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No doubt basketball is on a different level with the final four. However, we will never be on that level. We have finished 7th the past 2 years in a crappy conference. I wanna say I'll see the bison in the sweet 16 sometime during my life, but its probably not gonna happen.
Hockey is like what lakes said, Lacrosse for the upper midwest, and out east its for the guys not smart enough to go to a lacrosse school haha.
Don't sell out. Its more fun being the way we are. Making the news for what we do in RELEVANT sports.
You know how fun it is when the basketball team or the football team gets a short 2-3 minute story in espn is. With hockey, MAYBE we could get one of those if we won the national championship.
Stick with what we know, football and basketball. Don't invite hockey and pretend its important to the college athletics world.
I agree. You only need 1 great player in basketball or a core of jr or Srs. If I had to make bets, I think we win a game in the tournament sometime within the next 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by EndZoneQB
But we can do that AND add butt hockey.
St Cloud State Nebraska Omaha make a killing on hockey and lost money on football. Were in a unique position because we make a ton of money in football and when the BSA is done we will gave a money maker in basketball as well. Hockey is a guaranteed money maker if you can fund the athletic department. We have a great facility in the scheels center.Quote:
Originally Posted by ming01
Why can't we do well with all 3 sports without cutting funding? We would have 3 great facilities and 3 great teams. That's a good D1 vision.
Remember how everyone thought we could never fund a D1 budget? I guess they were wrong. Let's at least have discussions. Who knows maybe there are big donors out there.
That's a big ass if. I'm a hockey fan too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
2 words: Northern Iowa. Nobody can convince me that we are that far away. Basketball is changing. Pure teams are winning consistently now. Butler, VCU, George Mason, UNI... its the norm now. A team of 3-4 year starters is the new formula.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgbison
Your right but it was also a big ass IF we could fund a D1 program too. We all know how that worked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by onbison09
Then they said even if we can fund it we wont be competitive. Of course we've easily been the most successful Summit Team and won a conference championship in damn near every sport.
Heck they said we couldn't compete with FBS programs. They said we would never make the playoffs. We would nevver make the NCAA basketball tourney either.
They said we'd never raise money for a new arena. Now were only 2 million away from the shac.
I think we've proven we can do more with less.
Does anyone have paid attendance #'s for the Fargo Force and for Bison basketball. You can question the legitmacy of anyone's paid attendance but at some point it's the best you have to look at the situation reasonably.
These #'s are pertinent to this discussion. The Force is a team I truly have no loyalty to unlike being a graduate of North Dakota State University. However, alot of UND people who live in Fargo may not attend Bison hockey games. Although, I don't believe that would be the norm as the many who have become my friends as adults just enjoy hockey.
Last year was the FIRST year that UNO got into black ink on hockey. They are dropping football and wrestling. I hardly think they are a GOOD example to use if you are trying to suggest we emulate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
I said before but people seem to not understand that DII schools like St. Cloud have an easier time funding hockey and staying Title IX compliant. That's because they have 27 LESS football scholarships. That's enough to make it workable.
http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/...&seasonid=5967Quote:
Originally Posted by skolbrother
I can't find our stats but the season high was 4200. Some games were 2200. Average was probably around 3k. That's with an average to below average team in a crap BSA.
I can tell you I've been to more Force and Redhawks games than Bison Basketball and Baseball. Of course I haven't missed a football game in 10 years. I will go see more basketball games when the new BSA is done.
I had no desire to see the Force but my family wanted to go so I went and I've actually become a fan of the team. I know some friends that skip football games to see the Force. They are also big club hockey fans.
Its crazyhow the force built a tradition in 3 years without a history or fan base. You see NDSU and UND stuff at the games. NDSU has a legit fan base and a little history with club hockey. The arena is a big part of it. Its a very well run organization and we could take some tips from them.
Great post!!!! ++++++ Rational!Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
You basically described my viewing tendency.
The Force, while getting off to a "strange" start have done a ton right.
You just became my bisonville bff.
Forget the budget and Title IX issues and concentrate on just the question of attendance.
If you are a Force fan who says NDSU Hockey could draw, will you now suddenly increase your hockey attendance 100% and go to both?
If not, then either NDSU hockey will fail to gain a following or the Force will suffer.
Or maybe the fan suppport for NDSU hockey will come from the people who are now attending basketball games at the BSA. So basketball attendance will suffer and you're advocating hockey at the expense of basketball. (actually there is an excellent example of that in the region already)
Somebody has to lose in this whole discussion because neither the BSA or Scheels Arena sell out consistently.
BTW, have you seen the initial attendance figures for MLB? Teams are setting records for empty seats. This might be the future for plenty of sporting events.
Ok, how about this. If the bigtime NDSU hockey supporters can provide numbers than indicate that we can be both competitive and be financially well off.
I do not want us sacrificing anything from basketball or especially football. If we can pull out the funding somehow that'd be fantastic. Would we share the forces arena or what?
Where would these NDSU hockey teams (mens and womens) practice?
The Coliseum!Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Since D1 Hockey is a much higher level of play we would hurt the Force. Guarantee it. But basketball is underperforming. There were years we averaged 8k fans as a D2 team so the potential is there. I think hockey is a different market. If it's done right we could sell out the BSA, Scheels Center, and Fargodome. The Force are doing well because they are the only option.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernBison
Were only 2 million away and we would have been there hadn't we put in a new practice field, video boards, and built new Bison offices. The money is there we can start focusing on it once the shac is done.Quote:
Originally Posted by aces1180
The best part is we don't need a hockey facility. Plus the Scheels center is adding practice facilities.
That's not entirely objective...Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
I'll way in on all this later, I'm sure BV can't wait.
like i said, I cant GIVE AWAY 4 force tickets at center ice . ive had them 4 times. no one even wanted them.
last game i was at there, they said 3,400, and I laughed, no way over 2000/game.
ndsu basketball says 3400, i see 3400, thats with a 7th place team in a dump of an arena.
put NDSU basketball in the UPCENTER with a court and watch that fill 5000+, with beer sales, try sold out!
Just a quick comment. No way did we ever average anything close to 8,000 for BB in DII. Must have been the same people counting as those who figured out the Dacotah Field attendance. I think they counted feet and forgot to divide by 2.
How big is lacrosse up in Midwest? I think I heard it is starting to become big in Minnesota, is that correct? I noticed that NDSU has a club team( ranked #18 MCLA division 2) that is doing well so if this sports take off in the next few years up North, could this become a varsity sport in next 10-15 years? One nice thing about lacrosse it is played on football field and the dome could be utilized just like Syracuse uses Carrier dome for lacrosse...
For many years, lacrosse was only big in North Carolina but in just the last couple years it has really taken off in most southern states and is becoming very popular very fast...
Great!!! First soccer and now lacrosse.
Lacrosse is getting big and is going overrtake most sports in popularity except for football and basketball in the next few years.. Our Rec department had about 150 kids last year signed up last year for lacrosse, ages 8-14 this year over 500 signed up. They plan to extend leagues for rec department to 18 year old as over 130 kids went out for the high school team
Just asking to see if it has hit the uppermidwest like the rest of the country and if potentially it could become a varsity sport.
They are adding 3 sheets of ice to the Scheels center.Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Disclaimer: I love hockey and always will... I think it's one of the best sports in the world, and I truly enjoyed playing, coaching, reffing, ect.
The problem with hockey is it's a niche sport, and while it's niche is near ND (and you can very easily argue that ND is not a hockey state despite UND and it's bandwagon following) it doesn't mean hockey is a strategically correct move for NDSU. Arguments can also be made that while hockey is the golden calf at UND, it's also part of the millstone (*nickname*) around the mainstream sports' neck.
The NCAA is high on MBB and NDSU has decided to hitch it's pony to that ride, and rightly so. Title IX, eggs in the mainstream sports basket, and common sense have dictated NDSU move to not add hockey, and those will continue to weigh heavily on that decision in the future. The bottom line is, while any Hockey program in this area could be successful in a short time (location, location, location) what would NDSU really gain from that success? Nobody outside of hockey fans in hockey regions follow hockey, so adding the sport does nothing for NDSU in a long term scheme.
My 2 cents...
We are 2 million away from the Indoor Track, not the SHAC.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
When are those other rinks being added to the Scheels Arena?
The Coliseum ice is smaller than what college teams play on. They wouldn't want to practice there.
Bison basketball is not going to the Scheels Arena ever.
Yes, those 8000 fans back in the 80s for basketball were counted by the same guy that had 19,000 at Dacotah Field.
I thought they were adding four. They indicated construction would begin when they raised $6 million in private donations. Has that been accomplished yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
If they aren't there yet, you can mark me down as a "I'll believe it when I see it person." The initial "cluster" this whole thing was leaves me with zero confidence.
The driving force for the extra sheets of ice was a tremendous shortage faced by existing programs. I'm not sure there is necessarily prime ice time available even if this extra ice is built.
How much left until we get the shac?Quote:
Originally Posted by roadwarrior
Good question. But it is more than the "less than $2 million" that Erv said was needed to start the indoor track facility.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
LOL (ten char)Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernBison
That would be a resounding no! I dont think there is even a HS club team for boys or girls in ND. I know there is a small amount of youth players in town but it is VERY small. Minnesota has slightly more interest but it would be a horrible idea to add lacrosse.Quote:
Originally Posted by scbison91
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! They are no where close to ever doing that. Pipe dream right now. They dont even have enough money to finish their parking lot. They got under $1 Mil from Scheels to name the arena. NDSU got $5 Mil from Scheels. They got under $1 Mil cuz they were desperate for money and took what they would give them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Great post! Agree completely including the part about myself enjoying hockey. However all it will do is be a major drag on the other sports right now. The requirement of adding womens hockey is the deal breaker period! Those small Minnesota schools make it work because hockey IS THE ONLY BIG SHOW in town. Its the only sport they get to compete against the Gophers on a regular basis if at all so it becomes a big deal. For us it is not as big a deal anymore after beating them in I think every sport but mens basketball and volleyball. They dont get that opportunity so they throw all their chips in the emotional basket when it comes to hockey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Facts
Will one of them write the check for Dean Blais's $250,000 contract because that is what it will take to become even close to a competitive team. As soon as Dean Blais leaves UNO their program will go in the crapper. Thats only $50,000 more then Bohl. Everyone needs to keep in mind it is not a $3 million addition. Its $6 Million YEARLY because women's hockey will require the same amount like it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
College hockey isnt even relevant to the rest of the country outside of Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts and a couple other isolated areas like Denver.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgbison
We could be relevant with basketball in a new arena in actually a relevant sport to the rest of the country.
I enjoy hockey a lot and would love to shove a hockey victory down the UND fans throat but it would kill everything else we have going for us now on a gamble in a money draining regional sport.
Why has softball done so well despite our climate? Because they have put the money into the program to allow Mueller to get the players he needs to win (ie. California).
Baseball is not allowed the same opportunity. If baseball was funded for recruiting like softball they would be able to get some difference maker players from Cali and Texas and would be challenging ORU for a conference title. They have a good core but are killed by arm injuries right now and when you are not fully funded and have your #1 starting pitcher out you have a good chunk of your scholarship money sitting on the bench. When they get funded at the top of the league then their can be some complaints but they didn't even have a full time HEAD COACH until coach Brown because they wouldn't fund the position. Its only the 4th year of a full time assistant coach I believe and the 1st year of a 2nd full time assistant coach. We are just finally funding one of our programs to at least a low respectable conference level and now want to add 6 million to our budget. If we were actually funding all of our programs fully right now I would say bring it on but we are severely lacking in several areas.
While not all the school's that play hockey are D-1 in more than just hockey, its somewhere around 37, just a few more than a dozen. It is a weak enough number without having to make something up.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernBison
And while it is women's basketball and that attendance is impressive, I don't think that 11,500 sells out the American Airline Center where the game was played (home of the Dallas Mavericks, it seats 21,000+). You also fail to mention that Baylor's campus is under 100 miles away and Texas A&M's campus is 200 miles away. A little closer than the 600 and 1100 miles away that UND and Denver were from Green Bay.
abc that makes zero sense, you got hit by a 24 year old canadian too many times.
If baseball was funded for recruiting like softball they would be able to get some difference maker players from Cali and Texas and would be challenging ORU for a conference title
^^^^^ because of LYNN DORN>?????????????????
there's about 10,000 hockey fans in minneapolis, 10,000 in ann arbor, 10,000 in madison. 7500 in stink forks. they are the same fans that goto every single game every week. anyone outside of these people dont give a fart crap about hockey and the rest of USA certainly doesnt care.
NDSU has a club lacrosse team. Im not advocating a "varsity" team or whatever the correct term is.Quote:
Originally Posted by bisonpride