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und medical & law school are ranked in the 100's, law school students barely pass the bar exam. its not a secret and you don't have to defend below average.Quote:
Originally Posted by kab1one
mix in the pedophile professors (murdering alums-Reinbold) and stuffing old indian bones in closets and a niche sport team that is celebrated at 3-3 why would you send your kids there to lower canada just so your kid can fail the bar exam https://www.grandforksherald.com/new...-pass-bar-exam
If you look at what determines law school ranking (guessing med school is similar), schools in lovely places like North Dakota are destined to be ranked poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
You could give NDSU a blank check to start a law school and U of M Law's budget and end up with the exact same rank as UND.
UND and non-UND grads had the exact same bar passage rate on the ND bar exam this summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
Kinda amusing considering the schools some of us non-UND went to.
Hey Chapo,
What do you call a graduate of the 134th medical school?
Doctor.
And be happy to do it because it's hard to get doctors to move to this region.
PS - Using a near decade old article on law school graduates. See ByeSonBusiness' post for the latest data.
When I see Chapo spew like this I know another UND graduate was promoted past him .... a-a-a-agin.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyBison
Does he realize when he spends his time, in the "State of the (NDS)University" thread no less, railing against anther school it implies he has nothing positive to say about his own?
Chapo: You seem stressed. Maybe a Vegas vacation would help.
Id rather goto Hoople
They really do need to start pushing more online stuff it's not just the future it's the now!Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
You vastly underrate Pisek.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
My question with the budget cuts is will they do the right thing with them? Sadly, in academia, they often behave like everyone "should share the pain." That is terrible business thinking. You need to look at what you are good at, what programs are succeeding and generating graduates/income, and do everything to protect them. Then, find those programs that are not and shut them down. This is terrible for those with job there, but they are going to destroy their great programs if they don't make tough decisions.
Here is a real example. I know of 12 month contract faculty, with signed contracts, forced onto 9 month appointments in a highly successful program area. So in other words, their income was cut by 25% and any students they work with over the summer for on the job training, is eliminated. Is that a good way to attract the beat and brightest faculty? What does this do to the educational experience students are paying for? You just can't go on like this, and this happened with the last budget cut. That program is in serious accreditation risk at this point....
If NDSU is making cuts the rest of ND College's are probably next.
Some people say Fargo-Moorhead is like a little Twin Cities while the Grand Cities are like a big Jamestown. :biggrin:
As for rankings, not everyone can get into a top-ranked medical or law school and just about any university will do an OK job helping someone get an education and financially rewarding career.
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Originally Posted by IndyBison
UND had a president who said (paraphrased), choose a few things, do them exceptionally well, at the highest level possible. But folks here weren't fans of Chuck Kupchella.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
Some people need to get out of the upper Midwest. If your context is other cities in a 300 mile radius then yes you'll notice a difference between the two. Grand Forks MSA is just over 100k and Fargo is about 230k. Omaha is often referred to as a smaller version of the Twin Cities and it's over 800k. That's a significant difference. I've always told people Indy (1.8m) and Minneapolis (3m) are similar but smaller. For additional comparison Madison is 500k, Milwaukee is 1.4m, Peoria is 400k, Des Moines is 700k, and Chicago is 9.5m. Even Appleton (224k), Green Bay (300k), Kalamazoo (260k), South Bend (334k), Fort Wayne (341k), and Lafayette (225k) are Fargo aize or bigger. When you look at it in that context Fargo and GF aren't that different and their environments are very similar (flat, rural cities along the Red River and business hub for many small towns in the area and home of amid sized state university).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
All that said, Fargo is a great city and probably hits above its size compared to other cities their size across the country. But the same can be said for Grand Forks, Bismarckand Minor.
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I have some relatives who could afford to travel and have probably never been more than 100-200 miles from their hometown. One cousin and an uncle make an occasional trip to Montana for hunting which is the only time they leave Minnesota or areas around Fargo.
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Originally Posted by IndyBison
I had a cat that had lived in more states (3) than 90% of my relatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
I get teh funny feeling if I go more then 25 miles from home eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Is that the ankle monitor buzzing?Quote:
Originally Posted by scottietohottie
And there is nothing wrong with that. It definitely skews your perspective on things. When my mom was getting her masters degree at UND a friend from school came to visit. They had never been out of the Red River Valley and were amazed to find out there were "mountains" in Minot! But it's all perspective!Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
And this kind of myopic perspective is not unique to the upper Midwest. In fact I would bet people there probably travel more than many other regions.
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Got to give Kup props. He knew UND was good at D2 football and wanted to stay there. Wish he had succeeded, better.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
Now get back to your budget cuts. Chop-chop.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
I had not seen that story. While I think he was just saying "we are looking at everything," no one would be this dumb. It is literally one of the biggest revenue streams they have and the face of the University. Now, cuts to other sport programs? Sadly, I could see it. Women's sports and non-rev men's sports should be shaking in their boots.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
We already made big cuts to womens sports the last time that privately upset some people. Soccer and T&F saw the biggest cuts. It would make news this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
How about we just develop a funding model that doesn’t reward universities for becoming on-line schools, especially when their athletics programs are already heavily subsidized by the state (relatively speaking)?
You know, a model that places value on actually bringing kids on to campuses ...
Somebody got played here. I’ll let you guys guess who …
He was just preventing Rob Port from ranting about higher education being more focused on athletics than education.
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Originally Posted by THEsocalledfan
The funding model was adjusted in 2013 and all (looking at NDSU) the institutions had input at the time and supported it. I'm sure it is somehow "unfair" again though.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
I'd ask DB (NDSU president from 2010 to 2022) why he chose to cut your online presence in light of him being part of the funding model approval process. Yeah, someone got played, but by whom?
https://www.grandforksherald.com/opi...us-bottom-lineQuote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead
Port hates NDSU. That's his bottom line. Must be something in the water out there ...
You just answered your own questionQuote:
Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka
But then again, nothing screams "pud" like half of a state of 700k rooting for the other school to fail ...
Good on you for wearing it so proudly, I guess
isnt ndsu subsidized by the state like 31% and und 43% ? or was that just athletics.
NDSU and Bresciani supported the State funding model, and then did things, internally, contrary to it. I'd call that a self-inflicted wound.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
And nobody is hoping for NDSU to fail because we'll all share the bill.
The NDSU enrollment trend has been in NDSU's own public data: https://www.ndsu.edu/data/enrollment/annual/
I believe that figure is just for athletics,* but with the new funding model, the overall ratio is probably much worse than that now, thanks to the lack of significant on-line presence at NDSU. I would assume they are currently trying to undo this error in vision as quickly as possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
*cuz you know, suzie has to have everything Thundar does
So is this why we didn’t accept a CUSA invite? Seems like a crazy amount of money we need to cut
I don’t think it’s the money as much as the human value to the state and university. To put it in perspective, the total projected cut is something $10M? NDSU brought in $15M last month in just a single grant (one that benefits your school, btw).Quote:
Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club
People will lose their jobs and the on-campus student experience could potentially suffer, not to mention the ability for NDSU to train the ND workforce, which a land-grant does.
I think they turned down CUSA for other reasons …
Will you be at the Bison game tomorrow Schlossy?
The ability to train the ND workforce is still there. Don’t kid yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
My sources (who would know) tell me:
NDSU Engineering had about $950,000 taken out of their budget this week ... and that's before the coming cuts of this legislative biennium.
NDSU Pharmacy class sizes have shrunk from about 100 (five years ago) to the mid 50s.
Both of those are terrible for the State. I'm not happy about this. It's bad for North Dakota. I'm telling you all so you understand the size of the issue.
Cook has his work cut out.
This really shouldn't be surprising with the continuing drop in enrollment. Why wouldn't fewer students mean less money given and less money needed? Time to see if our new Pres is up to it.
Funny story about engineering funding, I was a student when the state moved to PeopleSoft. It was an unmitigated disaster for the entire university system. PS put all their resources into making the gov't system, so when the schools complained about things being unusable the minions in Bismarck said "it works fine for us" and ignored us. When I say unusable, that's not hyperbole. The first semester you couldn't register for certain required classes unless you knew their registration code, which wasn't published anywhere. Every single Electrical Engineering student was turned into Elementary Education and literally nobody knew how to fix it. Then, since there were no Electrical Eng majors, the system automatically removed all department funding, which again nobody knew how to fix. I was scheduled to graduate that Dec and it was late Oct before I knew for sure if I could.
I’m not sure it’s that simple. You still have to teach the same classes, even if they are half full, and you still need to support the day-to-day infrastructure that makes up the campus environmentQuote:
Originally Posted by taper
My sources tell me that NDSU has essentially the same number of engineering undergrads as UND, but roughly half of UNDs are on-line only and not in-person. A missed opportunity for NDSU, but one that will certainly be addressed quite quickly, I’m sure. Tough situation for GF though
I'm not saying it's linear, but there's definitely an incremental cost up or down for each individual student gained or lost. No doubt lots of things are more efficient with higher enrollment, which I've been advocating for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
I'm 100% against on-line engineering degrees. Having been both a student and TA in person, there's a ton of very expensive lab equipment that's absolutely vital to your education that remote learning simply can't duplicate. Accrediting agencies are failing the entire world if they allow degrees without hands on practical.
I concur completely. One has to wonder who these on-line engineers are, what they are studying, and where they end up. Maybe if you're just writing code, but it's still much easier and more effective to teach that in person, never mind the labs an undergrad ECE always takesQuote:
Originally Posted by taper
That said, the NDUS set the standard by counting on-line students the same as in-person, and NDSU will respond accordingly to maintain its stature as a top-tier research university
This all is just some fishy timing. Waiting for the word to get out after we open the FPC? If 10 million isn’t a big deal why would our president say everything is on the table for cuts mentioning even football. Why say that if these cuts will be easy and painless.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
I was out west this weekend so no football game for me! And no I was not in Vegas with Chapo….
I guess labs were important but a ton of engineers do not use many of the things they learned in their specialized classes. I do agree online would not be a quality education especially when you have to teach calc to yourself…..Quote:
Originally Posted by taper