Fall enrollment ndsu

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Originally Posted by abc123

Not sure on the accuracy of your numbers, not does it really matter, but those students pay the same amount of tuition.
UND is also bursting at the seams in regards to on campus housing.
Rather deal with those things instead of yelling at clouds, ignoring that excelling in online delivery is going to be vital to be successful in the future.

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Straight from the NDUS

Who's doing that? NDSU has turned it around on all of these fronts. I see happy people looking to grow further, not what you describe

Have fun tomorrow

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Originally Posted by LefseBison

My memory is hazy but I seem to recall DB was not a fan of on-line. He was old-school. Too bad he did not listen to staff who were trying to tell him things that were difficult to hear but needed to be said. You need to surround yourself with people who will tell you difficult things and LISTEN to them.

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Online is a no brainer. It keeps your revenue up, is more profitable and has a lower cost to deliver, not needing 50 million dollar buildings.

Also the market shows the biggest growth is going to be older adults who want to get a degree. They dont want to be on campus because they have families, jobs, etc

Lakes kind of ruined the online thing eh.


He probably regrets it now looking back. He could have started on the online baseball team.

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Originally Posted by HerdBot

Online is a no brainer. It keeps your revenue up, is more profitable and has a lower cost to deliver, not needing 50 million dollar buildings.

Also the market shows the biggest growth is going to be older adults who want to get a degree. They dont want to be on campus because they have families, jobs, etc

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That depends on the degree. Something like business can be done online. Engineering really needs hands on labs concurrent with lecture. It's a travesty the accrediting bodies aren't pushing back on this. NDSU has always centered around STEM, decades before that term even existed. Most STEM requires learning to use expensive equipment that individual students can't possibly be expected to have at home.

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Originally Posted by taper

That depends on the degree. Something like business can be done online. Engineering really needs hands on labs concurrent with lecture. It's a travesty the accrediting bodies aren't pushing back on this. NDSU has always centered around STEM, decades before that term even existed. Most STEM requires learning to use expensive equipment that individual students can't possibly be expected to have at home.

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Yep. I got a finance degree. Much of that could have been done online. I found value in presentations and all that but the entire degree boils down to understanding how to do like 3 formulas.

I have a law degree, we did about 40% online (overall year) and bar passage rates...a test if minimum competence to practice...fell pretty hard as a result I think.

Certain degrees need to be in person without question.

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Originally Posted by taper

That depends on the degree. Something like business can be done online. Engineering really needs hands on labs concurrent with lecture. It's a travesty the accrediting bodies aren't pushing back on this. NDSU has always centered around STEM, decades before that term even existed. Most STEM requires learning to use expensive equipment that individual students can't possibly be expected to have at home.

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UND's online engineering degrees do require some summer residency to complete lab courses.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

UND's online engineering degrees do require some summer residency to complete lab courses.

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Too bad that delipidated barn by Buxton, ND is long gone. That was an excellent UND Engineering senior design project and could have held the labs.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

UND's online engineering degrees do require some summer residency to complete lab courses.

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Note where I said "concurrent". They need to be together.

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Originally Posted by taper

Note where I said "concurrent". They need to be together.

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Do employers pay more to students who do them together?

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Originally Posted by Grizzled

Do employers pay more to students who do them together?

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They pay you more if you know what you're doing.

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Originally Posted by taper

They pay you more if you know what you're doing.

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Ok. Than the question is do students who do them together “know what they are doing” more than students who do them at separate times or not in person.

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Originally Posted by Grizzled

Ok. Than the question is do students who do them together “know what they are doing” more than students who do them at separate times or not in person.

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This could apply to numerous activities. :irslow:

Fat fingers eh

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Originally Posted by abc123

Not sure on the accuracy of your numbers, not does it really matter, but those students pay the same amount of tuition.
UND is also bursting at the seams in regards to on campus housing.
Rather deal with those things instead of yelling at clouds, ignoring that excelling in online delivery is going to be vital to be successful in the future.

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UND's housing is 'bursting at the seams' because the school razed half of it. They should raze the other half, and then the rest of the 'school'.

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Originally Posted by Grizzled

Ok. Than the question is do students who do them together “know what they are doing” more than students who do them at separate times or not in person.

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I'm an engineer. I taught several sections of labs. In my experience, ABSOLUTELY. There's no real debate here. Engineering needs to be primarily in person. You realize that poorly trained engineers have killed loads and loads of people, right? It's important to get this right.

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Originally Posted by taper

I'm an engineer. I taught several sections of labs. In my experience, ABSOLUTELY. There's no real debate here. Engineering needs to be primarily in person. You realize that poorly trained engineers have killed loads and loads of people, right? It's important to get this right.

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Definitely agree. There are majors that can be taught online and there are majors that cannot. It’s also easily demonstrable that in person experience is better for academic performance than online only, for many reasons.

Not interested in my doctor, lawyer or engineer getting their degree from U Phoenix. Tax guy, business consultant, librarian - no problem.

The fact of the matter and I believe your original point is that NDSU needs to bump its online offerings, but needs to do it right and thoughtfully. Literally the last thing NDSU needs is people questioning the value of an NDSU engineering degree. Many decades of hard work went into building that brand and honestly is one of the major things carrying the school IMO.

On line education/training is similar to in person in that the quality runs the gamut.

What you can’t do is just slap up the same content from a high quality in person lecture series and expect it to be a high quality on line learning experience. It takes a lot of work to prepare good content for a high quality on line experience. But once it is done right it can scale dramatically.

Perhaps actual teachers can dissuade me of this impression but I also believe that if online content is done well it is easier to engage a range of students with different learning styles at the same time with a mix of text, video, voice, knowledge checks, assignments, etc.

Obviously, as discussed by others above, not suited to all subject areas.

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Originally Posted by taper

I'm an engineer. I taught several sections of labs. In my experience, ABSOLUTELY. There's no real debate here. Engineering needs to be primarily in person. You realize that poorly trained engineers have killed loads and loads of people, right? It's important to get this right.

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I’m sure they have. And engineers that have had all the right training haven’t killed anyone.

My questions are just based a bit on curiosity because I’m not an engineer. I’m sure there are preferred ways but employers should dictate by hiring what the requirements are. This obviously isn’t the case but often times academia gets stuck in a “this is the way it has to be approach” vs flexibility and adjusting to the needs of students and the other schools competing for their dollars.

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Originally Posted by taper

I'm an engineer. I taught several sections of labs. In my experience, ABSOLUTELY. There's no real debate here. Engineering needs to be primarily in person.

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Agree and disagree.

Generals, diff eq, statics, dynamics, pure homework classes don't need face to face.
Alternatively, motors lab for the EEs, yeah, in person, unless you have a 25 HP motor and 480 VAC three-phase in your garage (like scottie).

I'd argue 80% of an eng'g degree can be done online; the rest can be done in summer residencies (2-4 weeks twice). And in summer you might get more direct attention from faculty.

NDSU will be up. I’ll predict it levels off at around 12000. This is significant when you realize that just to get off the long-term downward trend in a declining market, there needed to be a big jump. NDSU did that plus more. The numbers for next year are already looking really good

Cook has said outright that the model in GF (1/3 fully on-line) is not for NDSU. The bigger questions relating to on-line only are:

1. Why should a virtual student count as much as a physical student in the funding model (not talking about tuition)? They don’t require any infrastructure, and they don’t have a commercial footprint on campus, probably not even in the state. I could basically teach them from my basement

2. Do they graduate and find jobs? I have heard rumors about this but will not share them here

3. Do they acquire the extra skills that come with college? e.g. social networking, teamwork, personal responsibility, etc?

I’ve also heard rumors suggesting that the additional housing that the herald bragged about isn't being all used, so 'full to the gills' might be an exaggeration

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Originally Posted by bisonaudit

On line education/training is similar to in person in that the quality runs the gamut.

What you can’t do is just slap up the same content from a high quality in person lecture series and expect it to be a high quality on line learning experience. It takes a lot of work to prepare good content for a high quality on line experience. But once it is done right it can scale dramatically.

Perhaps actual teachers can dissuade me of this impression but I also believe that if online content is done well it is easier to engage a range of students with different learning styles at the same time with a mix of text, video, voice, knowledge checks, assignments, etc.

Obviously, as discussed by others above, not suited to all subject areas.

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I am glad about more on-line at NDSU but all this social media/online/digital stuff is translating to people with less social skills. Many people speak often of my excellent social skills, and that comes from my in-person experience at NDSU, 100% face-to-face as a student and beyond.

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Originally Posted by LefseBison

I am glad about more on-line at NDSU but all this social media/online/digital stuff is translating to people with less social skills. Many people speak often of my excellent social skills, and that comes from my in-person experience at NDSU, 100% face-to-face as a student and beyond.

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Was that after your girlfriends explained the 69?*



*You dirty, dirty little girl**
**I mean, "pearl" clutcher

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Was that after your girlfriends explained the 69?*



*You dirty, dirty little girl**
**I mean, "pearl" clutcher

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Self esteem issues.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Self esteem issues.

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PL...we are here for you...but not right now. I'm closing up the cabin but may have some time for you later.

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Was that after your girlfriends explained the 69?*



*You dirty, dirty little girl**
**I mean, "pearl" clutcher

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How come we "gals" can say we have girlfriends and people know we are referring to friends who are women but if you guys said you have "boyfriends" that would mean you are homosexuals?

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Self esteem issues.

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I am fine. Worry about yourself, sonny. :p

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Originally Posted by LefseBison

How come we "gals" can say we have girlfriends and people know we are referring to friends who are women but if you guys said you have "boyfriends" that would mean you are homosexuals?

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Because saying "my boyfriend" is gay when it come out of a man's mouth. That's just how it is. Don't blame me, I didn't make the rules, but those are the rules.

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Originally Posted by NI4NI

Because saying "my boyfriend" is gay when it come out of a man's mouth. That's just how it is. Don't blame me, I didn't make the rules, but those are the rules.

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Define "it"

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Originally Posted by LefseBison

Define "it"

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I meant the phrase....you're thinking spillage.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Agree and disagree.

Generals, diff eq, statics, dynamics, pure homework classes don't need face to face.
Alternatively, motors lab for the EEs, yeah, in person, unless you have a 25 HP motor and 480 VAC three-phase in your garage (like scottie).

I'd argue 80% of an eng'g degree can be done online; the rest can be done in summer residencies (2-4 weeks twice). And in summer you might get more direct attention from faculty.

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I have to ask, are you an engineer? In my experience, what you're suggesting is effectively impossible. I don't think I ever had a semester without at least 1 lab. With pre-reqs and the curriculum tree, I doubt it's even possible to have a year or even a semester completely online unless you want to spread this out to 7-8 years. And no, summer labs for school year lecture is unacceptable. They MUST be concurrent. I will never change my mind on that based on personal experience as both a student and a TA.
While an oversimplification, in general classes with labs take a lot of time and those without are 'harder'. Even if you could find a way to have a semester all lab and another all lecture, that's pure hell. To quote Dr. Green in regards to something somewhat similar, "my god, you might as well kill yourself."
Engineering shouldn't be online. End of story. The accrediting bodies really need to start pushing back on this.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Agree and disagree.

Generals, diff eq, statics, dynamics, pure homework classes don't need face to face.
Alternatively, motors lab for the EEs, yeah, in person, unless you have a 25 HP motor and 480 VAC three-phase in your garage (like scottie).

I'd argue 80% of an eng'g degree can be done online; the rest can be done in summer residencies (2-4 weeks twice). And in summer you might get more direct attention from faculty.

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I did a mostly online engineering degree at UND and cant recommend against it strongly enough. A person learns as much from their classmates as they do from the professors.

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

I did a mostly online engineering degree at UND and cant recommend against it strongly enough. A person learns as much from their classmates as they do from the professors.

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Why the hell did you go to UND for *checks notes* engineering?

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Originally Posted by ByeSonBusiness

Why the hell did you go to UND for *checks notes* engineering?

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It was 2010 and I had a great college job. I considered Wisconsin, Michigan and Washington. NDSU doesn't have a Chemical Engineering program

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Originally Posted by reformedUNDfan

It was 2010 and I had a great college job. I considered Wisconsin, Michigan and Washington. NDSU doesn't have a Chemical Engineering program

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This is an unfortunate mistake (one of many in ND higher ed). All the relevant research is being done at NDSU and the state would be much better served if the program was there too

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Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker

This is an unfortunate mistake (one of many in ND higher ed). All the relevant research is being done at NDSU and the state would be much better served if the program was there too

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Agreed, most of the programs graduates go on to work in Ag. It is the best individual department at UND though

Did someone ever post the final number?

Disturbing trend we've noticed the last couple months. Our kids are juniors in high school so they are getting information packets from universities. They get stuff from UND at least once a week, sometimes more. They have gotten multiple items from a wide range of of universities from all over...even couple Ivy league schools. They have gotten 1 thing from NDSU. One. Both kids still have NDSU as their #1 pick so far, but that interest is starting to wane for them. Even my wife and I who want nothing to do with UND admit that UND is killing it as far as getting their name out there, and NDSU is doing next to nothing. Really looks like one university knows what they are doing and one can't get out of its own way. Really sad.

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Disturbing trend we've noticed the last couple months. Our kids are juniors in high school so they are getting information packets from universities. They get stuff from UND at least once a week, sometimes more. They have gotten multiple items from a wide range of of universities from all over...even couple Ivy league schools. They have gotten 1 thing from NDSU. One. Both kids still have NDSU as their #1 pick so far, but that interest is starting to wane for them. Even my wife and I who want nothing to do with UND admit that UND is killing it as far as getting their name out there, and NDSU is doing next to nothing. Really looks like one university knows what they are doing and one can't get out of its own way. Really sad.

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Can confirm similar situation in Moorhead.. NDSU spams kids with less junk mail. Not sure if that is a regional thing? In that schools market more aggressively with addresses outside of the home community? Otherwise, yes, NDSU doesn't market as aggressively by mail.

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Disturbing trend we've noticed the last couple months. Our kids are juniors in high school so they are getting information packets from universities. They get stuff from UND at least once a week, sometimes more. They have gotten multiple items from a wide range of of universities from all over...even couple Ivy league schools. They have gotten 1 thing from NDSU. One. Both kids still have NDSU as their #1 pick so far, but that interest is starting to wane for them. Even my wife and I who want nothing to do with UND admit that UND is killing it as far as getting their name out there, and NDSU is doing next to nothing. Really looks like one university knows what they are doing and one can't get out of its own way. Really sad.

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All 3 of my kids were/are being blasted by snail mail and social media stuff from NDSU. NDSU wants my kids to enroll there. NDSU wants your kids to go to UND.

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Originally Posted by TransAmBison

Disturbing trend we've noticed the last couple months. Our kids are juniors in high school so they are getting information packets from universities. They get stuff from UND at least once a week, sometimes more. They have gotten multiple items from a wide range of of universities from all over...even couple Ivy league schools. They have gotten 1 thing from NDSU. One. Both kids still have NDSU as their #1 pick so far, but that interest is starting to wane for them. Even my wife and I who want nothing to do with UND admit that UND is killing it as far as getting their name out there, and NDSU is doing next to nothing. Really looks like one university knows what they are doing and one can't get out of its own way. Really sad.

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I've heard this for a number of years. Apparently, our recruiting folks and ML went to the same trainings....