-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
I see. Politics indeed, although it's unclear what motivated "Wild Bill" Langer to take a sword to NDSU. That part seems forever buried in history ...
So in a nutshell, the constitution was amended to protect NDSU from Bismarck. Seem accurate?
Thanks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Langer
VERY INTERESTING CHARACTER
Lies in state- I think buried in the US Senate building?
His Wikipedia has a bunch of wild stuff, and doesn’t even touch the ndsu/ndac thing
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
They need a media contract. They need to show a plan that shows viability beyond 2 years. They need a vision. We'd have 44 more scholarships to fund, 44 more FCOA we'd need to fund, and we'd likely end up losing TV revenue by moving to CUSA. Every school is looking to jump outta that conference the first chance they get. I honestly think it would look better to an FBS conference as a MVFC that has rejected CUSA.
We jump to CUSA:
Best case, we jump to a good G5 conference (no different than now). Worst case, CUSA folds and we come limping back to FCS with a ruined brand and hope MVFC takes us back.
We have a lot to lose and not a lot to gain from jumping...
The MWC has already intimated that they will not take FCS teams. They only want FBS teams. That actually makes sense. FBS teams, even in the CUSA, are already acclamated to playing a higher level of teams and to handing out more scholarships.
If CUSA folds, and we are a good team, I think we are an easy choice for the MWC or MAC. We might even get looks from the AAC or a very desperate B12. Worst case scenario is that we go independent, not back to the FCS. FCS should be and would be forever in our rearview mirror.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
The problem is most of them are in the state constitution and can't be closed without an amendment. Agree that Mayville really needs to be merged into VCSU. Dickinson is a degree mill and an embarrassment to the rest of the system. I don't know enough about the junior colleges, but in general there's a nationwide shortage in the trades so I'd lean towards keeping them. If one's a lot worse than the others I'm ok with it going.
There needs to be a Tech system set up with Wahp being the mother ship. Bismarck and Williston should be in this system. Dickinson needs to try and capture the magic Jamestown found and privatize. Mayville just needs to close the doors, the value isn't there for ND tax payers. Bottineau and Lake Region are a little more politically dicey. LR has a little mojo with their Precision Ag stuff but Bottineau has the infastructure, albeit outdated. Minot State and VCSU have a good thing going and should be funded better. Needless to say, NDSU has gotten the short end of the stick for decades and that should change.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
I get why many don't agree with me on this, but you take the CUSA invite if it is there. Football-only if possible. Then you make the conference something decent and interesting. A conference with NDSU, Liberty, UTEP, WKU, and MTSU is inherently more interesting than any FCS conference, including the MVFC. TAKE THE INVITE and begin our FBS journey. The publicity we would get would be huge. JMU has been getting some good write-ups as a new SBC member. We'd have 10 times the coverage. Our move to FBS--even if settling for a less preferable conference--would be a major college sports story and people would tune it to see how it plays out and to see if we really are ready for the next level. Do it, President Cook. Even ESPN gets it.
I mean all those schools mentioned are basically irrelevant in the grand scheme of college football, but hey....LET'S GO. That's what we're shooting for.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
The MWC has already intimated that they will not take FCS teams. They only want FBS teams. That actually makes sense. FBS teams, even in the CUSA, are already acclamated to playing a higher level of teams and to handing out more scholarships.
If CUSA folds, and we are a good team, I think we are an easy choice for the MWC or MAC. We might even get looks from the AAC or a very desperate B12. Worst case scenario is that we go independent, not back to the FCS. FCS should be and would be forever in our rearview mirror.
Are you saying that if CUSA folds and we’re in it, that MW would just throw us a courtesy lifeline? How did that work out for the WAC schools? If we’re in CUSA and it folds, the MW shrugs unless they were already planning on making a move for us.
We can’t afford to go to CUSA right now. Even football only. They need a media deal that doesn’t pay 1/3 what our current one does. I want FBS more than most, but it needs to be feasible. CUSA is not feasible as it currently sits.
Just like we need to be showing the MW, MAC, etc. why they should offer us, CUSA needs to show why we should be interested. They aren’t there yet.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
The MWC has already intimated that they will not take FCS teams. They only want FBS teams. That actually makes sense. FBS teams, even in the CUSA, are already acclamated to playing a higher level of teams and to handing out more scholarships.
If CUSA folds, and we are a good team, I think we are an easy choice for the MWC or MAC. We might even get looks from the AAC or a very desperate B12. Worst case scenario is that we go independent, not back to the FCS. FCS should be and would be forever in our rearview mirror.
I must have missed that message. Link?
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
They need a media contract. They need to show a plan that shows viability beyond 2 years. They need a vision. We'd have 44 more scholarships to fund, 44 more FCOA we'd need to fund, and we'd likely end up losing TV revenue by moving to CUSA. Every school is looking to jump outta that conference the first chance they get. I honestly think it would look better to an FBS conference as a MVFC that has rejected CUSA.
We jump to CUSA:
Best case, we jump to a good G5 conference (no different than now). Worst case, CUSA folds and we come limping back to FCS with a ruined brand and hope MVFC takes us back.
We have a lot to lose and not a lot to gain from jumping...
Is my math wrong or does 85-63=44??
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Valley City and Mayville were among the institutions in the constitution when North Dakota became a state in 1889. People in all parts of the state wanted their piece of the pie and I think some Fargoans wanted something bigger like the state hospital instead of some dumpy cow college. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
https://ndlegis.gov/constit/a08.pdf
I suppose you could try to argue that control and admin of a school includes closing it, but good luck with that.
As for Lurker's point,
I believe this is fallout from the 1910's-20's political interference that caused NDSU to lose accreditation and the first ever recall of a state governor.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Hard pass on the CUSA. Oh HELL no. That move would cause enormous damage to Bison athletics.
The idea that any FBS opponent is superior to any FCS is objectively false. We've had multiple FBS and even P5 WBB teams come to Fargo and attendance was less than half that of UND or SDSU games. Our highest ever "home" FB attendance(by far, almost double) was non-scholarship Butler. Not saying we shouldn't schedule the best teams we can find, because we definitely should, but there's a reason I want to stick with regional rivals.
The idea that joining the CUSA hoping it will fail so the MWC will take us is so beyond stupid I don't even know what to say. Bargaining from a position of desperation rarely works out.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TAILG8R
Is my math wrong or does 85-63=44??
Probably the false idea that 22 men's scholarships means adding 22 women's. Title IX doesn't work that way.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
Hard pass on the CUSA. Oh HELL no. That move would cause enormous damage to Bison athletics.
The idea that any FBS opponent is superior to any FCS is objectively false. We've had multiple FBS and even P5 WBB teams come to Fargo and attendance was less than half that of UND or SDSU games. Our highest ever "home" FB attendance(by far, almost double) was non-scholarship Butler. Not saying we shouldn't schedule the best teams we can find, because we definitely should, but there's a reason I want to stick with regional rivals.
The idea that joining the CUSA hoping it will fail so the MWC will take us is so beyond stupid I don't even know what to say. Bargaining from a position of desperation rarely works out.
That's exactly correct.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
Probably the false idea that 22 men's scholarships means adding 22 women's. Title IX doesn't work that way.
Sorry, we'd have to make a similar investment/opportunity in women's sports right?
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Sorry, we'd have to make a similar investment/opportunity in women's sports right?
Title IX is an anti-discrimination law that does not target athletics. Compliance is very complicated and even my limited understanding of it is far beyond the scope of this thread. One thing I do know is that it's not a strict 1/1 M/W scholarship. NDSU has traditionally followed the "3rd prong" which is providing enough to be competitive, and since our women's sports as a whole are arguably more successful than our men we might even get away with adding 22 FB scholarships without any W increase just to make up that gap. In reality we could probably just add W tennis with their 8 schollies and be fine.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daddy daycare
I mean all those schools mentioned are basically irrelevant in the grand scheme of college football, but hey....LET'S GO. That's what we're shooting for.
We are shooting for FBS. And I'm sorry...but I actually find those teams somewhat intriguing. In any case, I find them relevant because they are FBS. If we are in their conference, that means we are FBS. If we are FBS, we get to play even better teams OOC. Right now we get to regularly play really "relevant" teams like WIU, YSU, and Drake. Oh, and we get the priviledge of playing a mediocre FBS team every 7 years or so.
Regarding those saying we would lose revenue, how about negotiating. Maybe we could negotiate with the CUSA that NDSU can independently have a side media deal to make up for any loss of revenue from whatever the CUSA deal brings. In any case, figure out a way to make it work.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
I must have missed that message. Link?
It was a Craig Thompson interview a few weeks ago, shortly after the USC/UCLA announcement. It was either posted elsewhere in Bisonville or on the MWC board. I don't remember where.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
Hard pass on the CUSA. Oh HELL no. That move would cause enormous damage to Bison athletics.
The idea that any FBS opponent is superior to any FCS is objectively false. We've had multiple FBS and even P5 WBB teams come to Fargo and attendance was less than half that of UND or SDSU games. Our highest ever "home" FB attendance(by far, almost double) was non-scholarship Butler. Not saying we shouldn't schedule the best teams we can find, because we definitely should, but there's a reason I want to stick with regional rivals.
The idea that joining the CUSA hoping it will fail so the MWC will take us is so beyond stupid I don't even know what to say. Bargaining from a position of desperation rarely works out.
I didn't say that we should join the CUSA and hope it fails. I've consistently said that we should be open to joining the CUSA if that's our only FBS option and trying to make it something better. But if it failed, I think we'd have options.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
It was a Craig Thompson interview a few weeks ago, shortly after the USC/UCLA announcement. It was either posted elsewhere in Bisonville or on the MWC board. I don't remember where.
I believe the interview you are referring to was when Thompson talked about the phone calls he gets from various schools, regularly. I don't think he intimated or outright said they wouldn't take an FCS school. The MW hasn't added directly from FCS before but the situation is always fluid..Who knows?
Off the top of my head the only conferences to add directly from FCS lately are the Belt and, now, CUSA. But, again, fluid..
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
To clarify a bit. The Big West and the WAC when they were FBS did add directly from FCS.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
I didn't say that we should join the CUSA and hope it fails. I've consistently said that we should be open to joining the CUSA if that's our only FBS option and trying to make it something better. But if it failed, I think we'd have options.
Being an independent wouldn't be ideal, but if we were in the CUSA and it folded, wouldn't the NCAA have to let teams that can't find a home go the independent route?
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
I keep hearing this "go FBS anywhere so we get to a better conference" enough I need to debunk it. No counting this year's announcements, there have been a total of 31 FCS to FBS teams, not including the total failure of FAMU. Just 1(UCF, joined FBS 1996) got a P5 invite, and it took 26 years for the 2nd highest enrollment university in the country to get it.
MWC is widely considered the best G5. Former FCS they added were SDSU(joined 1969), UNLV(1978), Nevada(1992), and Boise St(1996).
The idea that we can just move up the ladder is not backed up by history.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hammerhead
Being an independent wouldn't be ideal, but if we were in the CUSA and it folded, wouldn't the NCAA have to let teams that can't find a home go the independent route?
I would think yes. It’s my thought that if we went CUSA football only we’d likely be independent in a few years. Some people don’t see an issue with that.
I think we have a very, very hard time filling a schedule with 12 games and getting 6 home games.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I keep hearing this "go FBS anywhere so we get to a better conference" enough I need to debunk it. No counting this year's announcements, there have been a total of 31 FCS to FBS teams, not including the total failure of FAMU. Just 1(UCF, joined FBS 1996) got a P5 invite, and it took 26 years for the 2nd highest enrollment university in the country to get it.
MWC is widely considered the best G5. Former FCS they added were SDSU(joined 1969), UNLV(1978), Nevada(1992), and Boise St(1996).
The idea that we can just move up the ladder is not backed up by history.
The MW has only been in existence since 1999. The PCAA/Big West was not 1AA. None of the 4 you mentioned were direct from 1AA or FCS when added to the MW. I am not saying you can't or won't be added to the MW, just that no one ever has made the jump from FCS directly to the MW.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I keep hearing this "go FBS anywhere so we get to a better conference" enough I need to debunk it. No counting this year's announcements, there have been a total of 31 FCS to FBS teams, not including the total failure of FAMU. Just 1(UCF, joined FBS 1996) got a P5 invite, and it took 26 years for the 2nd highest enrollment university in the country to get it.
MWC is widely considered the best G5. Former FCS they added were SDSU(joined 1969), UNLV(1978), Nevada(1992), and Boise St(1996).
The idea that we can just move up the ladder is not backed up by history.
knowledge bomb
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
We are shooting for FBS. And I'm sorry...but I actually find those teams somewhat intriguing. In any case, I find them relevant because they are FBS. If we are in their conference, that means we are FBS. If we are FBS, we get to play even better teams OOC. Right now we get to regularly play really "relevant" teams like WIU, YSU, and Drake. Oh, and we get the priviledge of playing a mediocre FBS team every 7 years or so.
Regarding those saying we would lose revenue, how about negotiating. Maybe we could negotiate with the CUSA that NDSU can independently have a side media deal to make up for any loss of revenue from whatever the CUSA deal brings. In any case, figure out a way to make it work.
The FBS label doesn't make them relevant. You wanna see an empty fargodome go ahead and join that conference.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I keep hearing this "go FBS anywhere so we get to a better conference" enough I need to debunk it. No counting this year's announcements, there have been a total of 31 FCS to FBS teams, not including the total failure of FAMU. Just 1(UCF, joined FBS 1996) got a P5 invite, and it took 26 years for the 2nd highest enrollment university in the country to get it.
MWC is widely considered the best G5. Former FCS they added were SDSU(joined 1969), UNLV(1978), Nevada(1992), and Boise St(1996).
The idea that we can just move up the ladder is not backed up by history.
Your missing one small detail...each one of those schools was fully transitioned and proved they could be successful at 1A football before getting a MWC invite.
There are only 3 realistic paths forward for NDSU to move to FBS. Each has it's merits and draw backs. Any other scenario, especially the one where we keep doing business "as is" and patiently wait by the phone is a pipe dream.
1. Join a fledgling CUSA, complete the transition and gradually fund the AD so our budget is up to the MWC/AAC mean and pray for a MWC/AAC invite.
2. Pray that we could get an exemption like Liberty and move Football to FBS as an Independent. Win some bowl games and prove we belong and then hope for a MWC/AAC invite.
3. Remain in FCS and fundraise so that our athletic department is transition ready with a mid tier MWC/AAC budget baked in. Bring all athletic facilities up to a top level G5 standard. Build a new basketball arena where Dacotah field is and hire a coach that elevates the program to a solid mid major. Once achieved we pray that the Valley decides to move up to FBS and invites us as a full member or hope the PAC/Big XII expand and blow up the MWC/AAC forcing them into panic mode.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AKBison
Your missing one small detail...each one of those schools was fully transitioned and proved they could be successful at 1A football before getting a MWC invite.
Sure, if you're cherry picking the successes it looks great. How many fully transitioned and fell into obscurity? Note that all the MWC call-ups are solidly in their footprint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tball_programs
Sort by Joined FBS date. What percentage of those schools would you consider to be a successfull jump?
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Let’s take this discussion in a different direction
Question for taper and daddy daycare – what FBS conference would you be OK with NDSU joining, and under what terms?
I get the impression that you are both very attached to UND but given the fact that they subsidize heavily already to "match" NDSU, I see no possibility of them ever making the jump to FBS because of $$. Hockey is a very expensive sport, and they might have to reinstate WIH soon. So please leave them off the table in your answer to the above question
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Let’s take this discussion in a different direction
Question for taper and daddy daycare – what FBS conference would you be OK with NDSU joining, and under what terms?
I get the impression that you are both very attached to UND but given the fact that they subsidize heavily already to "match" NDSU, I see no possibility of them ever making the jump to FBS because of $$. Hockey is a very expensive sport, and they might have to reinstate WIH soon. So please leave them off the table in your answer to the above question
I've been on record and continue to say I'd like to see us and SDSU in the MAC. I think that's a great fit on basically all fronts. Problem is the MAC doesn't seem to feel the need to expand. I think MWC is a fantasy because we're simply not a mutual good fit and they have a lot of other options before getting down to us. CUSA is a dumpster fire we should avoid at all costs. P5, Sunbelt, and AAC are essentially impossible so I'm not considering them. If the NCAA landscape is completely upset and a nationwide realignment is forced upon us, the Dakotas, Montanas, plus a few others would make a solid FBS conference. Very low chance of that happening though.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Let’s take this discussion in a different direction
Question for taper and daddy daycare – what FBS conference would you be OK with NDSU joining, and under what terms?
I get the impression that you are both very attached to UND but given the fact that they subsidize heavily already to "match" NDSU, I see no possibility of them ever making the jump to FBS because of $$. Hockey is a very expensive sport, and they might have to reinstate WIH soon. So please leave them off the table in your answer to the above question
Attached to UND makes me laugh. Like NDSU is USC and UND/SDSU are Northland Tech. Any school mentioned above (Liberty, WKU) wouldn't bring near the atmosphere of UND or SDSU, hate to break it to you (history, geography, conference game and or playoff loser goes home).
What would be OK? Under what terms? Who the fuck knows. There is no easy solution like James Madison walked into. All sports or football only? That's a bigger pickle. Football only and bury the rest of NDSU athletics? Have fun with that.
So what is OK? Haven't seen it posted here...and apparently the NDSU admin hasn't either.
Good to banter about though.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I've been on record and continue to say I'd like to see us and SDSU in the MAC. I think that's a great fit on basically all fronts. Problem is the MAC doesn't seem to feel the need to expand. I think MWC is a fantasy because we're simply not a mutual good fit and they have a lot of other options before getting down to us. CUSA is a dumpster fire we should avoid at all costs. P5, Sunbelt, and AAC are essentially impossible so I'm not considering them. If the NCAA landscape is completely upset and a nationwide realignment is forced upon us, the Dakotas, Montanas, plus a few others would make a solid FBS conference. Very low chance of that happening though.
I'm down with that. Common sense and logic. You just type it better.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daddy daycare
I'm down with that. Common sense and logic. You just type it better.
It's not logical to say that UND or USD is an FBS program.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I've been on record and continue to say I'd like to see us and SDSU in the MAC. I think that's a great fit on basically all fronts. Problem is the MAC doesn't seem to feel the need to expand. I think MWC is a fantasy because we're simply not a mutual good fit and they have a lot of other options before getting down to us. CUSA is a dumpster fire we should avoid at all costs. P5, Sunbelt, and AAC are essentially impossible so I'm not considering them. If the NCAA landscape is completely upset and a nationwide realignment is forced upon us, the Dakotas, Montanas, plus a few others would make a solid FBS conference. Very low chance of that happening though.
Not going to surprise you, but I disagree about the MW. They're actually the only conference that has been willing to go on record to say that our name has come up. I would argue the MAC has more potential options before us than the MW. Who does the MW have? UTEP and NM State? They're just as far as the Dakotas, they bring 0 eyeballs and the one school they benefit based on proximity (UNM) would be 1,000x against those schools joining.
The MAC is a bus league throughout, and we are a flight for every school in the conference. To me that just seems too much for the whole conference to get behind.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin
It's not logical to say that UND or USD is an FBS program.
The same people saying we'd have a tough time making the financials work are pumping up USD and UND athletic departments to come up with enough cash to make it happen? Ha!
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
DiD wE gO fBs Eh?
Lots of posts today.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
The same people saying we'd have a tough time making the financials work are pumping up USD and UND athletic departments to come up with enough cash to make it happen? Ha!
I would *much* rather stay FCS than let UND hitch a ride on our coattails to an FBS tier.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scottietohottie
DiD wE gO fBs Eh?
Lots of posts today.
maybe the real going fbs was the friends/shitposts we made along the way
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
The MWC has already intimated that they will not take FCS teams. They only want FBS teams. That actually makes sense. FBS teams, even in the CUSA, are already acclamated to playing a higher level of teams and to handing out more scholarships.
If CUSA folds, and we are a good team, I think we are an easy choice for the MWC or MAC. We might even get looks from the AAC or a very desperate B12. Worst case scenario is that we go independent, not back to the FCS. FCS should be and would be forever in our rearview mirror.
I've never heard that from anyone reliable that MW only wants FCS teams. The other thing is, the more good teams that go to CUSA the more stable they will become. I really think a sold football team like NDSU would turn them around. Look at the Sun Belt. A few years ago everyone was going to wright them off.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
Sure, if you're cherry picking the successes it looks great. How many fully transitioned and fell into obscurity? Note that all the MWC call-ups are solidly in their footprint.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tball_programs
Sort by Joined FBS date. What percentage of those schools would you consider to be a successfull jump?
West of the Mississippi? Just one, Idaho.
ETA: ULM
ETA2: I misread your post, all were successful west of the Mississippi except for ULM and Idaho. Idaho has already transitioned back to FCS and ULM should, they are a disgrace.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
daddy daycare
The FBS label doesn't make them relevant. You wanna see an empty fargodome go ahead and join that conference.
So you're saying no one will come just because of the conference? BS. Everyone of the CUSA teams has far more to offer than WIU, Indiana State, and Murray State. Probably better than YSU, Illinois State, and until very recently, Missery State.
-
Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kevin
It's not logical to say that UND or USD is an FBS program.
Same as it's not logical to say Brookings is an FBS town. I just don't get why people think SDSU can move up. What support do they have in place for that kind of move? I don't see it.
It will only ever happen in a scenario where everything goes to hell and there is a major divide among NCAA football where the FBS isn't the FBS as we know it now.
So in closing waiting for SDSU to be a partner is a dead end. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
