 years ago they were ranked #16 nationally.... this year the MAC records are not good.
NDSU would be walking away with the league. Toledo/Bowling Green arent too bad

Mid-American StandingsEAST CONF OVERALL
* - Bowling Green 4-1 6-3
Akron 2-3 4-5
Ohio 2-3 4-5
x - Massachusetts 2-3 2-7
x - Miami (OH) 2-4 2-8
Buffalo 1-3 3-5
x - Kent State 0-5 1-8
WEST CONF OVERALL
* - Toledo 5-0 6-3
* - Western Michigan 4-1 6-3
* - Northern Illinois 3-1 6-2
* - Central Michigan 4-2 6-4
Ball State 2-2 3-5
x - Eastern Michigan 1-4 2-7

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

Pouring Rain. NDSU would Elevate that conference with our enthusiasm and fanbase!

NDSU vs Northern Illinois in Dome on a wednesday would be the biggest game in dome history!

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But we wouldn't be in the Dome. We will be outdoors in the rain in our new 35,000 seat stadium that you are going to get built.:facepalm2:

The MAC is now what it always was. The NIU of a couple years ago was an anomaly. Not the norm.

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Originally Posted by NorthernBison

You're talking about the Northern Illinois that is ranked 99 by Sagarin? (ISUb=98, SDSU=87, UNI=77, ISUr=62). Yeah, that would really get people excited.

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Good thing there's others ranked higher then. Man that'd be fun.

You saw how stale the dome has become for the mvfc.

This team needs new blood

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

well 2 years ago they were ranked #16 nationally.... this year the MAC records are not good.
NDSU would be walking away with the league. Toledo/Bowling Green arent too bad

Mid-American StandingsEAST CONF OVERALL
* - Bowling Green 4-1 6-3
Akron 2-3 4-5
Ohio 2-3 4-5
x - Massachusetts 2-3 2-7
x - Miami (OH) 2-4 2-8
Buffalo 1-3 3-5
x - Kent State 0-5 1-8
WEST CONF OVERALL
* - Toledo 5-0 6-3
* - Western Michigan 4-1 6-3
* - Northern Illinois 3-1 6-2
* - Central Michigan 4-2 6-4
Ball State 2-2 3-5
x - Eastern Michigan 1-4 2-7

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So you're bored with what we have now because we're walking away with it with a chance to win a national championship but you want to trade that in for a league we'd as you said "walk away with" for a chance at no national championship? Come on. That's over the top even for you.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

well 2 years ago they were ranked #16 nationally.... this year the MAC records are not good.
NDSU would be walking away with the league. Toledo/Bowling Green arent too bad

Mid-American StandingsEAST CONF OVERALL
* - Bowling Green 4-1 6-3
Akron 2-3 4-5
Ohio 2-3 4-5
x - Massachusetts 2-3 2-7
x - Miami (OH) 2-4 2-8
Buffalo 1-3 3-5
x - Kent State 0-5 1-8
WEST CONF OVERALL
* - Toledo 5-0 6-3
* - Western Michigan 4-1 6-3
* - Northern Illinois 3-1 6-2
* - Central Michigan 4-2 6-4
Ball State 2-2 3-5
x - Eastern Michigan 1-4 2-7

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Wow. Look at that murderous schedule. pj fleck coming to Fargo??? That demand for a ticket would be insane

IF WE JOIN THE MAC...>WE CAN STAY IN THE DOME.

IF WE JOIN THE MWC WE NEED A NEW STADIUM.

its that simple

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

Good thing there's others ranked higher then. Man that'd be fun.

You saw how stale the dome has become for the mvfc.

This team needs new blood

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You have it backwards. Our schedule NOW is against higher ranked teams than we would face on the MAC.

The new blood would be bigger walkovers than we are seeing now. Not interested in the MAC competition.

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Originally Posted by NorthernBison

You have it backwards. Our schedule NOW is against higher ranked teams than we would face on the MAC.

The new blood would be bigger walkovers than we are seeing now. Not interested in the MAC competition.

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This is just an anomaly. Not every year is the mvfc going to be better than the mac. Besides a lot of that has to do with ndsu.


The valley without the ndsu I bet drops off a lot

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

IF WE JOIN THE MAC...>WE CAN STAY IN THE DOME.

IF WE JOIN THE MWC WE NEED A NEW STADIUM.

its that simple

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If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by td577

If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

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^^^^^^^^^^I support this post.^^^^^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by MNLonghorn10

This is just an anomaly. Not every year is the mvfc going to be better than the mac. Besides a lot of that has to do with ndsu.


The valley without the ndsu I bet drops off a lot

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It actually doesn't. I think it was Audit that posted the numbers if NDSU was replaced with an average FCS team. Still better than the MAC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by td577

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

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This sounds an awful lot like what Nick Saban and Karl Benson (Sun Belt commish) were talking about not all that long ago. Saban said something like the top 80 or so should play each other and be at one level (think: P5). Benson then said that the "next 5 conferences" (G5) would be the next level and that's where the SBC would be; but, there'd only be about 40 or so of them after reformation of FBS. The G5 would need 40 or so from FCS to make that new tier.

I believed it then; I still believe it; but, I also wonder how this 12 year television deal (four team playoff) will affect timetables.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by td577

If we stay where we are at and wait for everything to shake out with the P5, it might be the MWC and the dome. Or something even better with a television deal that would pay for the next stadium. This trying to jump up now business is getting kind of mundane and doesn't accomplish anything in the long run. There isn't a conference in the country that isn't aware of NDSU and what we can bring to the table when a shakeup happens and everyone is scrambling for a seat when the music stops. Making a move now expends all of our potential political and economical capital when it might be needed for another move. Why would we want to put ourselves in a position where we blow our wad now and be in no position to make the best move when the time comes for everyone to move?

If the P5 makes their move towards division 4, they have to take some G5 schools with to fill out conferences. The number is somewhere between 10-20 schools. I am not going to go back and do the research again, but I did it before in another post. When those 10-20 schools move, the G5 schools will have to bring in 10-20 more to fill their conferences. This isn't a NDSU and EWU here and there. This is half the big fluffy and half the MVFC. There is no way there will be a mandate to have 30k stadiums. At least not for 10 years. The new Division 1 or G5 level will be the next 80 schools. NDSU will be part of that number no matter how you slice it. It doesn't make any sense to go all out now and get into a conference when in 2 years they will have to take us. It won't matter if it is the Sunbelt, MAC, or MWC, because they will all be on equal footing. What separates them now is this illusion there are three levels of FBS. The P5 conferences, the bigger mid-majors, and the small mid-majors. In reality, we all know the MWC, MAC, and Sunbelt are really no different because none of them have a seat at the big boy's table and never will.

College football has to reset with the P5 conferences in their own division, the G5 conferences in their own division, and probably the disappearance of FCS and allow those schools who don't want to move up into the G5 level to drop to D2 in football only.
P5 or Division 4: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <- need 16 more schools to fill conferences. <-- here an argument could be made NDSU has averaged being in the top 80 overall for almost a decade.
G5 or Division 1: 5 conferences 16 teams each = 80 schools. <-- need 32 more schools to fill conferences.
FCS --> the 92 programs left drop to D2 or stay FCS.
D2: around 175
D3: around 200

The bottom line is if we make a move now, we limit ourselves when the big shakeup happens because we will have nothing left to make a move with. Even if we wait and the big shakeup doesn't happen, smaller shakeups have to happen. The Big 12 is a mess and will be forced to make a change and add schools. There is no way the other four conferences are going to have championships and let one conference not have one. The other thing that has to happen is Notre Dame and BYU will have to find homes. Again, the P5 will mandate their inclusion into a conference to be part of the big boy money and games. So at a minimum, all the conferences will have to be at 14 teams which means adding 4 more schools which are currently not considered P5 programs. I think they all go to 16 because it makes scheduling easier to have a 7 game divisional schedule. Especially when the SEC adds Texas and OU. They will have 16 and the rest will have to follow suit. ESPN will have a lot of say who goes where because they have 3/4s of all the television deals out there. They will say where NDSU goes in all of this. So latching on to a conference now doesn't matter. The move we make now is staying in their good graces, keep helping them build the FCS product, and when the time comes, do what they say.

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Great post.

Some things I am curious about:
How the Longhorn Network plays into anyones desire of Texas and how it could skew possible TV deals for any potential moves for Texas, it has already ruined the potential for a Big12 network.
Independants and their power...ok so only Notre Dame, but BYU thinks they are on the same level.
With 80 top tier teams, a 4 or 8 team playoff is not going to make people happy, I think you are looking at something closer to a 20 team playoff that includes 20% of the teams, and covers game throughout December, filling ESPN Tv slots.
Does the P5/G5 relationship stay the same scholarship # wise or do they try to introduce a wider gap. I would argue that you could keep the same # scholarships and introduce reasons for teams to move up/down such as not meeting minimum requirements, moving teams that have a sustained level of quality play up, ect ect...I think that opens up a system similar to what the euro sports leagues use.
How does this shake out for FCS schools that A)don't fully fund FB and B)don't offer FB scholarships.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

This sounds an awful lot like what Nick Saban and Karl Benson (Sun Belt commish) were talking about not all that long ago. Saban said something like the top 80 or so should play each other and be at one level (think: P5). Benson then said that the "next 5 conferences" (G5) would be the next level and that's where the SBC would be; but, there'd only be about 40 or so of them after reformation of FBS. The G5 would need 40 or so from FCS to make that new tier.

I believed it then; I still believe it; but, I also wonder how this 12 year television deal (four team playoff) will affect timetables.

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I don't think the television deal affects the timetable, at all. ESPN is the one with the deal and the one with the most to gain to break the deal and write up a new one. If you look at every television deal that doesn't look like it favors a P5 division setup is pretty much owned or majority owned by ESPN. The Big 12 screwed up by letting individual schools negotiate their own tier 3 contracts, but the schools that have the Big 12 bent over are Texas and OU which ESPN are majority owner's of their networks. The Big 12 wants nothing more then to tear up those papers, start over, and have a conference network with the numbers like the Big 10 or SEC contracts. It is because of having no conference network the other 8 schools are in no position to add anyone else to share the pot. So it is in everyone's best interest now if OU and Texas leave for the SEC or blow up their TV deals. They don't have leverage anymore. The Big 12 wants to get out from underneath them and create their own huge conference network deal. The only other deal that has any impact is the Kansas basketball network and they stand to gain a lot more money if they abandon that and get into a conference network. Everything is in place for a shakeup anytime ESPN is willing to support it. Everybody except the Big 12 is about 90% up and ready for a shakeup. In fact, I would say the other four conferences are being pretty nice about holding on to the Big 12 as being relevant.

If there is a shakeup and a P5 split from everyone else, it isn't going to be 12 years from now. It is going to be sometime in the next five years. There is too much money to be had out there and they don't want to share the part they create. There isn't much fear for the next level because there is a lot of money out there for them, as well. People can't get enough of college football. In fact, it will help everyone that it is better defined. I believe the only thing slowing the P5 movement down is the Big 12. Everything they have done is messed up and it needs to be cleaned up to move forward. Texas and OU either need to let the conference look like the other conferences or get out of the way. Either way, they have to give up their own networks.