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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TAILG8R
Same as it's not logical to say Brookings is an FBS town. I just don't get why people think SDSU can move up. What support do they have in place for that kind of move? I don't see it.
It will only ever happen in a scenario where everything goes to hell and there is a major divide among NCAA football where the GBS isn't the GBS as we know it now.
So in closing waiting for SDSU to be a partner is a dead ends. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
This! The only viable partners we have are Montana if we go West or ISUr and Mo State if we go east. SDSU and MSU AD's and alumni are perfectly content in FCS.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AKBison
This! The only viable partners we have are Montana if we go West or ISUr and Mo State if we go east. SDSU and MSU AD's and alumni are perfectly content in FCS.
That's funny because both Montanas are on record turning down an FBS invite, MOST is rumored to turn down CUSA, and ISUr does not even remotely have the money to jump.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
So you're saying no one will come just because of the conference? BS. Everyone of the CUSA teams has far more to offer than WIU, Indiana State, and Murray State. Probably better than YSU, Illinois State, and until very recently, Missery State.
quite the conundrum isn't it
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
So you're saying no one will come just because of the conference? BS. Everyone of the CUSA teams has far more to offer than WIU, Indiana State, and Murray State. Probably better than YSU, Illinois State, and until very recently, Missery State.
Have you taken a serious look at those schools? You do realize 6 of them are leaving after this year? On top of the 3 that left this year.
NMSU, SHSU, JSU, FIU - are "better" than SDSU, UNI, SIU ? GTFO.
SHSU is going to crash and burn in that league ... even their own fans think so.
They've got a SOS website: http://www.shsuoperationzulu.com/blo...bowers-stadium
Quote:
In a time like now, where fans aren't even sure how they will be able to watch BearKat sports starting in 2023,it's very transparent why the fans of CUSA teams today were upset with the conference. We need a culture change in the operations of running the SHSU Athletics, otherwise, we would become the next dead FBS school.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Oregon to the B1G next? Another slot in the PAC to backfill ...
https://www.si.com/college/michigan/...n-oregon-ducks
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Have you taken a serious look at those schools? You do realize 6 of them are leaving after this year? On top of the 3 that left this year.
NMSU, SHSU, JSU, FIU - are "better" than SDSU, UNI, SIU ? GTFO.
SHSU is going to crash and burn in that league ... even their own fans think so.
They've got a SOS website:
http://www.shsuoperationzulu.com/blo...bowers-stadium
Yep. They're in a pickle I want zero part of. McFeely was talking about the lack of "buzz" surrounding their move too.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Have you taken a serious look at those schools? You do realize 6 of them are leaving after this year?
NMSU, SHSU, JSU, FIU - are "better" than SDSU, UNI, SIU ? GTFO.
SHSU is going to crash and burn in that league ... even their own fans think so.
They've got a SOS website:
http://www.shsuoperationzulu.com/blo...bowers-stadium
Yes, I know that a bunch of teams are leaving. But some good ones remain, and a couple good ones have joined. Might some of those teams leave in the future? Sure, but how long have we heard that so-and-so is going to leave the MWC? Or even that WKU and MTSU are going to leave CUSA? But they didn't. Maybe they're stuck. Just like we're apparently stuck in FCS waiting for an invite that's never going to come.
Also, why is SHSU going to crash and burn? They're a decent FCS team. Are you saying that the top half of the CUSA is far better than them? If so, I would agree. Which is why I want to play those CUSA top teams. Actually though, I think SHSU has a good recruiting class this year.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
Yes, I know that a bunch of teams are leaving. But some good ones remain, and a couple good ones have joined. Might some of those teams leave in the future? Sure, but how long have we heard that so-and-so is going to leave the MWC? Or even that WKU and MTSU are going to leave CUSA? But they didn't. Maybe they're stuck. Just like we're apparently stuck in FCS waiting for an invite that's never going to come.
Also, why is SHSU going to crash and burn? They're a decent FCS team. Are you saying that the top half of the CUSA is far better than them? If so, I would agree. Which is why I want to play those CUSA top teams. Actually though, I think SHSU has a good recruiting class this year.
SHSU is going to crash financially. No fan support. No money to expand their stadium.
No money from a media deal. They will be a dumpster fire.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
MAC has a partnership with SBC and is airing games on NFL Network in addition to ESPN.
Doesn't hosting Marshall or Louisiana on NFL Network saturday night sound a hell of a lot better than hosting FIU on Facebook?
https://fbschedules.com/two-mac-sun-...twork-in-2022/
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Have you taken a serious look at those schools? You do realize 6 of them are leaving after this year? On top of the 3 that left this year.
NMSU, SHSU, JSU, FIU - are "better" than SDSU, UNI, SIU ? GTFO.
SHSU is going to crash and burn in that league ... even their own fans think so.
They've got a SOS website:
http://www.shsuoperationzulu.com/blo...bowers-stadium
Have you taken a serious look at the bottom tier of the MVFC? Murray State, and Western Illinois don't exactly piss excellence.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AKBison
Your missing one small detail...each one of those schools was fully transitioned and proved they could be successful at 1A football before getting a MWC invite.
There are only 3 realistic paths forward for NDSU to move to FBS. Each has it's merits and draw backs. Any other scenario, especially the one where we keep doing business "as is" and patiently wait by the phone is a pipe dream.
1. Join a fledgling CUSA, complete the transition and gradually fund the AD so our budget is up to the MWC/AAC mean and pray for a MWC/AAC invite.
2. Pray that we could get an exemption like Liberty and move Football to FBS as an Independent. Win some bowl games and prove we belong and then hope for a MWC/AAC invite.
3. Remain in FCS and fundraise so that our athletic department is transition ready with a mid tier MWC/AAC budget baked in. Bring all athletic facilities up to a top level G5 standard. Build a new basketball arena where Dacotah field is and hire a coach that elevates the program to a solid mid major. Once achieved we pray that the Valley decides to move up to FBS and invites us as a full member or hope the PAC/Big XII expand and blow up the MWC/AAC forcing them into panic mode.
If it is in fact true what some here seem to be intent on perpetuating, that our path to FBS is very narrow and only through a MWC or MAC invite with a regional partner, than I can get behind us staying FCS and changing our philosophy to build the entire AD at much greater speed. The problem is that we have a lot of big donors who would lose their shit if one dollar of football money goes toward building up mens and womens bb. Those same donors are often the same ones shitting all over any short term attainable path to FBS. It’s putting the leadership in a really tough position. They see the fans leaving and know it needs to be addressed but they risk losing donor money if they actually try to address it it a realistic and effective way.
It’s very common for many here to make fun of UND for putting all their eggs in the hockey basket at the expense of all other sports. Yet NDSU is somewhat guilty of the same thing with our football program.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
MAC has a partnership with SBC and is airing games on NFL Network in addition to ESPN.
Doesn't hosting Marshall or Louisiana on NFL Network saturday night sound a hell of a lot better than hosting FIU on Facebook?
https://fbschedules.com/two-mac-sun-...twork-in-2022/
For sure. I'd jump at a MAC invite. If I were in charge, I would have already made it known that we would accept such an invite were one to come. Unfortunately, we don't roll that way I guess.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
Have you taken a serious look at the bottom tier of the MVFC? Murray State, and Western Illinois don't exactly piss excellence.
Know a lot of conferences with excellent teams at the bottom?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bisonaudit
Know a lot of conferences with excellent teams at the bottom?
Problem is, CUSA won't have any good ones at the top either next year.
Here is the predicted order of finish:
1 UTSA
2 UAB
3 WKU
4 Florida Atlantic
5 North Texas
6 UTEP
7 Charlotte
8 Middle Tennessee
9 Louisiana Tech
10 Rice
11 FIU
#3, #6, #8, #9, #11 are the schools staying in addition to the call ups.
All the rest are leaving.
#3 WKU is ranked 101 by Sagarin.
SDSU is currently ranked #74 in Sagarin.
#11 FIU is ranked 161 by Sagarin, lower than almost all of FCS.
Their ONLY win was over Long Island from the NEC. They had 0 FBS wins.
YSU is #146 in Sagarin. Still better than what we would see in CUSA.
So our level of competition would actually decrease significantly top to bottom.
Put that together with no media presence or money, and teams people don't care about it.
It's a recipe for disaster.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
UTSA has been a nice success story. Along with Texas State they jumped to FBS for a year in the dying WAC. They then spent 10 years in CUSA when it was pretty good and now are headed to the AAC..
To me, upward mobility is far more about the individual schools than what conference they play in.
I think Texas State will be near the top of the list for MW expansion should such expansion occur..
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MWC
UTSA has been a nice success story. Along with Texas State they jumped to FBS for a year in the dying WAC. They then spent 10 years in CUSA when it was pretty good and now are headed to the AAC..
To me, upward mobility is far more about the individual schools than what conference they play in.
I think Texas State will be near the top of the list for MW expansionshould such expansion occur..
MWC would be insane to take Texas St over NDSU for backfill or expansion.
They went 4-8 last year, and NDSU has a bigger fanbase. They aren't a very big success story.
Now I think you're just trolling us.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Why not CUSA raid MVFC and BSC and takes NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, UNI, ISU Red, ISU Blue, and Missouri State. Re-negotiate media deal and it's a stable, decent FBS conference.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
If it is in fact true what some here seem to be intent on perpetuating, that our path to FBS is very narrow and only through a MWC or MAC invite with a regional partner, than I can get behind us staying FCS and changing our philosophy to build the entire AD at much greater speed. The problem is that we have a lot of big donors who would lose their shit if one dollar of football money goes toward building up mens and womens bb. Those same donors are often the same ones shitting all over any short term attainable path to FBS. It’s putting the leadership in a really tough position. They see the fans leaving and know it needs to be addressed but they risk losing donor money if they actually try to address it it a realistic and effective way.
It’s very common for many here to make fun of UND for putting all their eggs in the hockey basket at the expense of all other sports. Yet NDSU is somewhat guilty of the same thing with our football program.
The hockey thing is dumb because no one outside of a 300 mile radius of Grand Forks gives two shits about college hockey. Id argue that our non-football sports are the most successful out of any summit or big sky school, so it’s not exactly like football is king here and everything else suffers.
But yes, I agree and I think that rounding out the AD is the best move forward. For many reasons.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DePereBisonFan
Why not CUSA raid MVFC and BSC and takes NDSU, SDSU, Montana, Montana State, UNI, ISU Red, ISU Blue, and Missouri State. Re-negotiate media deal and it's a stable, decent FBS conference.
Why are we taking ISU blue and Missouri state? Those are the football programs we’re trying to get away from? Otherwise yeah, I’ll take any feasible ticket to FBS.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hammerhead
I don't see many kids in SoCal choosing a college in the Midwest just because they see sporting events on TV.
Surprisingly there are a lot of kids from California who leave the state for college. Partially due to the fact the UC schools are so very competitive. Students Werth 4.0 or greater don't get accepted. Many do look to go to the Midwest. I'm on a parent Facebook group those with kids in high school and college. Many California moms ask for suggestions of Midwest schools for their kids to consider.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Problem is, CUSA won't have any good ones at the top either next year.
Here is the predicted order of finish:
1 UTSA
2 UAB
3 WKU
4 Florida Atlantic
5 North Texas
6 UTEP
7 Charlotte
8 Middle Tennessee
9 Louisiana Tech
10 Rice
11 FIU
#3, #6, #8, #9, #11 are the schools staying in addition to the call ups.
All the rest are leaving.
#3 WKU is ranked 101 by Sagarin.
SDSU is currently ranked #74 in Sagarin.
#11 FIU is ranked 161 by Sagarin, lower than almost all of FCS.
Their ONLY win was over Long Island from the NEC. They had 0 FBS wins.
YSU is #146 in Sagarin. Still better than what we would see in CUSA.
So our level of competition would actually decrease significantly top to bottom.
Put that together with no media presence or money, and teams people don't care about it.
It's a recipe for disaster.
I'm sorry but being ranked 161 doesn't put you toward the bottom of FCS.
Did you mean MVFC?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
The hockey thing is dumb because no one outside of a 300 mile radius of Grand Forks gives two shits about college hockey. Id argue that our non-football sports are the most successful out of any summit or big sky school, so it’s not exactly like football is king here and everything else suffers.
But yes, I agree and I think that rounding out the AD is the best move forward. For many reasons.
You may think that hockey at UND is dumb but it’s history is long and it makes sense for them. They just aren’t going to be able to compete with NDSU in football consistently because of it. Also, college hockey has as much national appeal as FCS football.
Our non-football sports are “successful” relative to two of the lowest ranked conferences in the nation? I guess I don’t think we should be hanging our hat on that. My point still remains, football is far more succesful than our other sports and until we balance that out we aren’t going to find an attractive conference and without a conference move in football we are going to continue to stagnate as a program.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
You may think that hockey at UND is dumb but it’s history is long and it makes sense for them. They just aren’t going to be able to compete with NDSU in football consistently because of it. Also, college hockey has as much national appeal as FCS football.
Our non-football sports are “successful” relative to two of the lowest ranked conferences in the nation? I guess I don’t think we should be hanging our hat on that. My point still remains, football is far more succesful than our other sports and until we balance that out we aren’t going to find an attractive conference and without a conference move in football we are going to continue to stagnate as a program.
Mens basketball
Softball
Track and field
Baseball
All are the most competitive nationally that they’ve ever been during the past 10 years. Arguably all because they’ve seen huge influx of money from donors, in no small part due to the success of the football team. Yes, we’re not done growing them and ideally they’d all be top 100 programs year in/out. But I hardly think this is a UND situation where all the resources go to one sport and then the rest of the athletic department is literally in the bottom quarter in almost every sport nationally.
We’ve pretty much upgraded all facilities to be near state of the art. It’s on them to continue to grow and have success. The stage is set for all non-football sports. We can’t just buy a top 50 basketball program.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
The hockey thing is dumb because no one outside of a 300 mile radius of Grand Forks gives two shits about college hockey.
Point of Order:
GFK to MSP: 320 miles.
Midco (49% owned by Comcast) just put Midco Sports Net onto MSP cable to expose their top property, UND Hockey, in that market ... surely for no reason at all because no one in the land of the Gophers cares about college hockey.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
Point of Order:
GFK to MSP: 320 miles.
Midco (49% owned by Comcast) just put Midco Sports Net onto MSP cable to expose their top property, UND Hockey, in that market ... surely for no reason at all because no one in the land of the Gophers cares about college hockey.
Dumb fhawker should have used kilometers so we could understand what the heck he was even saying eh.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
You may think that hockey at UND is dumb but it’s history is long and it makes sense, and money, for them.
Fixed that for you.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottietohottie
Dumb fhawker should have used kilometers so we could understand what the heck he was even saying eh.
Translator.
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A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AKBison
Your missing one small detail...each one of those schools was fully transitioned and proved they could be successful at 1A football before getting a MWC invite.
There are only 3 realistic paths forward for NDSU to move to FBS. Each has it's merits and draw backs. Any other scenario, especially the one where we keep doing business "as is" and patiently wait by the phone is a pipe dream.
1. Join a fledgling CUSA, complete the transition and gradually fund the AD so our budget is up to the MWC/AAC mean and pray for a MWC/AAC invite.
2. Pray that we could get an exemption like Liberty and move Football to FBS as an Independent. Win some bowl games and prove we belong and then hope for a MWC/AAC invite.
3. Remain in FCS and fundraise so that our athletic department is transition ready with a mid tier MWC/AAC budget baked in. Bring all athletic facilities up to a top level G5 standard. Build a new basketball arena where Dacotah field is and hire a coach that elevates the program to a solid mid major. Once achieved we pray that the Valley decides to move up to FBS and invites us as a full member or hope the PAC/Big XII expand and blow up the MWC/AAC forcing them into panic mode.
I get it Scottie. All these boring posts. And not from your favorite bot.
Well Prayer Bot says let’s go with #2 then. Kinda like liberty. But more like…
NOTRE FUCKING DAME.
There is no other way. NDSU AND THE BISON have NO natural RIVALS.
Except for them.
If we all pray for this. That would be enough to get it done. Enough faith to move this little molehill.
INDEPENDANCE OR BUST. TM
UND is our ONLY RIVAL. TM
F-UND. BISON TO FBS. TM
Amen
Blip bloop. (That’s like a malfunction noise.)
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Hail. The Bison.
Thunder just Struck.
Here comes the ducking LIGHTNING.
Let’s reschedule Oregon.
TM
HERE COME THE DUCKING INDEPENDANT FBS BISON
They can’t duck us no more.
TM
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
“Stony” Matt Larson was right all along. Pretty decent AD.
BISON INDEPENDANCE FOREVER!
TM
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
CONFERENCE? WE DONT NEED NO STINKING CONFERENCE. (Picture of bison smoking)
WE AREN’T DEPENDENT ON THEM.
they were ALWAYS depending on us.
INDEPENDENT BISON. ROBOTIC DOMINANCE.
TM
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Y'all sure you want in a conference with this much FG talent? :judges:
https://twitter.com/TroyTrojansFB/st...83870228971521
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Mens basketball
Softball
Track and field
Baseball
All are the most competitive nationally that they’ve ever been during the past 10 years. Arguably all because they’ve seen huge influx of money from donors, in no small part due to the success of the football team. Yes, we’re not done growing them and ideally they’d all be top 100 programs year in/out. But I hardly think this is a UND situation where all the resources go to one sport and then the rest of the athletic department is literally in the bottom quarter in almost every sport nationally.
We’ve pretty much upgraded all facilities to be near state of the art. It’s on them to continue to grow and have success. The stage is set for all non-football sports. We can’t just buy a top 50 basketball program.
How do all of those programs compare in terms of funding and success relative to the conferences we are hoping to get an invite from? The reality is that our non-football sports aren't going to appeal to the conferences that we want our football in. It's reality. Until that changes, I believe the football program is stuck. That's where I feel the biggest issue lies. We don't want to take funding from football to improve the other sports and risk our football program slipping. And the donor base is much more passionate about football (both because of success and also because the Ath. Dept. has focused so heavily on promoting it) and desires to see its funding be spent on football more than other areas. If we stay the status quo, it is going to be a very long road to get to a better conference. That doesn't mean that we have to go backwards. Just means that it is going to be a continued path of uneven results and slow growth for our non-football sports coupled with dominance from our football program. Both of those seem to be creating apathy within the fanbase. No easy solution, I'm just having a difficult time getting excited by the status quo and I think many others are as well.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
How do all of those programs compare in terms of funding and success relative to the conferences we are hoping to get an invite from? The reality is that our non-football sports aren't going to appeal to the conferences that we want our football in. It's reality. Until that changes, I believe the football program is stuck. That's where I feel the biggest issue lies. We don't want to take funding from football to improve the other sports and risk our football program slipping. And the donor base is much more passionate about football (both because of success and also because the Ath. Dept. has focused so heavily on promoting it) and desires to see its funding be spent on football more than other areas. If we stay the status quo, it is going to be a very long road to get to a better conference. That doesn't mean that we have to go backwards. Just means that it is going to be a continued path of uneven results and slow growth for our non-football sports coupled with dominance from our football program. Both of those seem to be creating apathy within the fanbase. No easy solution, I'm just having a difficult time getting excited by the status quo and I think many others are as well.
I agree with the following: We need to improve our non-football sports. You're arguing with me on the thing that we agree on...
The point you were making that I disagree with is that football is causing the other sports to suffer like what happens at UND with their hockey team. Again, I'd argue that the football program is currently funding and subsidizing the other programs, so to say that the football program's success is at the detriment of the other programs is incorrect. On top of that, we're not even sniffing the MW without the football program that we have. The In Our Hands campaign doesn't go nearly as well as it did without the amazing NDSU Bison brand that our football program has built for the University.
Yes, ideally we'd have a MW-funded basketball program. But we're not in the Mountain West are we? It'd sure help to have the extra millions of dollars per year that the Mountain West teams get. That's not the fault of football program. To the contrary, the football program is the reason we're even having this conversation.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU1980
I've never heard that from anyone reliable that MW only wants FCS teams. The other thing is, the more good teams that go to CUSA the more stable they will become. I really think a sold football team like NDSU would turn them around. Look at the Sun Belt. A few years ago everyone was going to right them off.
NDSU is a FCS school by name only, nothing else about NDSU isn’t at the FBS level. MWC will take NDSU if they can work out a travel agreement like Hawaii.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
This compares median of the bottom 25% of FBS* to UND and NDSU: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/1c43c126
This compares median MAC and median MWC to UND and NDSU: https://knightnewhousedata.org/reports/ee825a60
*If the worst FBS is "1" and the best FBS is "100", the median of the bottom 25% is nominally "12".
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
MWC would be insane to take Texas St over NDSU for backfill or expansion.
They went 4-8 last year, and NDSU has a bigger fanbase. They aren't a very big success story.
Now I think you're just trolling us.
No trolling. I don't think it is an either or thing. If the MW loses 4 schools they would add multiple schools..Texas State would be NEAR the top of the list of candidates..
I don't think the conference will lose that many but 1 or 2 is possible..
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigLakeBison
How do all of those programs compare in terms of funding and success relative to the conferences we are hoping to get an invite from? The reality is that our non-football sports aren't going to appeal to the conferences that we want our football in. It's reality. Until that changes, I believe the football program is stuck. That's where I feel the biggest issue lies. We don't want to take funding from football to improve the other sports and risk our football program slipping. And the donor base is much more passionate about football (both because of success and also because the Ath. Dept. has focused so heavily on promoting it) and desires to see its funding be spent on football more than other areas. If we stay the status quo, it is going to be a very long road to get to a better conference. That doesn't mean that we have to go backwards. Just means that it is going to be a continued path of uneven results and slow growth for our non-football sports coupled with dominance from our football program. Both of those seem to be creating apathy within the fanbase. No easy solution, I'm just having a difficult time getting excited by the status quo and I think many others are as well.
Most G5 schools would not even rise to the level of what NDSU has for non football facilities. People need to remember the bottom half of the G5 is nothing more than glorified FCS schools. The only thing they have above NDSU is GEOGRAPHY!!!!!!
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
People talking about MWC and "travel" when Hawaii is in the conference pisses me off bro.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
I like where NDSU is at. Add in the millions of dollars from the conference and we're approaching median. And we're not even in the conference yet.
Are you able to take UND's athletics budget into account without hockey spend? There's a reason UND spends as much on athletics as NDSU and has consistently underperformed in all comparable sports. I'll let you pick your excuse :)
