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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
That assumes the Pac still exists and MWC accept invites. That's most definitely not guaranteed if the B1G takes more teams. I can easily see a scenario with the Pac being reduced to WSU, OSU, and 0-3 other schools. That group has zero bargaining power and will be picked apart.
I have no clue how this will all play out but it is probably not a good idea to assume anything. USC and UCLA have a hall pass the other Pac 12 members don't have. The P12 tv deal ends in 2024.
They can leave without getting really hashed by exit fees and GOR status. The other 10 schools have already signed off on an extension of Grant of Rights beyond 2024.. USC and UCLA have not signed on to the extension. That removes a whole lot of obstacles to moving in 2024. The other schools will have to get past the GOR and that is not easy..Or cheap.
Anything is possible but it is not out of the question that the 10 remaining schools will stick it out together. They may not look to add anybody. More mouths to feed..
The MW schools also have some of the same obstacles to moving until 2026. The reason CSU and AFA did not go to the AAC is that conference wouldn't pay their exit fees to the MW. The MW almost certainly is not looking to add at this time.
That is not to say any MW school would turn down an invitation to move to P5. They would make the jump and figure out how to pay for it.
However, none of us know what will happen..There is a serious dollar chase going on with the big boy conferences. That may make for some strange bed fellows and really unexpected twists and turns.
In the words of that noted philosopher, Cindy Lauper, Money...Money Changes Everything!
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
taper
I'm having a hard time seeing how NDSU benefits from this. We're definitely not alone in not benefiting. If the B1G stop at 16 then probably nothing else changes for now. If they expand then the Pac12 is done and either dissolves or merges with the Big12. Either way there's a glut of FBS schools looking for a home and we're near the bottom of the list. WSU and OSU have a realistic possibility of being left out and dropping to the MWC out of necessity, and don't have any illusions a conference would pick us over them.
If anything it shows how far behind NDSU is in the metrics they find valuable for being of interest to another conference.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
https://mwwire.com/2022/07/03/mounta...osing-members/
https://mwwire.com/2022/07/04/report...g-with-big-12/
MWC spinning it hard. Too funny. Even if the PAC is down to 4, they’ll be the ones doing the inviting, not the MWC
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
While Jeremy Maus is a fun blogger, he is not the MWC.. He is not connected..He is not an insider...He is just guessing like everyone else..He might be spinning but the MW has remained officially silent about all of this..
I do think if the MW loses a couple of members, they will just carry on with 10. If they lose 4 they may look to add one..However, none of that will happen until 2026..
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Reality is the PAC 12 schools get like 20+ million a year from a TV deal. Mountain West gets 5 million a year
**edit it ends in 2024 so I edited it**
Although a conference with Stanford, Cal ,Oregon State and Washington State can demand more money than the Mountain West.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
HerdBot
Reality is the PAC 12 schools get like 20+ million a year from a TV deal. Mountain West gets 5 million a year
**edit it ends in 2024 so I edited it**
Although a conference with Stanford, Cal ,Oregon State and Washington State can demand more money than the Mountain West.
If those 4 schools backfill with a bunch of MW schools they won't ever sniff 20 million a year again..I really don't see the Pac 12 imploding.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
MWC
If those 4 schools backfill with a bunch of MW schools they won't ever sniff 20 million a year again..I really don't see the Pac 12 imploding.
Actually in 2019 it was 33.6 million per team
The contact was old though. It was signed back in 2011 and if they resigned it today with USC and UCLA, they would have gotten more. Back in 2011 they had a bigger contract than the Big 10
The Big 10 now is on a different planet
Mountain West is chump change at 5 million. Oregon themselves are worth more than the Mountain West
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HerdBot
Actually in 2019 it was 33.6 million per team
The contact was old though. It was signed back in 2011 and if they resigned it today with USC and UCLA, they would have gotten more. Back in 2011 they had a bigger contract than the Big 10
The Big 10 now is on a different planet
Mountain West is chump change at 5 million. Oregon themselves are worth more than the Mountain West
MWC may be chump change compared to P5 conferences, but its near the top for G5.
CUSA may be negative millions to support the conference. It looks like they don't even have a media deal yet, they lost all their schools of value.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
I predict what we know now as the B1G, SEC, etc will go away. And the structure of P5/G5 will also be vastly different. This was predicted about 10 years ago and we are finally starting to see some drastic moves in that direction.
TV contracts, bowl tie-ins (if bowls even exist), playoffs could all be blown up and started new to benefit those in power.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
IndyBison
I predict what we know now as the B1G, SEC, etc will go away. And the structure of P5/G5 will also be vastly different. This was predicted about 10 years ago and we are finally starting to see some drastic moves in that direction.
TV contracts, bowl tie-ins (if bowls even exist), playoffs could all be blown up and started new to benefit those in power.
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Yep. I think all these moves are positioning for when the CFP contract expires and is renegotiated.
Some of the conferences are going to have maximum leverage (B1G/SEC) and others left out entirely.
Those left out effectively will no longer be top tier FBS.
The scraps left over will reorganize and likely join with top tier of FCS.
MVFC may land in a good spot if it sits tight. I'd take MVFC over CUSA any day.
I think MWC will still be towards the top of tier 2.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Yep. I think all these moves are positioning for when the CFP contract expires and is renegotiated.
Some of the conferences are going to have maximum leverage (B1G/SEC) and others left out entirely.
Those left out effectively will no longer be top tier FBS.
The scraps left over will reorganize and likely join with top tier of FCS.
MVFC may land in a good spot if it sits tight. I'd take MVFC over CUSA any day.
I think MWC will still be towards the top of tier 2.
Again, it will be the higher conferences doing the inviting, not the other way around. I can't see the MWC/AAC wanting the whole MVFC in their level of FB. This is just wishful thinking.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
What benefit does the G5 have for associating with the FCS? None…
It was dumb to “wait and see what happens” then and it’s dumb now to take that stance. Indiana State, WIU, etc. will never ever in a million years be a part of some G5 replacement. The MVFC conference as a whole is not “moving up”.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
NDSU92
What benefit does the G5 have for associating with the FCS? None…
It was dumb to “wait and see what happens” then and it’s dumb now to take that stance. Indiana State, WIU, etc. will never ever in a million years be a part of some G5 replacement. The MVFC conference as a whole is not “moving up”.
I agree 100%. At this point, it looks more likely the MWC will gain PAC leftovers rather than losing members to the PAC. But even if the MWC does have vacancies, they probably backfill with UTEP and NMSU, or maybe look at UNT. In the VERY unlikely event that they dip into FCS, it will be for Montana and MSU.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Professorbum
I agree 100%. At this point, it looks more likely the MWC will gain PAC leftovers rather than losing members to the PAC. But even if the MWC does have vacancies, they probably backfill with UTEP and NMSU, or maybe look at UNT. In the VERY unlikely event that they dip into FCS, it will be for Montana and MSU.
Montana/MSU/NDSU/SDSU would be a great combo for MWC, assuming all are interested. Montana did turn them down once previously.
MWC would own that block of states with a move like that.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
Montana/MSU/NDSU/SDSU would be a great combo for MWC, assuming all are interested. Montana did turn them down once previously.
MWC would own that block of states with a move like that.
Yes, that would be good
Vannini on 1660 at 12:20 or so
Hate to keep saying it but NDSU is really the only FBS-ready school in FCS, and that’s FB only. The MWC publicly mentioned NDSU a year ago, nobody else ...
If an opportunity surfaces, you’ll have weigh your desire to see better competition against your desire to keep playing the same people you play now
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Professorbum
At this point, it looks more likely the MWC will gain PAC leftovers rather than losing members to the PAC.
I've speculated when all the motion is done ...
The PAC votes to dissolve
6 to the B1G
4 to the XII
2 to the MWC
But none of that happens until Notre Dame does what Notre Dame is going to do.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
“There is also consideration of adding Oregon and Washington to make the Big 12 an 18-team league, the largest in the FBS”
Seems to be real for sure
https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ns-to-big-ten/
Certainly, puts pressure on the PAC to get their shit together with a new TV deal ASAP
But is it really that easy to kill a conference? CUSA would be dead by now. It seems that even if a conference disappears, they reappear as something else. I'm still skeptical the PAC goes away
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
I've speculated when all the motion is done ...
The PAC votes to dissolve
6 to the B1G
4 to the XII
2 to the MWC
But none of that happens until Notre Dame does what Notre Dame is going to do.
Why wouldn't the two remaining schools in the PAC keep the PAC name and add the MW schools (that they wanted to)? If I'm OSU and Wazzou, I'm not associating myself with Hawaii, Wyoming, UNLV, etc. That leaves a depleted Mountain West, which would allow for the XDSU's and Montana schools to be an eastern division.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
“There is also consideration of adding Oregon and Washington to make the Big 12 an 18-team league, the largest in the FBS”
Seems to be real for sure
https://www.cbssports.com/college-fo...ns-to-big-ten/
Certainly, puts pressure on the PAC to get their shit together with a new TV deal ASAP
But is it really that easy to kill a conference? CUSA would be dead by now. It seems that even if a conference disappears, they reappear as something else. I'm still skeptical the PAC goes away
So where to Cal and Stanford end up? The B1G?
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Why wouldn't the two remaining schools in the PAC keep the PAC name and add the MW schools (that they wanted to)? If I'm OSU and Wazzou, I'm not associating myself with Hawaii, Wyoming, UNLV, etc. That leaves a depleted Mountain West, which would allow for the XDSU's and Montana schools to be an eastern division.
In a dissolution vote the outstanding assets are distributed to the schools. Wassu and OrSU can't stop that if the rest want to vote to dissolve. Wassu and OrSU don't have options if that were to happen.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
In a dissolution vote the outstanding assets are distributed to the schools. Wassu and OrSU can't stop that if the rest want to vote to dissolve. Wassu and OrSU don't have options if that were to happen.
Is this what happened to the WAC? How is there still a WAC conference name out there? The Big East?
Not that it really matters, if that's the case and I'm OrSU and Wazzou we're making a new conference with a new brand and I'm driving who gets in. I'm not just "joining the MW". The panic in the MW that would ensue once word got out that you were looking to poach teams would be enough to shake the big programs loose for they'd fear being left behind.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
In a dissolution vote the outstanding assets are distributed to the schools. Wassu and OrSU can't stop that if the rest want to vote to dissolve. Wassu and OrSU don't have options if that were to happen.
How many votes does it take to dissolve? 3/4? That's what I think I saw elsewhere for PAC.
Typically once a member states they are leaving, they no longer get a vote in conference decisions.
That's part of why cusa wasn't disbanded when they lost 9 members in the last round.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
So where to Cal and Stanford end up? The B1G?
Stanford to B1G was contingent on ND going. They would be a rival that makes ND happy.
Cal might be looking elsewhere, haven't seen them connected to B1G rumors.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
How many votes does it take to dissolve? 3/4? That's what I think I saw elsewhere for PAC.
Typically once a member states they are leaving, they no longer get a vote in conference decisions.
That's part of why cusa wasn't disbanded when they lost 9 members in the last round.
Yep, and voting to dissolve the conference on OrSU and Wazzou seems so short-sighted, unless those two schools have done a lot to piss everyone else off. "Yeah we're screwing you by bailing on you, but while we're at it we're gonna throw salt in the wound by burning down the house on our way out." Bad juju like that follows you around for a long time.
Funny part is that the PAC and ACC vetoed expansion of the CFP and doing so likely brought about their own demise even faster. Serves them right.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
If you dissolve the conference you don't pay exit fees, but from what I can find the PAC doesn't seem to have an exit fee so that's moot.
The California gov't has gone insane and banned state funded travel to 24 and growing other states over what they consider discrimination. Stanford is private so they don't care. The public schools used the existing contract exemption for all in conference games and mostly stopped scheduling ban state OOC games, using private funding for select games. The B1G has some ban states but is manageable. ALL existing Big12 schools are in ban states, plus the 4 incoming, plus all but 1 of the rumored expansion targets. Most of the SEC is on the list too. Cal is going to have a hard time justifying that move if the PAC falls apart and B1G doesn't take them. B1G doesn't really need Cal if they get Stanford.
All of this depends on if B1G gets ND and then takes more than 1 other, probably 3. If that happens the dominos are going start falling fast.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
taper
If you dissolve the conference you don't pay exit fees, but from what I can find the PAC doesn't seem to have an exit fee so that's moot.
The California gov't has gone insane and banned state funded travel to 24 and growing other states over what they consider discrimination. Stanford is private so they don't care. The public schools used the existing contract exemption for all in conference games and mostly stopped scheduling ban state OOC games, using private funding for select games. The B1G has some ban states but is manageable. ALL existing Big12 schools are in ban states, plus the 4 incoming, plus all but 1 of the rumored expansion targets. Most of the SEC is on the list too. Cal is going to have a hard time justifying that move if the PAC falls apart and B1G doesn't take them. B1G doesn't really need Cal if they get Stanford.
All of this depends on if B1G gets ND and then takes more than 1 other, probably 3. If that happens the dominos are going start falling fast.
Well right, but there seems to be a pretty easy out then with the exit fees (if they even existed). "Don't make us pay exit fees and we won't close the conference on your ass"
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Yep, and voting to dissolve the conference on OrSU and Wazzou seems so short-sighted, unless those two schools have done a lot to piss everyone else off. "Yeah we're screwing you by bailing on you, but while we're at it we're gonna throw salt in the wound by burning down the house on our way out." Bad juju like that follows you around for a long time.
Funny part is that the PAC and ACC vetoed expansion of the CFP and doing so likely brought about their own demise even faster. Serves them right.
This. So much this
"Alliance" my ass. Need some hemorrhoid cream PAC??? Seems headed for a shake up for sure. ND will like all the attention and take their time ...
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
This. So much this
ND will like all the attention and take their time ...
How does the Leprechaun always seem to end up holding the whip.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
How does the Leprechaun always seem to end up holding the whip.
Having the largest fanbase in America has its perks ;)
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
ByeSonBusiness
Having the largest fanbase in America has its perks ;)
I thought that was NDSU ... :bow:
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
So with all the changes happening within the larger conferences, some schools will move, some will stay where they are. Some conferences might change names, some won't. Some teams might get pulled up from the FCS and some might fall from FBS.
That about wraps up the outlook as anyone knows it currently.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Well right, but there seems to be a pretty easy out then with the exit fees (if they even existed). "Don't make us pay exit fees and we won't close the conference on your ass"
You would think, but it didn't play out that way for CUSA.
Once a team says they are leaving, they lose that membership vote and leverage.
What happened for CUSA is the departing schools went to court, started discovery, and found a bunch of stuff CUSA didn't want exposed.
So, they reached a modest settlement on exit fees, and sealed the records.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
You would think, but it didn't play out that way for CUSA.
Once a team says they are leaving, they lose that membership vote and leverage.
What happened for CUSA is the departing schools went to court, started discovery, and found a bunch of stuff CUSA didn't want exposed.
So, they reached a modest settlement on exit fees, and sealed the records.
Seriously? Like what? That's too funny. I guess that's how we do business over here ...
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
What benefit does the G5 have to be in the FBS other than claiming to be at the highest level of competition and not having a chance to ever get to the playoffs as they are currently configured?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
What benefit does the G5 have for associating with the FCS? None…
It was dumb to “wait and see what happens” then and it’s dumb now to take that stance. Indiana State, WIU, etc. will never ever in a million years be a part of some G5 replacement. The MVFC conference as a whole is not “moving up”.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoRepsTheLurker
Seriously? Like what? That's too funny. I guess that's how we do business over here ...
The case records are sealed, but its strongly rumored this had to do with CUSA financials.
Basically though, they told the court no school would want to be in the conference if this stuff got exposed.
https://www.hubcityspokes.com/local-....MjOOVVTb.dpbs
Quote:
If the confidential information contained in the Confidential Settlement Agreement were to be disclosed, it could negatively impact C-USA’s ability to retain its current members through the next academic terms and to recruit and obtain new ones.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
BigHorns
YIKES!
Run away!
RUN AWAY?
And in light of this new information, I hereby revoke my C-USA North Division concept.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Sicatoka
YIKES!
Run away!
RUN AWAY?
And in light of this new information, I hereby revoke my C-USA North Division concept.
And despite the CUSA dumpster fire, they may outlast the PAC 12. Think about that.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
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Originally Posted by
Hammerhead
What benefit does the G5 have to be in the FBS other than claiming to be at the highest level of competition and not having a chance to ever get to the playoffs as they are currently configured?
Money. Lots of money. In the forms of:
-Larger salaries for staff
-Better leverage with the state gov't on subsidization
-Bigger donations to the school by claiming you're one of the "big boys" to the donors
-Trickle down money from postseasons
-Better FBS money game payouts
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
NDSU92
Money. Lots of money. In the forms of:
-Larger salaries for staff
-Better leverage with the state gov't on subsidization
-Bigger donations to the school by claiming you're one of the "big boys" to the donors
-Trickle down money from postseasons
-Better FBS money game payouts
That's all fine and good as long as it also comes with interesting opponents and games our fans want to see.
The conference membership is important, because that will be about 80% of your home games.
The idea of the CFP expanding was cool, but now it looks like the P2/P5 may own all of it.
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Re: A new and better FBS thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigHorns
That's all fine and good as long as it also comes with interesting opponents and games our fans want to see.
The conference membership is important, because that will be about 80% of your home games.
The idea of the CFP expanding was cool, but now it looks like the P2/P5 may own all of it.
If that's the case, the G5 will make there own FCS style playoff, and no, they won't invite the FCS. It will supplant what the FCS was, though, making us even more irrelevant. I think its more likely the P5 splits internally, and I have no doubt that NDSU would like to play FB in the MWC, certain fan tastes be dammed. A subsection of the fans will just want to see what they know from D2, but they will come around once that is left behind, finally.
If, as a fan, what you want most is to play the other Dakota schools all the time, then you are indeed FCS forever. NDSU may even be regardless, but I certainly hope not ...
