A new and better FBS thread

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Someone brought up Title IX.

First, has a group tried to resurrect a failed suit against UND (for dropping women's hockey)? Yes. Will it fail again? More than likely given same attorney, same claims, and plaintiffs with less standing than the first go-around. That's before I mention that UND had the best Title IX firm in the country on retainer when it went through the evaluation and action of dropping the sport. (That's why the first suit failed.)

If NDSU goes FBS it'll surely go from (FCS) 63 to (FBS) 85 equivalencies, 22 more for men's sports. NDSU will find that money. But where will it put 22 additional women's equivalencies? NDSU is max'd out per this site. It sounds like "add a sport" to make it work.

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When und has the "best title X firm on retainer" who pays for that?

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

lol. stfu. we don't care about und. just the pud fans do.
real d1 ndsu fans want more. you dipshits are the ones holding us back

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WAIT!!!! I thought Larson was holding us back???

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Originally Posted by Bison Dan

When und has the "best title X firm on retainer" who pays for that?

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Same folks if UND hadn't dropped sports to balance the budget.

The retainer stopped the bleeding.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

STRAWMAN !!

Im gonna repeat for the 100th time, because you and the bison media dorks don't understand:

if NDSU is in the MWC, that's 5 games in Fargo.
Nevada for example would FLY to Fargo every other year, right now Nevada flies to Boise/Wyoming.. flying to Fargo is 1 hour longer, BIG FUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKIN DEAL!!!

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The fact that you can’t wrap your mind around geography makes your entire fbs argument irrelevant. If NDSU is located elsewhere….your blow job dream would’ve went down along time ago.

It’s not about others flying here every other year….oh and of course, once again, there’s a reason they don’t want NDSU in their conference and it has nothing to do with in field performance.

Geography plays 'no' role if we are talking football only. If you are hoping for an all sports invitation geography that is trickier. However, if the MW wants you they will invite you and take on your olympic sports too.. At this time there are no vacancies. The tv providers informed the MW that they would not boost the payout for additional members. The TV deal runs until 2026.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

The fact that you can’t wrap your mind around geography makes your entire fbs argument irrelevant. If NDSU is located elsewhere….your blow job dream would’ve went down along time ago.

It’s not about others flying here every other year….oh and of course, once again, there’s a reason they don’t want NDSU in their conference and it has nothing to do with in field performance.

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they don't want NDSU walking in Day 1 and kicking their asses

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Same folks if UND hadn't dropped sports to balance the budget.

The retainer stopped the bleeding.

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They stopped nothing - und's athletic dept still dips deep into the general fund to support their sports.

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

Well they don’t want us because of the geography, but yeah 100%. At this point I think everyone is on board with going MW if we got an invite. I’d guess a slim majority would want to go if we got an invite to MAC, and very few of us would want to go CUSA. Does that sound right?

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By "everyone" do you mean everyone active in this thread, the general fanbase, or something else? I think it's very arrogant to assume you know the mind of everyone. I for one am 100% against any jump that doesn't involve at least one regional partner. I think that because I'm confident going alone will be a failure and I don't want to harm NDSU. The simplest measure of fan interest(attendance) says the exact opposite of your position.

The Hawaii model is informative. They are a helluva lot farther away than Fargo. When they joined the original WAC it was for all sports and they did that for decades. Every current MW took all their teams to Hawaii and vice versa. When the MW invited Nevada and Fresno State, Hawaii made an offer to the MW. If the conference would take them as football only they would offer subsidized travel to the islands. They told the MW that they specifically did not want to be in the conference for all sports. That was their idea. They thought the Big West worked better for them. They pay subsidies to that conference too.

The MW made no demands..They took what Hawaii offered.

You are not as far away as Ruston Louisiana. La Tech did a stretch in the WAC. All sports.

Your geography is not the concern at all. If the MW wants you they will add you for all sports. It is possible your admin believes all sports would not be good for you. That could be a consideration on your side.

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Originally Posted by MWC

The Hawaii model is informative. They are a helluva lot farther away than Fargo. When they joined the original WAC it was for all sports and they did that for decades. Every current MW took all their teams to Hawaii and vice versa. When the MW invited Nevada and Fresno State, Hawaii made an offer to the MW. If the conference would take them as football only they would offer subsidized travel to the islands. They told the MW that they specifically did not want to be in the conference for all sports. That was their idea. They thought the Big West worked better for them. They pay subsidies to that conference too.

The MW made no demands..They took what Hawaii offered.

You are not as far away as Ruston Louisiana. La Tech did a stretch in the WAC. All sports.

Your geography is not the concern at all. If the MW wants you they will add you for all sports. It is possible your admin believes all sports would not be good for you. That could be a consideration on your side.

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Teams that travel to Hawaii are allowed an extra game on the schedule by the NCAA, specifically to help mitigate the geography issue. That's a massive bonus that we're not going to get. At least compare apples to apples.

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Originally Posted by taper

Teams that travel to Hawaii are allowed an extra game on the schedule by the NCAA, specifically to help mitigate the geography issue. That's a massive bonus that we're not going to get. At least compare apples to apples.

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You missed the point..Hawaii did decades of all sports without subsidies or even the extra game. You guys think your geography is the only reason you aren't on the radar. That is an excuse...

If you came to the to the MW as football only you would have to pay for that. Hawaii offered to pay the subsidies..It was their idea. If the MW wants you they will add you. Geography plays no role whatsoever..

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Originally Posted by MWC

You missed the point..Hawaii did decades of all sports without subsidies or even the extra game. You guys think your geography is the only reason you aren't on the radar. That is an excuse...

If you came to the to the MW as football only you would have to pay for that. Hawaii offered to pay the subsidies..It was their idea. If the MW wants you they will add you. Geography plays no role whatsoever..

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I am glad you are on here...adds a unique perspective on these discussions. Hope you keep sticking around.

I disagree that geography plays no role whatsoever, but I agree it isn't the only reason. Just not a large enough population base to be enticing.

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Originally Posted by MWC

You missed the point..Hawaii did decades of all sports without subsidies or even the extra game. You guys think your geography is the only reason you aren't on the radar. That is an excuse...

If you came to the to the MW as football only you would have to pay for that. Hawaii offered to pay the subsidies..It was their idea. If the MW wants you they will add you. Geography plays no role whatsoever..

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So you have the 2 biggest issues in college sports. Geography and money.

Your football is valuable. Your market is pretty small but that would not be a barrier if a conference really wanted your football.

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Originally Posted by MWC

You missed the point..Hawaii did decades of all sports without subsidies or even the extra game. You guys think your geography is the only reason you aren't on the radar. That is an excuse...

If you came to the to the MW as football only you would have to pay for that. Hawaii offered to pay the subsidies..It was their idea. If the MW wants you they will add you. Geography plays no role whatsoever..

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Did Lakes hack your account? In posts less than 30 minutes apart this morning you first said geography was tricky, then it's not a concern at all? I don't remember anyone saying geography was an automatic deal breaker, but it is most definitely a top 3 reason we haven't gotten an invite from anyone.
I do like your perspective.

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

So you have the 2 biggest issues in college sports. Geography and money.

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You would not have to pay if you went all sports. The cost analysis is all on your side. Is it better to pay for 4 home games ( around 800 grand) or the expense involved with sending your non revenue sports all over ? You have a tighter map with the Summit for your oly sports. There is value there. If your goal is the MW your AD can run the umbers and see what works. When Hawaii made their calculation, the Big West was better for them because they were not going to cold places at high elevation. Quicker trips to sunny California is not bad.

Your AD has to do what works best for you. Unfortunately, the MW does not give away football only spots..It costs money. The key is the MW has to want you and you have to want the MW..Anything is workable.

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Originally Posted by taper

By "everyone" do you mean everyone active in this thread, the general fanbase, or something else? I think it's very arrogant to assume you know the mind of everyone. I for one am 100% against any jump that doesn't involve at least one regional partner. I think that because I'm confident going alone will be a failure and I don't want to harm NDSU. The simplest measure of fan interest(attendance) says the exact opposite of your position.

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I meant in the context of the core fan base (season ticket holders, donors, etc.). And 'everyone' in the context of 90+% of that core fan base. Nothing is every 100% agreed upon by every single person. I knew someone would get excited about my usage of 'everyone' and not 'vast majority'.

I agree that having a partner (SDSU) would be ideal. I think there's benefit to having a competitive historical rival, and it would help with travel. At the end of the day if a MW football-only invite comes I really don't care if SDSU is coming with or not.

Again, I don't understand your attendance point. Our attendance is plunging even with all of our "regional rivalries". Shows how much they matter to the NDSU fans at this point. Maybe our current regional rivals aren't regional enough? Maybe we should drop down to the NSIC? Then we could achieve peak regionality! Think of the attendance then!

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Originally Posted by taper

Did Lakes hack your account? In posts less than 30 minutes apart this morning you first said geography was tricky, then it's not a concern at all? I don't remember anyone saying geography was an automatic deal breaker, but it is most definitely a top 3 reason we haven't gotten an invite from anyone.
I do like your perspective.

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I explained why it is trickier..The tough decision would be on "your" side. Does your AD want to take that on? The MW would have no problem adding you all sports if they want you. At this time they do not. There are no vacancies, the tv people won't cover the expense and no school has left yet. Everything is fluid now. Schools will be moving around.

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Originally Posted by MWC

You would not have to pay if you went all sports. The cost analysis is all on your side. Is it better to pay for 4 home games ( around 800 grand) or the expense involved with sending your non revenue sports all over ? You have a tighter map with the Summit for your oly sports. There is value there. If your goal is the MW your AD can run the umbers and see what works. When Hawaii made their calculation, the Big West was better for them because they were not going to cold places at high elevation. Quicker trips to sunny California is not bad.

Your AD has to do what works best for you. Unfortunately, the MW does not give away football only spots..It costs money. The key is the MW has to want you and you have to want the MW..Anything is workable.

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Yep, at the end of the day we're back where we started: the MW has to want NDSU. They aren't going to want NDSU based on geography, major market, recruiting hotbed, etc. All we have to give the MW is that we're a very stable upper-G5 level program with really good academics. Most of us are just hoping for some upcoming instability to change the calculus so that the MW is interested in that.

Yo MWC ... if the MWC was looking, why wouldn't they look at the Montana schools*?


*Admittedly I gave a reason earlier today in that they don't have 16 NCAA sports.

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Originally Posted by El_Chapo

NDSU would create a buzz day 1 with our fanbase traveling to these new towns and they will resent the fact that our "lowly d2" school will be kicking their asses on day 1. the rivals will happen instantly

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I actually agree with this 100%. We would have instant rivals in the MWC if we could actually get that football only invite……. Honestly is that ever going to happen?

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I meant in the context of the core fan base (season ticket holders, donors, etc.). And 'everyone' in the context of 90+% of that core fan base. Nothing is every 100% agreed upon by every single person. I knew someone would get excited about my usage of 'everyone' and not 'vast majority'.

I agree that having a partner (SDSU) would be ideal. I think there's benefit to having a competitive historical rival, and it would help with travel. At the end of the day if a MW football-only invite comes I really don't care if SDSU is coming with or not.

Again, I don't understand your attendance point. Our attendance is plunging even with all of our "regional rivalries". Shows how much they matter to the NDSU fans at this point. Maybe our current regional rivals aren't regional enough? Maybe we should drop down to the NSIC? Then we could achieve peak regionality! Think of the attendance then!

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UND, SDSU. Full House. Always will be.

The MW isn't looking for anybody at the moment. The current tv deal runs through 2026. They could be looking for additions then, particularly if they lose some current members. They would most certainly vet the Montana schools. They have before. I suspect they have vetted NDSU and SDSU as well.

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Originally Posted by The_Sicatoka

Yo MWC ... if the MWC was looking, why wouldn't they look at the Montana schools*?


*Admittedly I gave a reason earlier today in that they don't have 16 NCAA sports.

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With an additional 22 additional men's scholarships, both Montana schools are likely looking at adding additional sport to maintain compliance anyway, so the problem of being one short fixes itself.

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Originally Posted by B.Schlossman Fan Club

I actually agree with this 100%. We would have instant rivals in the MWC if we could actually get that football only invite……. Honestly is that ever going to happen?

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The MW invited Boise state and TCU absolutely knowing they would be kicking ass. That was the idea. Were NDSU be invited they would no longer be a lowly D2 school. They would be a conference mate and expected to be really good..There is no reason to add them if they don't make things better. The MW is not in the charity business..

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Originally Posted by MWC

The MW isn't looking for anybody at the moment. The current tv deal runs through 2026. They could be looking for additions then, particularly if they lose some current members. They would most certainly vet the Montana schools. They have before. I suspect they have vetted NDSU and SDSU as well.

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4 more years! 4 more years!

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Originally Posted by daddy daycare

4 more years! 4 more years!

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Maybe, however the need for replacements in the MW could happen any day. The tv people said they wouldn't bump up the contract for more than 12. No word about what might be the case with replacements..

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Originally Posted by NDSU92

I meant in the context of the core fan base (season ticket holders, donors, etc.). And 'everyone' in the context of 90+% of that core fan base. Nothing is every 100% agreed upon by every single person. I knew someone would get excited about my usage of 'everyone' and not 'vast majority'.

I agree that having a partner (SDSU) would be ideal. I think there's benefit to having a competitive historical rival, and it would help with travel. At the end of the day if a MW football-only invite comes I really don't care if SDSU is coming with or not.

Again, I don't understand your attendance point. Our attendance is plunging even with all of our "regional rivalries". Shows how much they matter to the NDSU fans at this point. Maybe our current regional rivals aren't regional enough? Maybe we should drop down to the NSIC? Then we could achieve peak regionality! Think of the attendance then!

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This is one of those things you can get any result you want based on how you ask the question. If you asked the average fan if NDSU football should be FBS, I agree the answer would be yes. However, if you asked that same fan if NDSU should leave the 3 Dakotas, UNI, and all other nearby schools behind, double student fees, move media rights to subscription streaming service, and join a conference full of FCS Texas schools that rebranded themselves as FBS with finances so bad the schools may have to pay the conference I think you'd get a different answer.
I'm describing a CUSA invite above, as I see that as the most likely yet worst conference that would offer us. MWC has the same cons as leaving our rivals and long distance.

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Originally Posted by taper

This is one of those things you can get any result you want based on how you ask the question. If you asked the average fan if NDSU football should be FBS, I agree the answer would be yes. However, if you asked that same fan if NDSU should leave the 3 Dakotas, UNI, and all other nearby schools behind, double student fees, move media rights to subscription streaming service, and join a conference full of FCS Texas schools that rebranded themselves as FBS with finances so bad the schools may have to pay the conference I think you'd get a different answer.
I'm describing a CUSA invite above, as I see that as the most likely yet worst conference that would offer us. MWC has the same cons as leaving our rivals and long distance.

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Right, which is why I broke it down into the three conference options. But to your point even those conference options get more nuanced, such as who is potentially going with us and who is leaving that is making the conference look to us to join.

Really with the original post I was trying to establish common ground. At the end of the day I think we're all really arguing the same thing; except for Lakes who can't figure it out, MWC (who's not really arguing anything but providing great info and new perspective) and I think one other poster who actually wants us to join the CUSA.

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Originally Posted by taper

This is one of those things you can get any result you want based on how you ask the question. If you asked the average fan if NDSU football should be FBS, I agree the answer would be yes. However, if you asked that same fan if NDSU should leave the 3 Dakotas, UNI, and all other nearby schools behind, double student fees, move media rights to subscription streaming service, and join a conference full of FCS Texas schools that rebranded themselves as FBS with finances so bad the schools may have to pay the conference I think you'd get a different answer.
I'm describing a CUSA invite above, as I see that as the most likely yet worst conference that would offer us. MWC has the same cons as leaving our rivals and long distance.

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I wonder what the average NDSU fan is? I've never had a conversation with anyone about FBS in person...just this message board. I don't think the older generation - of which there or A LOT and who donate A LOT of money - wants much to do with FBS too be honest. Could care less if NDSU "scrolls across the ticker in NYC."

Anyway...super hard to renew season tickets this year, i'll agree with that. However, after 20 some years of weekend roadtrips to tailgate and games I don't think any FBS conference will get me too excited...garage beers and TV would be just fine for me. (OLD MAN YELLING AT TV GIF)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghQBOqywVcM

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Originally Posted by Bison_Pride

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghQBOqywVcM

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"Jackson St belongs in B1G and Georgia St is a P5 team now"
LOL

Northern Iowa was in the NCC until the NCAA implemented divsions I, II and III instead of just the college and university divisions. St. Thomas was also a charter member of the NCC.

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Originally Posted by OrygunBison

Regarding rivalries, our current conference doesn’t really offer long-term historic references other than UND or SDSU. The UNI rivalry lit up pretty well right when we joined the MVFC. Other than that, the rest of our conference "rivalries" will be very easy to replace. Hell, UNI & UND aren't really competitive anymore so those have kinda fizzled anyway. I have no doubt that at least on the NDSU fanbase's side, new rivalries will be established in the MWC just about by the time the initial excitement of the move starts to wain. I'm also confident in the ability of our fans to annoy other fanbases and stoke the rivalry from the other side.

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Originally Posted by BigHorns

"Jackson St belongs in B1G and Georgia St is a P5 team now"
LOL

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NDSU ain't worried about being "exposed" by playing in a FBS conference. NDSU would be the ones exposing every G5 conference as a waste of 22 scholarships by contending for a conference title in their first season.

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Originally Posted by Hammerhead

NDSU ain't worried about being "exposed" by playing in a FBS conference. NDSU would be the ones exposing every G5 conference as a waste of 22 scholarships by contending for a conference title in their first season.

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Correct. That guy is clueless. I'm shocked, shocked I say!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Nvmnd.....

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Originally Posted by Hammerhead

NDSU ain't worried about being "exposed" by playing in a FBS conference. NDSU would be the ones exposing every G5 conference as a waste of 22 scholarships by contending for a conference title in their first season.

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Do you promise that would be the case?..Because otherwise there is no reason for any conference to add NDSU at all.

I see lots of posts about how great it would be for NDSU to move up but very few outlining what is in it for the MW.

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Originally Posted by taper

This is one of those things you can get any result you want based on how you ask the question. If you asked the average fan if NDSU football should be FBS, I agree the answer would be yes. However, if you asked that same fan if NDSU should leave the 3 Dakotas, UNI, and all other nearby schools behind, double student fees, move media rights to subscription streaming service, and join a conference full of FCS Texas schools that rebranded themselves as FBS with finances so bad the schools may have to pay the conference I think you'd get a different answer.
I'm describing a CUSA invite above, as I see that as the most likely yet worst conference that would offer us. MWC has the same cons as leaving our rivals and long distance.

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Just out of curiosity, what was your thoughts on NDSU joining the Great West with recent move up schools from California and Utah? I bet I know the answer...

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Originally Posted by TAILG8R

Correct. That guy is clueless. I'm shocked, shocked I say!!

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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Seriously? The guy says Jackson State should go to the B10????? JFC Jackson state can barely hang against then shit teams they play now.

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Originally Posted by 56BISON73

Seriously? The guy says Jackson State should go to the B10????? JFC Jackson state can barely hang against then shit teams they play now.

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He seemed confused about FBS and P5..