Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
missingnumber7
It clearly states at the top of the website that the times must come during the school season and not summer meets, thus any times achieved after the ND State Meet would not count. I think the bigger feat is that Roesler is in the top 10 for the 100, 200, 400, 800, and 1600.
I understand that the website says only during the school season, but nearly everyone across the United States views the school season as extending into the summer months, with the cutoff generally being the US Championships (around Aug 1). Colleges use this convention too, including NDSU. Counting june and july times of high school students is especially common if a high school student is so good that he or she gets invited to a meet that occurs after the state meet. Laura Roesler was invited to the Jim Bush Invitational on the merits of what she did earlier in the season. Should she be penalized for being so darn good that she was the only ND high school athlete invited? If it had been a Bismarck athlete, (as someone else asked above) would Zittleman still punish the athlete by refusing to recognize their performance? I don't think so. Roesler's time at Jim Bush should be acknowledged by Zit as the ND all-time best ... every other state in the union would b/c the convention is to count high school times into the summer so there is no rational excuse for snubbing Laura in Zit's all-time list.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Buffalo.Rider
I understand that the website says only during the school season, but nearly everyone across the United States views the school season as extending into the summer months, with the cutoff generally being the US Championships (around Aug 1). Colleges use this convention too, including NDSU. Counting june and july times of high school students is especially common if a high school student is so good that he or she gets invited to a meet that occurs after the state meet. Laura Roesler was invited to the Jim Bush Invitational on the merits of what she did earlier in the season. Should she be penalized for being so darn good that she was the only ND high school athlete invited? If it had been a Bismarck athlete, (as someone else asked above) would Zittleman still punish the athlete by refusing to recognize their performance? I don't think so. Roesler's time at Jim Bush should be acknowledged by Zit as the ND all-time best ... every other state in the union would b/c the convention is to count high school times into the summer so there is no rational excuse for snubbing Laura in Zit's all-time list.
No different than people who think that the NFL Preseason football games are real NFL games. You have an opinion and he does, the fact that there are no summer meets held in ND, probably has something to do with his view of the list.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
missingnumber7
No different than people who think that the NFL Preseason football games are real NFL games.
I don't see the parallel logic. This is completely different. Laura got into the U.S. Olympic Trials based on her performance at the Jim Bush Invitational, if that does not validate the JBI as being real (beyond the other normal validating requirements), I do not know what would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
missingnumber7
You have an opinion and he does ...
You are partially right here, I will grant you that. For example, it is my opinion that her 2:03.08 should count as the ND All-time best, and I think Dave Z is wrong for not including it. However, it is not my opinion that the main governing track bodies in the US and virtually all the other states count performances of high school athletes after their state track meets (generally up until about the end of the U.S. Championships) - this is a fact. (See my earlier post on Jim Ryun ... that convention has been in place since the 1960s).
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Buffalo.Rider
I don't see the parallel logic. This is completely different. Laura got into the U.S. Olympic Trials based on her performance at the Jim Bush Invitational, if that does not validate the JBI as being real (beyond the other normal validating requirements), I do not know what would.
You are partially right here, I will grant you that. For example, it is my opinion that her 2:03.08 should count as the ND All-time best, and I think Dave Z is wrong for not including it. However, it is not my opinion that the main governing track bodies in the US and virtually all the other states count performances of high school athletes after their state track meets (generally up until about the end of the U.S. Championships) - this is a fact. (See my earlier post on Jim Ryun ... that convention has been in place since the 1960s).
Zittelmans list is not in any way an official list of any kind. I know there are errors and older performances that are not included. Not bashing Zit by any means but his list is the only attempt out there as far as ND all time best performances.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
semobison
Zittelmans list is not in any way an official list of any kind. I know there are errors and older performances that are not included. Not bashing Zit by any means but his list is the only attempt out there as far as ND all time best performances.
Zittelman's list on the Bismarck High School website is a TERRIFIC contribution to ND high school track and field. The people who compiled the data (whoever they are) and have maintained it, have done a great service to the people who follow ND track and field.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Well written and complementary article in the Fargo Forum today on Laura Roesler and her (probable) participation in the Olympic Trials. And the writer got his facts right this time :-)
Most of you have probably seen it, but in case not, here is a link to the article.
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/364487/
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
semobison
Zittelmans list is not in any way an official list of any kind. I know there are errors and older performances that are not included. Not bashing Zit by any means but his list is the only attempt out there as far as ND all time best performances.
If you believe there are so many errors than you should send them to me! This is Dave Zittleman. I keep the all-time list for ND track and field. I am not sure even where to start with the negativity on this board, but I will reply with positives.
This list was started back in the 90's by New Rockford high school. It was up for a few years and then was taken down. I decided to get it going and make all the corrections. Times in ND were HAND TIMED and not converted to FAT until i got this changed 5 or 6 years ago while sitting on the sports advisory board. Times in ND used to have .24 subtracted from the time to make it a hand time... yes subtracted. I have spent thousands of hours at the state library lookng at micro film to put this list together. I have had to adjust times and make them FAT. There might be a time or distance that is missed, but they are few and i am not sure who what or when. Brad leingang is one of my assistant coaches and has researched every state meet and i will soon be posting all results back to 1908.
I also maintain the ND cross country site and the ND track & field site. Again if you think there are errors then why in the world wouldnt you email them to me? I have had a few poeple email me and 9 times out of 10 they were wrong and did not understand the whole hand timing thing.
As for snubbing Laura Roesler, you are wrong. I have great respect for laura and what she has done for ND track and what she is doing at Oregon. I had a nice visit with her and her family at Eugene during the Olympic Trials. She has a great opportunity to be an Olympian someday.
I dont include out of season performances for one reason. WHEN WE GO TO NATIONAL MEETS WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WEAR OUR TEAM UNIFORMS OR TO RUN FOR OUR HIGH SCHOOL. NDHSAA DOES NOT ALLOW US AND THE MEET MANAGEMENT DOES NOT ALLOW US.
The athletes that I have had at National meets would clutter the list if we used these times!!!!!!!!!
I am all about ND track and cross country and not just about Bismarck High School. I get paid ZERO. The websites and list will come to an end very shortly however. If somebody would like to take them over please contact me.
Good luck to all athletes in the upcoming xc season.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
Coach as a fan and a parent of a former state track meet participant. I just want to say THANKS FOR ALL YOU DO. Just love your site and hats off to you and Darrell.
Re: Laura Roesler and the ND All-Time List in the 800 meters.
I dont include out of season performances for one reason. WHEN WE GO TO NATIONAL MEETS WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WEAR OUR TEAM UNIFORMS OR TO RUN FOR OUR HIGH SCHOOL. NDHSAA DOES NOT ALLOW US AND THE MEET MANAGEMENT DOES NOT ALLOW US.
But are the still in high school and do they live in North Dakota?
