Don't tell them they'll never figure it out. There's airplanes now.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
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Don't tell them they'll never figure it out. There's airplanes now.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Optimism and MN sports fan don't go together. A realistic, common sense approach is the way to go for us midwest folk...you betcha.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
I think it was JFK who said “No one has ever been to the moon. We’re not going to be the first!”Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
If it’s not already in there, add that to your next motivational speech. It’ll really get everyone fired up.Quote:
Originally Posted by daddy daycare
[QUOTE=BigHorns;1572877]Definitely a small sample size but all three of those teams seem to be in conferences that fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Idaho moved up..and moved back down..
Just stop with the indy and/or CUSA talk. There are actually quality places in FBS for us to shoot for.
Go for FBS indy or CUSA and we'll be back to FCS in 4 years with a ruined brand. At least the rivalry with UND would get hot again..
Having pipe dreams is not the same thing as having vision
Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Exactly. Do we want to be the next SHSU, NMSU, Idaho? Most of those teams would lose against MVFC competition.
Or do we want to be the next Boise St?
You are the company you keep. It's hugely important which teams are on the schedule every year.
Honestly??? I'd love to be the next Boise St but we can't ever get there without making a move. Waiting for the MWC to come calling won't work. There are less risky options available to them. As to the "you are the company you keep" line. So true. Right now however our company isn't very desirable. SHSU's company will be MASSIVELY better once they transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHorns
had a thought while taking a shit earlier bros. what if we just start putting mwc logos on our uniforms and our field? sooner or later they'd have to let us in right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
We're #21! Yech.
Out of any possible future scenario, CUSA and Indy are the least desirable. That includes staying put. There is nothing about being desperate that makes us more attractive to the MW.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUguy
If staying put also includes putting dollars toward improving the football gameday experience and funding the basketball programs at a higher level, I would agree with you. If staying put means changing basically nothing, than I would disagree. In my opinion that would be the least desirable option below CUSA and Indy but I think they are all undesirable.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
I just respectfully disagree. Staying put, while the FCS bleeds decent teams, is the least desirable. In my mind, by far. At least from a football standpoint. If we are going to stay in FCS and then set out to become the next Wichita State in basketball, then fine. I could at least understand that approach. But we are far closer to becoming the next Boise State in football than the next Wichita State in basketball. But to do that, we need an FBS schedule. Any FBS schedule is better than the best FCS schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSU92
Sagarin rankings:Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
71 SDSU
91 Montana
92 Montana St
99 UNI
103 Missouri St
109 SIU
117 USD
119 UND
...
146 Louisiana Monroe
151 New Mexico
157 Southern Miss
183 NMSU
190 UConn
194 FIU
211 UMass
Which group would you rather play? I have minimal cherry picking here too, these are FCS teams we regularly play and FBS teams we very likely would if we went CUSA. I don't think WKU and Mid Tenn are going to stick around, they're pretty much the only bright spot in the new CUSA. It'll be Southland 2.0 pretty soon. You guys are acting like joining the CUSA is a golden ticket to the promised land, and it just isn't.
You basically named 90% of the relevent FCS teams, enough said. FBS it is. All I want is a conference, just give our program a ladder much like the Great West.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Joining the MW isn't a golden ticket either..Schools make their hay on their own. If your are kicking back and figuring being in a good conference greases the wheels you are wrong. The example you use is Boise. They have been really good for awhile now but they made their bones in two minor conferences. The Big West and the WAC. There wasn't a whole lot of really successful programs in either.
They put their head down, raised their budgets, improved their facilities and played anybody, anywhere..They had a big chip on their shoulder which sustained their drive in the long climb. They were focussed. They didn't ask for help in their quest.
You may get lucky and get invited to a solid conference right away. That would be good for you. However, I would be hesitant to just assume you will be the next Boise State. What they have accomplished is exceedingly rare. It also took a long time..Nobody gave them a leg up. It was a slog every step of the way.
SDSU, Montanas maybe are only programs that give us competition & even those don't when it counts to be honestQuote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
NDSU athletics endowment $70 mil
WIU less then $1 mil
Exactly. People act as if a decision to go CUSA2.0 only means that we play those teams in the CUSA. If we were to make that move we would also have additional opportunities to play other teams that would drive our rankings higher. Every year we'd have the opportunity to play 2-3 other FBS OOC games along with our conference games. Don't forget about potential conference mates Liberty (Sagarin #60) and SHSU (Sagarin #98). Not to mention that during that comparison we don't get to play the Montana teams annually. In fact we don't have any currently scheduled games with them anytime in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
Talk about moving the goalposts...Quote:
Originally Posted by NDSUstudent
I was responding to the claim any FBS schedule is better than any FCS, which is most definitely not true. People want fan engagement, what do you think the average fan is going to think once the novelty of "FBS!!!!" wears off and they realize most of the teams we play are worse than what we have now. You want a new Great West conference, great. That was a regional group of like minded schools. Who is going to come with us this time?
All I'm saying is reality probably won't meet your expectation. You can dream up the best case scenario all you want, just realize we aren't going to get that.
Nice writeup by Kolpack on the topic. Great title too
https://twitter.com/KolpackInForum/s...Cz2cOTl80qAAAA
But I’d say timing is much bigger than geography. Patience is the word right now. The sooner the NCAA dust settles, the sooner there will be movement.
The dust is nowhere near settled now and James Madison and SHSU moved up.
Literally no one is saying that. Go take that message to the other ND university - they just show up and expect everyone to bow to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
You don't have a track record like NDSU does by disrespecting your peers/opponents like that. Respect all, fear none. Bring on the competition.
Idk, this just sounds like the "Idaho" plan. If/when we jump, we need to know we're not paying for a round-trip ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by Professorbum
Apples and OrangesQuote:
Originally Posted by MWC
NDSU is in a different class entirely than JMU and SHU, both as CFB power and as an academic institution. It stands out on these fronts even within the MVFC, arguably the best in FCS
NDSU shouldn't settle for flank steak when it deserves tenderloin
You believe regional was 2 Dakota Schools, 1 Colorado School, 1 Utah School and 2 California Schools? That was as much of a group of misfits as CUSA. Only SDSU came with us last time. If SDSU agreed to come with us this time would it convince you to take a shot at CUSA? The novelty of FBS will wear off no matter what conference we're in if we aren't committed to being successful. If we are content being mediocre in FBS and don't aspire to bigger things than fans will leave. On the flip side, many fans feel like staying FCS is waving the white flag and not aspiring to bigger things now. Hence the reason why many are choosing to spend their time and money on other endeavors rather than attending Bison Football games on Saturday. Expectations are not being met currently for a lot of fans. Not in on field performance but in terms of value for their time and money. That's an issue. FBS isn't the only possible answer to that but it is and will be part of the conversation as long as we remain FCS.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
I don't think NDSU should settle..I just see a bit of excuse making..Location, jealousy, fear of playing NDSU, turmoil in the NCAA..etc..
I think NDSU could do well moving up. I am not sure there is as much desire to do so as you see on a message board.
You are correct in a sense, as I don’t think the previous president was interested in FBS. You can tell from stuff he said in his exit interview with McFeely. I don’t know about the new president yet, but the point is, the landscape right now is so uncertain that its “wait and see” at this point. Beyond the fans, I get a strong sense that the program wants it. We’ll find out, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
You yourself said in a previous post that if the MWC wanted NDSU, geography is not an issue. My prediction is that the MWC won’t get a chance to add NDSU ;). Of course, if I’m wrong, I’ll come back and own it.
I'm on record multiple times saying I wanted a group of midwest schools to become CUSA-North division in the recent alignment, and that while more is better I'm ok with just NDSU/SDSU jumping together. Really not sure what more I can do to say I support an FBS *as long as it has a good chance of success*. If the rumors of CUSA's finances are true they're a total dumpster fire and will probably collapse just like the WAC did a decade ago. I also understand that conference membership is so much more than just having a good football team, which some seem to have trouble seeing.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
Geography would not be an issue with the MW..It is a pretty spread out league already..However, there other factors that would be an issue. It is all stuff that could be worked out but the MW is not desperate and not of a mind to grab new members just to add. You would have to pay dearly to be football only. You probably won't have the votes for a full membership. You would no longer be on ESPN. Almost every football game is televised but most of them are played at night. Because the MW TV deals are primarily predicated on providing content for open time slots, your road games would likely start at 10 pm your time. Your home games would almost certainly start later to fill the slots the providers want. Just a lot of stuff to consider.
You don't add anything the conference doesn't already have so your pitch would likely have to have several strong concessions on your end. The conference has never taken any school directly from FCS. I am not saying it can't be done but nothing about this will be easy..
Getting the AAC will be just as tough but they are at least in an expanding mood..Better chance there.
Shocking development: college sports revolves around geography, even long before Joe Biden started in Politics.Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoRepsTheLurker
If I'm understanding correctly, you would be in favor of NDSU/SDSU joining CUSA together but not NDSU alone? I'm not disparaging that opinion just want to make sure I'm clear. I think for most of us fans we are somewhere around that general area as well. I believe that SDSU going with us would give us some protection in the event that CUSA falls apart as we would have a travel partner to band together with to find a new conference. I can definitely understand that logic. However, I believe that in terms of readiness to move, SDSU is likely 5 years and maybe even closer to 10 years away from being ready and/or willing to move. Weighing that into the equation, I would be willing to take the chance of moving alone but not necessarily in all circumstances. In order of my preference:Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
1. Move alone to MWC or AAC as all sports or football only members
2. Move alone to MAC as all sports or football only members
3. Move with SDSU (or other regional partners) to the MWC or AAC
4. Move with SDSU (or other regional partners) to the MAC
5. Move with SDSU (or other regional partners) to CUSA
6. Stay FCS and use funds that would have been put towards FBS on growing basketball programs
7. Move with SDSU (or other regional partners) to Independent Status (if possible)
8. Move alone to CUSA as football only member
9. Move alone to CUSA as all sports member
10. Stay in FCS and change little to nothing
Agreed on all fronts. The 10 pm kickoffs make me nervous. AAC or bust. Lots of fan-forum naysayers out there but most of them are clueless about what really matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by MWC
The former president was interviewed on 1660, and MM wrote something off that that got all the haters titillated, but that's how he makes a living. If anyone happened to catch the new president on 1660 - during the baseball game - I think he gave good cause for optimism, but like I said, lots up in there air right now in the NCAA. Wouldn't be shocked if CUSA doesn't survive as an FBS conference. I give it 50/50 ...
My opinion of CUSA has dramatically dropped the last few months. At the start of this realignment I would have liked 5-7 midwest schools to go CUSA but would be ok with just the xDSUs. Right now I wouldn't touch CUSA with a 10 foot pole. They're complete trash and IMO won't survive as an FBS conference if WKU and Mid Tenn leave. Since a list is apparently the thing to do now:Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
1. NCAA admits reality and splits D1 football into 3 subdivisions. Pro feeder league, competitive college, and "hey, did you know we have football?" We'd be in the middle tier with most of the G5 and upper 1/4th-ish of the FCS.
2. NCAA enforces its own existing rules about the 15k FBS attendance. Around 20 solid programs rejoin FCS and all complaints about the championship being watered down end.
3. 5-12 midwest schools join/form an FBS conference. Don't really care which as long as we go as a group.
4. NDSU/SDSU to the MAC. I know this isn't perfect for football but it is a step up and we're actually a great culture fit with the MAC other than enrollment size. Geography isn't that bad. MAC basketball might be enough to entice SDSU to come with.
5. NDSU/SDSU to the MWC. I almost didn't even list this as I think it's effectively impossible.
6. Stay FCS and see what happens. WAC is brewing something that's worth watching.
7. Basically anything else. Going alone or indy is failure. Football affiliate only invite isn't coming from anyone. AAC or Sunbelt just isn't going to happen. CUSA has a high chance of collapsing.
One thing that never gets mentioned is that NDSU would have one of the lowest enrollments of any public school in FBS. We're tiny but punch way above our weight in football. Enrollment's dropped every year since our peak in 2014 and we're about half the typical G5 public. If you want an FBS conference to notice you get the enrollment up and start winning in MBB.
I've stayed out of this mess, but this is a good list. #6 needs to have more attention IMMEDIATELY if we aspire to the FBS. We need to be building our basketball (men's and women's) exposure to be considered for an FBS conference to overcome the geography hurdle. Taper mentioned this, as well. I'm hoping the new president can lead us in this direction. There needs to be a complete change in how we approach basketball, and it starts with scheduling. Unfortunately, I have zero confidence in Richman and ML to get this done.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigLakeBison
This is exactly how I see things also.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
To extend an earlier analogy:
- MWC/AAC are ribeye. AAC is a half step lower, and less likely to happen
- MAC/SBC are flank steak. MAC makes more sense, and more likely.
- MVFC is pretty good hamburger
- CUSA/Indy is pig slop, and could ruin the program
Coldpack is a dumbass.
Geography DONT MEAN SHIT.
SO San Diego State would FLY to Fargo every OTHER YEAR
they would normally fly to Wyoming or Colorado State....so what is 1-1.5 hours. more fucking hour In a plane?
I think the lists allow people to provide some nuance and not deal solely in absolutes. I think many of us are close. We differ in how we see things playing out outside of NDSU control and that’s fine. But I think it helps illustrate that staying FCS is low on most all of our lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by taper
Basketball scheduling is the first thing that increased funding should be used for. Bringing in better ooc opponents would do wonders for attendance and enthusiasm. That takes money. I’m not a huge Richman fan but that situation will likely work itself out over time. If our scheduling improves, he will need to improve or they will be looking for someone new.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSBisonFan
Common sense is all it takes to understand the importance of geography from professional sports to college to high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Chapo
MWC is about as likely to happen as a BIG10 invite, none. It would've been done a long time ago.